Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

[reddragon7]

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

@BeeCucumber - following your argument, having children will therefore become a privilege of the very wealthy. What does this mean for future generations of our society?

The child craves the mother if that's who they are most familiar with

I rathe suspect that the innate caring differences between male and female are tiny.

Look at it this way - given the intense programming that young girls receive to take the caring role , isn't it surprising to you just how many don't ? Despite being trained from birth so many women reject that caring role ?

I absolutely take seriously the view of a self-proclaimed student of child psychology, who can’t spell psychology.

Both women and men can be caregivers. Women are socialised into this role … they are taught how to be care givers. Girls play with dolls from childhood for example. They get praised for looking after siblings. Are offered babysitting jobs etc.

These expectations of children have been changing for sometime, and will continue to do so.

Once a baby is no longer being exclusively breast fed , there is no biological reason for the mother to be the sole primary caregiver. Care can be shared.

Everyone is different and circumstances are different.

I wouldn’t have picked a partner who wouldn’t support us as a family - for me that’s not money but time, and parenting and supporting me in working. We work together.

My husband also had a very hands on father, so it’s normalised for him to pick up our children, clean a house etc the male role model in his upbringing took on a high % of the care. His father wanted to be present as does my husband. He has never missed a play, sports day & took time off to help with poorly children.

My friend has no interest in working, her husband is ill with stress and the children are now 17 & 19 she still won’t return to work as it’s been to long now and she enjoys the life she has - but her husband is sacrificing himself to carry on. Even after a recent heart scare.

The one thing i still see is around pay, recently heard in a conversation well men should be paid more as they look after the family….that shocked me - we are doing the same role in work.

Can you point to the peer reviewed scientific evidence that women are better care givers?

Because you seem to think you saying a think makes it so

The still face experiment shows children have attachments to their caregivers and get distressed when they don’t respond.

This study was origninally done with mothers of babies. But it’s the same outcome when done with dads…

What a pile of absolute rubbish.

Not all men want to be the sole breadwinner. Why should they have to shoulder that burden if they don't want to, simply in order to give women more choice.

Women are perfectly capable of contributing financially on a 50/50 basis. Why on earth would you think otherwise? Many women are the main breadwinners. Many more like to retain their financial independence. Are you unaware of this?

Men are perfectly capable of caring for small children. They are also perfectly capable of doing their fair share of domestic tasks. Why do you assume that women will inevitably take on most of this work?

Many women don't want to be stuck at home with small children, and they don't want to be seen by society as the default caregivers. They want grown up relationships with capable adults who share all aspects of adult life between them.

I do think though that a parent (male or female) who chooses to be a SAHP should not be looked down on.

I loved being a SAHM and even now with teenagers I feel they would benefit from a parent being home more.

I think there is an increasing pressure to get parents 'back to work' as soon as possible but whilst parents who want to go 'back to work' should be supported, staying at home to look after your children is not a bad thing.

I actually agree with you OP. I feel now women get the worst deal, expected to be the main parent and equally contribute financially as well. What's worst is the whole financial independence thing and having separate money, it's all very transactional. What's the point of even being in a relationship if you split the bills and count the pennies like your flatmates.

I think it's a case of affordability and what people are willing to sacrifice. There's also lots of 'broken' families and dads not around.
I think it's amazing to have a mum at home and dad out working. Don't most mums want more time with kids and say kids are their best decision..

When I say affordability I mean most prob could afford on one salary but would need to sacrifice the expensive phones, holidays, cars on finance etc

Men who are the breadwinner have lower happiness levels and more health problems. The higher the difference between their wage and their partners the harder the impact on them

Women however are physiologically happier when they earn more and it doesn't have the same impact on their health. However their happiness scores drop if they earn a lot lower

Therefore scientifically the best route to happiness for both and good health for the man is for a couple to earn fairly equal wages.

Haha I knew this would be shite after I read the few couples of lines

Blimey OP if you find this curious just wait until you learn about lesbians.

What about men? Some men would prefer to be at home with the kids whilst their partner supports the family .
The fact is most couples need both partners to work for financial reasons. Most domestic tasks should NOT fall to women. They should be divided equally. Women are forced into doing more by lazy men who don’t step up.
If one parent of either sex wants to be at home full time and the couple can afford it, great. It should be something that makes both happy and works for the family. Many women enjoy working and find stimulation from being out in the world , even if the money is not needed.

Totally agree with you OP. I didn't have children to palm them off to strange women with maybe very different values to mine while I went to do my pointless office job.

I'm a home maker and wife and I despise that society looks down on that.

What women lack is CHOICE for either paid employment or house wife. To be honest though, both options tend to be demonised. Women can never do the right thing.

Maybe train and do something meaningful, rather than a “pointless office job’? Interesting, valuable jobs are also perfectly compatible with raising a child.

I don’t think anything anyone says is going to help you out of your rigid, archaic framework.

Statistically women are the greatest caregivers by a long way. They also dominate the caring and nurturing roles such as medicine, teaching, childcare and health care.
Males and females are different in many ways. Look at the crime statistics and the violence and it isn’t all about socialisation. To pretend it is misses a very big point. Women do tend to be kinder, more thoughtful, more caring rather than raping murdering and starting wars and yes this should be valued more and women should have more choices. Mothering is not valued enough.

Quite, you’re even demonising women who go to work in your own post… 🤦‍♀️

It’s very hard to work in most jobs when you have a child to pick up and drop off. You have to be home to look after them when school finishes. If they are sick you can’t take time off, etc.
My OH and I have the same degree in the same subject. He concentrated on building a career and became a high earner. I concentrated on the children and once they were at school I word part time in roles which would allow me to be there when they were home. That meant doing jobs I didn’t enjoy for poor pay. I didn’t want a high flying career working 70 hours a week like my husband.
Someone needs to be there for the kids when they are at home or sick. I didn’t want a nursery or a stranger bringing up
my children.

What about same sex parents? Should couples with two mothers not be able to work, and with two fathers not be able to raise their children?

If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

Only if the man doesn't do his fair share.

True, lots don't, but I'd argue that - given what PPs have already mentioned about women working being a better way to protect themselves financially/in terms of career - we'd be better off refusing to accept men not pulling their weight rather than insisting it can't be changed so women need to stay at home.

I imagine the thought of a male couple managing to bring up a family will blow her mind even more

This is the point though, we haven't really progressed much. Women now just do both things, raise children and have jobs 🤷‍♀️ we are all fooled if we think otherwise