Is my husband right? Have we totally failed our son?

[givingupmum]

My son is 3 years and 5 months old, he is a difficult child. He has a lot of tantrums, he's very strong willed and kicks off easily and unfortunately one issue we have had with him is that he can be violent towards us. He went through biting stage, hitting stage etc and a very long phase of deliberately using his nails to scratch us which was horrible. He did it a lot. We got through all of these stages but he has moments where he will do them, mainly when he has a tantrum and totally loses control. We've been working on it, we had a baby recently which has caused some regression in his behaviour. We've had a few incidents lately of him being violent to us and he is quite volatile at the moment, we're constantly waiting for the next freak out.

As an aside he really can be a lovely boy. He does just have too many moments. I'm not blind to his flaws, I'm the main at home parent so I deal with the worst of it. Tonight my husband was putting him to bed and out of nowhere my son just started climbing all over him, when my husband said no he started trying to bite him and scratching him. My husband walked out and came downstairs and said that boy is vile, this behaviour is not normal, we've totally failed with him. He's a nasty piece of work.

I've totally had my moments where I've felt like this. It does make me so sad because I see other toddlers and kids his age and none of them seem to be like this, I don't have friends tell me how frequently their kids hurt them, it feels like it's just mine. But then I also see the progress, I see how much quicker he calms down, how he says sorry and that he loves us. I don't know if I'm being too soft. Is this totally abnormal? Is it time to consult a GP?

I don't want another toddler that hurts me. I don't want my baby to grow up seeing his brother do this and think it's ok. I feel really sad tonight.

This sounds absolutely perfect to me 👌 just keep doing what you're doing.

My only other piece of advice when you're leaving somewhere or you've got a difficult transition (for us it's often getting out the bath/shower) is to ask them how much longer they'd like (or do you want 3 or 5 minutes more?) and then set a timer on your phone for that amount of time and get them out when it goes off. It really helps remove you from the situation and my son certainly finds it far easier to deal with as it gives a bit of autonomy.

I was going to read all updates before commenting however I don’t feel like I need to after reading the above from you.

1. you’re only going to get peoples opinions here not facts because every parent is different
2. every child is different and different things will work for different children there is no one correct approach
3. you’ve started to find out what works for your child and I absolutely think you should stick with it especially as it’s your first instinct
4. the above makes you a wonderful caring parent and you should be proud of yourself
5. you and your husband need to be on the same page when it comes to this part of parenting so work on that
6. it may be worth asking the health visitor to come in and do an assessment to identify any signs of autism

@JussathoB ”it is not acceptable for your child to frequently hurt you and it’s important to prevent/reduce this”

The OP has done exactly that by being gentle in her own way and coming down to her sons level, soothing him calmly from his overwhelmed meltdown and cuddling him, he’s then listened to his mum explain what behaviours are unacceptable which has then lead to him saying sorry off his own back.

I haven't read the whole thread but I relate to your OP so so much

I have a son who is a year older and similar behaviour for last 2 yrs. The worst thing he ever did was push over the high chair when his tiny baby brother was in it. When that happened I felt like giving up. Like taking the baby and running away. My DH also says sometimes we are failing him, we weren't firm enough, we let him watch too much telly during lockdown etc.

When he started nursery he got put on an ASD referall pathway within 2 weeks. I didn't see it because he is also very affectionate and imaginative and I had stereotypes of asd in my head

The walking away thing really works. If he's safe letting him push his toys over and just walking away. The GP said to me he wants attention and he wants control and he gets those things through hitting and throwing etc so uou have to walk away which is obviously really hard especially when he's going for it.

It's so so hard. Now his language is better he is able to tell me when he's scared and turns out he's scared a lot of time...supermarket, an ad on telly, someone ringing the doorbell. A lot of the world makes him very nervous and unsure and cuddles and reassurance really work at diverting a tantrums.

U are not failing him. You are here getting advice and support. I promise you he is not doing this to hurt you. He just finds the world harder than some other kids. And you're his safe place.

You will be fine. He will be fine. He's got you x

I explained we can play more when we get home, and he can have a cuddle once baby is in the car seat if he is feeling sad. He said a quiet little ok and walked back to the car holding my hand.

