Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Why are gender roles viewed negatively?

866 replies

reddragon7 · 04/04/2023 20:32

I read and see so many threads and real life examples, where men and women feel the need to be “equal.” The man about to become a father, refuses to become the main earner, even when he has the means, and insists that his wife also work and contribute financially. Doesn’t this seem imbalanced to anyone, and that society is being brainwashed to accept this as the norm.

I have nothing against a woman wishing to work post-children, however, I don’t understand why society and some men put pressure on their wives to work, if she would rather stay home with the children. This has now become and expectation. If a woman is contributing financially, it is never really 50/50, as she is also doing most of the domestic work.

People condemn gender roles as though they are ancient, but seem to forget that, biologically and psychologically, women are naturally better caregivers to children. They are the ones pregnant, produce all these hormones, and better equipped to raise a child than a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but as a general fact, people seem to ignore this.

In view of all this, I believe more men should offer to be financial providers, giving women the option to not work after children, as childcare costs aren’t exactly saving them much anyway. Otherwise, it feels we are moving away from our gender roles, which may actually be more helpful in a marriage, than people make out.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
ShodanLives · 05/04/2023 18:48

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 18:18

I am only talking about dynamics in heterosexual marriages.

Seems a bit unfair. Straight women don't have to work their whole married lives but lesbians don't get that option.

But then your whole premise is unfair so...

Dacadactyl · 05/04/2023 18:49

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/04/2023 18:45

Or maybe she is struggling to find a man who is willing to take on his side of the bargain in the absence of any clear benefits to himself?

Depends on your culture and religion though. If there is the expectation of no sex before marriage etc, the man is benefitting from having a wife in that respect. He also benefits from having a caregiver for his children and for someone to look after the home.

If both parties are in agreement then there's no issue.

SouthLondonMum22 · 05/04/2023 18:49

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 18:43

It’s an open floor discussion, and I like knowing others perspectives - I didn’t expect people to be outraged basically 😂 people were even shocked at original post.

What I find shocking is believing that women should be able to demand to be financially supported. I don't find it shocking at all that you believe in gender roles, unfortunately I come across that often.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 18:51

Dacadactyl · 05/04/2023 18:49

Depends on your culture and religion though. If there is the expectation of no sex before marriage etc, the man is benefitting from having a wife in that respect. He also benefits from having a caregiver for his children and for someone to look after the home.

If both parties are in agreement then there's no issue.

I don’t believe in sex before marriage either.

OP posts:
reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 18:52

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/04/2023 18:43

So what "rights" would you be offering up to the man in this situation?

If the wife gets the right to relax at home and work as much or as little as she pleases, what rights does the man get in return for providing this financial sponsorship? What's the deal, exactly?

Or do you think women are the only ones who should gain extra rights on marriage? If so, can you explain why you think that's fair?

Well, I would be happy to be homemaker in return. Simple

OP posts:
MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/04/2023 18:54

Dacadactyl · 05/04/2023 18:49

Depends on your culture and religion though. If there is the expectation of no sex before marriage etc, the man is benefitting from having a wife in that respect. He also benefits from having a caregiver for his children and for someone to look after the home.

If both parties are in agreement then there's no issue.

Yes, there is no issue if both parties are in agreement. But the OP is not talking about agreements, she is talking about rights.

So if the woman has the right to be supported financially, does that mean that the man has a right to sex whenever he wants it? A right to expect that his wife will take on full responsibility for any children, regardless of whether she chooses to work or not? A right to expect that she will take care of all the household chores?

I presume there is something in it for him, otherwise why would he sign up for it. I'm curious to know from the OP whether the rights that she envisages are only one way.

ShodanLives · 05/04/2023 18:57

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 18:36

I guess I always find it intriguing. My family are not from a British background, so I come from a background where it is normal for traditional set ups and realised it’s very rare, or even seen as odd in the UK. I guess to me, it seemed fair, as it allows the woman the relax in her home and not have financial pressure. And in my experience, women have enjoyed this better.

Just to add, my parents have not ingrained this into me. As we have all been given a good education and are working professionals among my siblings. So they like that I have my own career. Even I held the view that modern roles are better, up until a a few years ago, I realised I am strongly in favour of traditional roles, whilst retaining the woman’s right to work.

I feel it gives women the option to work or stay at home, without financial pressure.

Yes because societies where sex before marriage is forbidden and traditional gender roles are pushed historically have been wonderful for women...

