Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

[reddragon7]

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

I’m sorry but you’ve got to either be in a cult or from a culture where women are regarded as possessions to look after and service men.

Your husband doesn’t have the right to sex, even if you keep his house clean and raise his children for him.

I meant to simply that’s one advantage for men in marriage, it’s an advantage for women too, but I have found that men normally chase sex more.

I find it both astounding and depressing that a 20 something woman has actually written that if a woman is financially provided for that "in return, the man has the right to sex."

Good grief.

Think about what that means.

You keep making statements like that flippantly and don't seem to understand what they actually mean in reality.

If a man is a breadwinner, he has a right to sex with his wife. A right, you say. People asked you to clarify and you reiterated that yes you believe it's a "right" the man has in that situation.

It baffles me you can't see how that line of thinking goes...

I meant to simply that’s one advantage for men in marriage, it’s an advantage for women too, but I have found that men normally chase sex more

You didn't though, or you'd have said it was an advantage. You said, and clarified, that you believe it's a 'right'.

She thinks men that sex is a benefit men automatically gain from marriage. And then women should keep the home in return. And that this set up would be beneficial to women despite... Everything we know. Literally everything.

She is deluded, this is not an argument worth having!

Thank you for clarifying, OP. It took us a while to get there but we did in the end.

Essentially, you don't see marriage as an equal partnership. You see it as a kind of glorified prostitution contract with a bit of domestic servitude and maybe some babies thrown in. The woman gets the right to lifelong financial security. The man gets the right to sex, a clean house, meals cooked and kids taken care of.

You have kind of made a nod to the notion of consent by suggesting that there would have to be some agreement. But you have also referred to these as rights on both sides of the deal. I find that quite chilling tbh.

If you want to sign up for that kind of dreadful contract, then by all means, feel free, but please don't attempt to impose it on the rest of us.

I used the term right, but meant it’s a benefit as sex is to enjoy between married couples exclusively.

Oh and when you spout the shit about men having a right to sex on tap and a clean home/ food they enjoy/ no child commitments in return for providing an income for his wife...

That's it. That's why we don't want trad gender roles, right there 👆

No man has the right to sex with me, not even my husband. No man's intellect is worth more than mine. I'm not spending years polishing a toilet bowl in return for my husband's wage, thanks very much all the same. Crack on if it makes you happy but put a little bit of thought into why the vast majority of women might not be as keen

@reddragon7 Where did this deep rooted belief that men should be the providers and women should look after (have sex with) them come from. I can only guess it came from the men in your life.

A marriage is an equal partnership and women and men can have whatever roles they want within in. What you’re talking about is far from that though. I hope you realise that at some point, for your sake.

Oh dear, I think this is a huge misunderstanding. I should’ve typed that men get the benefit of sex. And keeping the home clean is simply normal, if someone is at home all day, whilst the other half works all day.

@reddragon7

I used the term right, but meant it’s a benefit as sex is to enjoy between married couples exclusively.

Then you used the term 'right' completely incorrectly.

It's clear you did mean 'right' though tbh. You think if a man financially provides for his wife, he is entitled to sex.

I hope you aren't in a position of influence over young women and girls considering this point of view.

If you don't get a benefit from sex too, it's all wrong. It's not a transaction. Sex in exchange for not having to work???

Oh dear, I think this is a huge misunderstanding. I should’ve typed that men get the benefit of sex.

Nobody is misunderstanding, your opinion is very clear. It's just archaic and puts women in a vulnerable position which is exactly what you claim you don't like...

Sex isn't a benefit exclusive to men or to marriage. It isn't something men do to women and women do for men.

And it certainly isn't a right. For anyone.

I should’ve typed that men get the benefit of sex

And women get the chore of it...?

Don’t forget it’s a one way contract as well- at least in the UK

the man and his money can walk away at any point, legally he does not have to continue financially supporting her. Spousal maintenance no longer exists.

she, however, still has the kids and the wifework, with no financial resources or ability to work.

that is one of the millions of reasons gender roles are not to women’s advantage.

I think the answer to this is better maternity leave and pay so women can stay at home longer and still feel financially stable.

I agree it should be less taboo and looked down upon to stay at home.

Ffs it’s not “taboo” to stay at home. Millions do it.

as long as both parties know what they’re getting into and agree, and as long as the woman knows how vulnerable she is doing so.

Argh I'm trying not to engage too much with this nonsense, but the idea that women want something as archaic and damaging as the OPs suggestion is really frustrating. And then to keep trying to convince other women that actually, despite generations of evidence to the contrary, it's a very good idea... Mind exploding!!!

OP, don't teach your children this, it is really wrong!

Come back on here in 3-5 years time and see if you still feel like your career's not been impacted.....There's a reason why the gender pay gap still exists.

Well, I guess she is at least released from the obligation to provide sex if they split. 🙄

No no we don't misunderstand

You want to have a man who can afford to keep you at home all day cleaning, cooking and looking after the children and providing sex for him when he gets home

And you think because you want that it automatically makes it a 'traditional gender role' that more of us should aspire to based on some outdated science that's been debunked

You totally ignore the fact that it makes men and women unhappy, makes men ill, makes women more vulnerable to domestic abuse and is in no way, in the UK, representative of a tradional gender role outside of the 1940s to 70s when a large number of women forced into this postion were on amphetamines or antidepressants

And you only think married hetrosexual women deserve this and homosexual or unmarried couples don't deserve this.

You have started a Mumsnet thread about it to try and convince people. I hope that’s because you don’t feel confident preaching this shite IRL.

I am also wondering if perhaps your are a man with particular values who wants to tell a female audience what a good idea the ‘trad wife’ role is. The idea that a woman would speak about being paid out of their husbands pay packet for sex (& yes, that is what you are saying) is bloody terrifying.

It's the norm for women to either stay home or work part time but still be the go to parent.

It isn't taboo at all.

All of your beliefs, all of them, seek to set women back generations. It would undo all of our work towards equality. A state we’re still nowhere near.

I can’t get past you believing ‘men have a right to sex’.

Like everything so far, you’ve backtracked on that phrase and made out it wasn’t really what you meant, it was a semantic issue.

Nonsense.

I’m out. Enjoy your exploitative marriage, when you get there. Your fetishised ‘trad wife’ naivety is depressing.

No, I do not mean they have to right to sex whenever, damn - I phrased it in such a controversial way. I was meant to say, sex is a benefit both in a marriage, but I feel men benefit more, as they tend to chase sex more (again, opinion). And just just man is financially providing, this doesn’t mean he’s devoid of childcare and domestic chores.