I had a little cry at that. It's slow going but it's working. You're doing perfectly and you sound like a wonderful mum @givingupmum

Some of these answers are just deranged!

Who in their right mind would think it is ok for a 3 years old to be agressive towards parents, baby and dog? (Especially this often) Would you think it was still alright if that happened to you?

Why anyone think the husband is the problem? He acknowledges that something needs to change, he might doesn't use the right way to communicate it but we all been there under stress!

What is with people obsession here is with the dog? OP clearly understand the issues and the danger, why would you assume she leaves them unattended together?

Unfortunately the good posts will get lost in all these crap. Please get some help, start with the GP and go from there. Your boy will be absolutely fine, but it is not something that you achieve without help. It not your, your husband, the baby or the dogs fault! Every child is different and they have different needs!

My son was like this, very violent and would Hit other children too. It was incredibly stressful! They really can't control their emotions and he grew out of it once he started reception aged four. I used to get down to his level and give him hug when was really beside himself. We also used a sticker chart for good behaviour and they did this in school too. He was also not a fan of the dog so I always made sure the dog could escape to a safe place away from the children and i did not tolerate any unkind behaviour to him in anyway. D'S is now a lovely and funny (who still gets frustrated easily but isn't violent) 8 year old and the dog sleeps very happily at the end of his bed. They are best buddies.

nursery will flag up if they think there are any behavioural or sen concerns usually. If you have not had a child like this then it will seem totally alien and 'wrong' but for many it's a very normal stage. Hang on in there. In frustration I have definitely said some damning things about my children! But you feel bad for it and it passes! your husband might just need some reassurance that it's just a stage.

Rainbow tulips - sorry I don’t know how to put the reference on - my post was in response to the OP saying her child deliberately uses his nails to scratch his parents.
I have not advocated any harsh sanctions at all, I thought though that the other poster who talked about walking away etc was on the right lines.
Crying and shouting and having a tantrum is fairly regular at age 2/3 but I think deliberately and frequently hurting parents by biting or hitting or scratching is more serious.

So many good suggestions. But discipline is really…
Calm
Consistent
Having a ‘line’ - which is aggression. For a 3 year old it would be a firm ‘No Hitting’ said only once or twice.
Remove yourself from him and remove others from him when he is tantrum in or aggressive. This is quite important. He does not need your contact whilst he is in a disregulated state - if he is being violent as he will be able to continue to hurt you. This is the trickiest bit but the ability to be violent - to hit you or anyone has to be stopped immediately. If you need to put him in a playpen so be it. He cannot be able to continue to hit.
Wait until he is calm before offering a hug. Not to punish him, but he is unable to accept hugs or contact while he is hitting. Make sure he is safe and from a distance just be really calm of voice, don’t get into ‘arguments’, just say you love him, but no hitting. That’s it really.

Apart from that you can try and distract or deflect, avoid triggers.

I understand the norms for toddler behaviour and I agree with you that it’s not acceptable for a toddler to be physically hurting his parents, sibling or pet. I am inclined to think more is going on with this little lad.

However when you say “Your child needs love and reassurance and communication but NOT straight after deliberately hurting you” and “do nothing to reward this behaviour” I have to disagree that cuddling the child to reduce his stress is rewarding negative behaviour (it’s human contact with the person who loves him unconditionally and who is his safe place whilst he is overwhelmed) also the OP has noticed positive changes in her sons behaviour since starting this approach.

Struggling with this. Mothers do go to great lengths to demonstrate love and care for their child but I’m just not convinced that cuddling a child while he is attacking you is the best way of dealing with it.
I hope Op can get some professional help to move forwards with this.

If cuddling after attacking worked, he would not continue to attack. The OPs tactics are not working and her toddler is not seeing, hearing or being shown ‘the line’ which says hitting or hurting is bad when immediately during / after he is being cuddled without the ‘line’ being enforced even in tone of voice and language.

On a practical level I would cut his nails as short as possible.