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/04/2023 18:58

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 18:52

Well, I would be happy to be homemaker in return. Simple

OK, so are you saying that you think married men have the right to expect their wives to fulfil the homemaker role? Even if they choose to work, which you have acknowledged they may want to do?

Or is this something that should be agreed between the couple, unlike the financial support over which you regard as the wife's right?

If a woman wasn't willing to take on the burden of the domestic load, either because she was working or simply because she didn't fancy it, would that be fair on the man if he was still expected to provide for her?

Weefreetiffany · 05/04/2023 18:59

I read a study about co regulation, where a baby was able to match its heart rate to its mother, and viceversa. Only with the mother, not any other carers. So there is a value in that bond. Why cant women just say they prefer the status and safety work gives them as an individual, and they don’t want to/can’t rely on a “partner” in the current system? Rather than say it doesn’t matter who does the caring.

me and DH are equal partners who have decided that what makes sense right now if for me to be a SAHP. A lot of people in our lives are scornful of this, because they have more room-mates style life and can’t see that we’re a team and our quality of life and family life is so much better this way. When it makes sense for our family I will retrain and go back to work.

children are exceptionally adaptable and will adjust to whatever circumstances they find themselves in. But it’s delusional to think a 3-10 year old leaving the house and their parents from 8am-6pm five days a week is experiencing the same quality of life and upbringing as a child in a home with a stay at home parent or part time working parent.

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:01

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 05/04/2023 18:54

Yes, there is no issue if both parties are in agreement. But the OP is not talking about agreements, she is talking about rights.

So if the woman has the right to be supported financially, does that mean that the man has a right to sex whenever he wants it? A right to expect that his wife will take on full responsibility for any children, regardless of whether she chooses to work or not? A right to expect that she will take care of all the household chores?

I presume there is something in it for him, otherwise why would he sign up for it. I'm curious to know from the OP whether the rights that she envisages are only one way.

I guess I feel a woman having that right makes her more secure in marriage, as she also has the choice have her own income.

I think, in return, the man has the right to sex, as I don’t believe in sex before marriage anyway. But not whenever he wants, but that would be in agreement somewhat. As it wouldn’t allowed before marriage, so that way, pregnancy would be more protected in the marriage.

I also think he has the right to a nice home and good food. Also the right to childcare, again this has to still be agreed between the two. If the woman works whilst having children, I think the man should step in more towards childcare and home etc. but financially, if the woman doesn’t need to contribute, then I don’t think there should be the obligation - unless she wants to- which I presume most women would anyway

OP posts:
digshallow · 05/04/2023 19:03

in return, the man has the right to sex

What the fuck is wrong with you? Beginning to think this is a wind up thread by a single teenager, not anyone with actual relationship and parental experience.

Lcb123 · 05/04/2023 19:03

reddragon7 · 04/04/2023 21:15

I’m with you. Women should have the option to want to raise their child full time too.

And so should men. Woman aren’t innately there for child rearing

SittingNextToIt · 05/04/2023 19:03

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 18:51

I don’t believe in sex before marriage either.

Oh, I think now we are beginning to get somewhere. I strongly suspect #TradWife, religious background - and something cult like.

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:04

SittingNextToIt · 05/04/2023 19:03

Oh, I think now we are beginning to get somewhere. I strongly suspect #TradWife, religious background - and something cult like.

No sex before marriage is a whole other topic, regardless of religion or culture

OP posts:
TearsforBeers · 05/04/2023 19:04

in return, the man has the right to sex

Just no.
No man ever has the right to sex.

SittingNextToIt · 05/04/2023 19:04

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:01

I guess I feel a woman having that right makes her more secure in marriage, as she also has the choice have her own income.

I think, in return, the man has the right to sex, as I don’t believe in sex before marriage anyway. But not whenever he wants, but that would be in agreement somewhat. As it wouldn’t allowed before marriage, so that way, pregnancy would be more protected in the marriage.

I also think he has the right to a nice home and good food. Also the right to childcare, again this has to still be agreed between the two. If the woman works whilst having children, I think the man should step in more towards childcare and home etc. but financially, if the woman doesn’t need to contribute, then I don’t think there should be the obligation - unless she wants to- which I presume most women would anyway

Right okay.

man’s right to 1) sex 2) childcare 3) nice home

this is TRADWIFE stuff. Back off people. It’s a whole cult.