But if shouting and punishments worked you could say the same. Nothing is going to be a magic cure and yes there may be more OP could do. She could possibly benefit from speaking to GP/hv, but she's made a great start and her approach HAS helped the situation somewhat. It's so hard dealing with this type of behaviour, but I think so many people expect young children to just be able to magically regulate their emotions. Or that they can punish them into it.

Please please don’t call your little 3 year old nasty peace of work. He is a little boy who hasn’t started to speak properly yet, can’t express what he wants and feels and also has new baby sibling. That is huge and what he needs from you and DH is love and support to deal with his emotions, not consequences. I get that it’s frustrating for you but I think you need to completely shift your thinking around him. No blame, firm boundaries yes but with love.

I really recommend Janet Lansbury’s book No Bad Kids: Toddler Discipline Without Shame. She also has a podcast Unruffled, where lots of parents with similar questions to yours write to her for help. She is amazing and it works. www.janetlansbury.com/podcast-audio/

I’ e been there with both my kids and I know that this age can be really challenging. You need to get your DH on board too. Good luck!

I second the book recommendation. And thanks for the podcast link @luggageandbags

You clearly didn't read my follow-up post. To recapitulate: my ex husband said something similar to me about our child. It was the start of a pattern of abuse towards our children. The first few times, he just said it about our child. Then he started saying it to our child. I have no idea whether the OP's husband would be the same, but don't give me your sarcasm.

Nobody is a perfect parent, but some are worse than others. And yes, he should have vented out of earshot. I have done it many times since being a single parent.

I understand why you might jump to conclusions and i empathise with you, but it's still not fair to judge other people and make them feel crappy for things they have done in the difficult world of parenting. It's harmful and can make people feel a lot of guilt for situations that are common.

I absolutely agree with you there. Which is why I thought your snide comment about awarding medals for perfect parenting to people who find other ways to express their frustration with their children was hurtful and unnecessary. But in real life, we would probably agree on more than we would disagree on (not least because we'd both be seeing the bigger picture). It's easy to pick on one thing when we're just seeing words on a screen.

Yep fair🤣. I just see some comments on mumsnet and think they are unrealistically narrow minded and assumed your comment might be one of them. My apologies!

The violence is a way of expressing how he feels, they all do it in different ways. Our son has always been a hitter, he goes through phases. He totally understands that it’s wrong now but sometimes he has no impulse control still. He’s so much better these days (it’s rare he hits now) and otherwise really well behaved. There are firm boundaries and immediate related consequences. He’s almost 4. He now actively comes to us to say he feels angry and we ask him how we can help him, this is usually to go and sit with him in his room while he lies on his bed. Sometimes he wants to read the books we have.

We have a couple of books, what do do when you feel like hitting, and a dealing with anger book and he actively wants to read them at bedtime and they have worked. Terminology is important and you have to work with him when he’s calm as this is when they learn rather than in the moment. Don’t be confrontational (shouting and sending him off by himself) as those things have no long term impact with behaviour change. He needs to be reassured that there’s nothing wrong with him and his feelings and that you love him regardless.

He’s absolutely not vile and you’ve not failed him. And I guarantee your friends will have some sort of tantrum related trouble with their kids! Guarantee it!

It could be adhd or autism. I would see a medical professional for advice even just to get it ruled out. You haven't failed your son, but not getting him help and support if he needs it would be letting him down.

Sounds like he is acting up on account of the new baby. He's trying to get a reaction any reaction and attention. He also wants to know if you still love him. Keep calm and don't get angry as hard as that is. Tell him you love him throughout the day not just when he's behaving well. Tell him you love him even when he is naughty. Encourage him to use his words. If he lashes out respond in a calm voice "hands are not for hitting, I can see you are angry. When you are ready tell me what's wrong with your words." Repeat calmly until he's done. Of course you can walk away but remain near and keep eye contact every so often. It's so hard but you are doing a good job. Stay consistent and he'll come good. Remember every toddler pushes their parents buttons but not every parent will tell you the stories x

Does he hurt other people eg nursery, grandparents, friends?

Also "teeth are not for biting people. When you are ready, tell me with your words." My DD screams and it winds me up something rotten so we have been using this tactic for a few weeks now and it works. Doesn't completely stop it but the incidents are becoming less often and its more bareable when they do happen!