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:05

TearsforBeers · 05/04/2023 19:04

in return, the man has the right to sex

Just no.
No man ever has the right to sex.

I only said this before I don’t believe in sex before marriage. So I would only allow it after marriage basically

OP posts:
reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:06

digshallow · 05/04/2023 19:03

in return, the man has the right to sex

What the fuck is wrong with you? Beginning to think this is a wind up thread by a single teenager, not anyone with actual relationship and parental experience.

Jeez - basically because I would only allow sex after marriage anyway, so I would feel more secure that way as marriage would then protect any pregnancies etc

OP posts:
reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:07

SittingNextToIt · 05/04/2023 19:04

Right okay.

man’s right to 1) sex 2) childcare 3) nice home

this is TRADWIFE stuff. Back off people. It’s a whole cult.

Jeez no, no cult 😂

OP posts:
digshallow · 05/04/2023 19:08

Jeez - basically because I would only allow sex after marriage anyway, so I would feel more secure that way as marriage would then protect any pregnancies etc

Just because a man (supposedly) waits until he marries a woman doesn't then mean he has a right to sex. You have a lot of growing up to do and I worry for the marriage you will walk into with these ignorant opinions.

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:09

TearsforBeers · 05/04/2023 19:04

in return, the man has the right to sex

Just no.
No man ever has the right to sex.

I think the term “right” has triggered everyone, I just mean this is a benefit men gain from marriage. Any couple, exclusively have sex with each other in a marriage anyway.

OP posts:
SouthLondonMum22 · 05/04/2023 19:14

Weefreetiffany · 05/04/2023 18:59

I read a study about co regulation, where a baby was able to match its heart rate to its mother, and viceversa. Only with the mother, not any other carers. So there is a value in that bond. Why cant women just say they prefer the status and safety work gives them as an individual, and they don’t want to/can’t rely on a “partner” in the current system? Rather than say it doesn’t matter who does the caring.

me and DH are equal partners who have decided that what makes sense right now if for me to be a SAHP. A lot of people in our lives are scornful of this, because they have more room-mates style life and can’t see that we’re a team and our quality of life and family life is so much better this way. When it makes sense for our family I will retrain and go back to work.

children are exceptionally adaptable and will adjust to whatever circumstances they find themselves in. But it’s delusional to think a 3-10 year old leaving the house and their parents from 8am-6pm five days a week is experiencing the same quality of life and upbringing as a child in a home with a stay at home parent or part time working parent.

Because it's possible to work full time and still have an amazing bond with your baby. My baby is fond of his keyworker but it's different when it comes to me AND my husband.

I don't think I need to give up my career for my baby to have a good quality of life and upbringing. I'd say it's better because we both work for multiple reasons.

CattySam · 05/04/2023 19:15

@reddragon7

Are you married then? Did you pick your husband? How did you make sure he was someone who was able financially and wanted you to be the primary caregiver?

Also, your throwaway comments about sex are very telling.

monsteramunch · 05/04/2023 19:15

I think, in return, the man has the right to sex

It's terrifying you think anyone, male or female, has "the right to sex".

JFC.

I think the term “right” has triggered everyone, I just mean this is a benefit men gain from marriage.

In a genuinely happy, healthy relationship both partners 'benefit' from the opportunity to have a happy, healthy sex life. It still isn't a 'right'.

You seem to think sex is something women give to men and something men do to woman. The fact you've labelled it a benefit 'men gain from marriage' instead of something that's an equal benefit to both parties.

Really dysfunctional approach to the dynamics around sex and consent.

reddragon7 · 05/04/2023 19:19

monsteramunch · 05/04/2023 19:15

I think, in return, the man has the right to sex

It's terrifying you think anyone, male or female, has "the right to sex".

JFC.

I think the term “right” has triggered everyone, I just mean this is a benefit men gain from marriage.

In a genuinely happy, healthy relationship both partners 'benefit' from the opportunity to have a happy, healthy sex life. It still isn't a 'right'.

You seem to think sex is something women give to men and something men do to woman. The fact you've labelled it a benefit 'men gain from marriage' instead of something that's an equal benefit to both parties.

Really dysfunctional approach to the dynamics around sex and consent.

I just meant to someone who doesn’t believe in sex before marriage, I would agree this is a benefit for men in marriage. Of course, it’s a benefit for both - but in my experience, I found that men chase sex more (my opinion).

OP posts: