Is my husband right? Have we totally failed our son?

[givingupmum]

My son is 3 years and 5 months old, he is a difficult child. He has a lot of tantrums, he's very strong willed and kicks off easily and unfortunately one issue we have had with him is that he can be violent towards us. He went through biting stage, hitting stage etc and a very long phase of deliberately using his nails to scratch us which was horrible. He did it a lot. We got through all of these stages but he has moments where he will do them, mainly when he has a tantrum and totally loses control. We've been working on it, we had a baby recently which has caused some regression in his behaviour. We've had a few incidents lately of him being violent to us and he is quite volatile at the moment, we're constantly waiting for the next freak out.

As an aside he really can be a lovely boy. He does just have too many moments. I'm not blind to his flaws, I'm the main at home parent so I deal with the worst of it. Tonight my husband was putting him to bed and out of nowhere my son just started climbing all over him, when my husband said no he started trying to bite him and scratching him. My husband walked out and came downstairs and said that boy is vile, this behaviour is not normal, we've totally failed with him. He's a nasty piece of work.

I've totally had my moments where I've felt like this. It does make me so sad because I see other toddlers and kids his age and none of them seem to be like this, I don't have friends tell me how frequently their kids hurt them, it feels like it's just mine. But then I also see the progress, I see how much quicker he calms down, how he says sorry and that he loves us. I don't know if I'm being too soft. Is this totally abnormal? Is it time to consult a GP?

I don't want another toddler that hurts me. I don't want my baby to grow up seeing his brother do this and think it's ok. I feel really sad tonight.

Do you mean physical chastisement as in smacking? because depending on which country the OP is in it may not be lawful at all

You do know they all go thru it possibly up to age 4..But it's not letting it get out of hand and actually disciplining it properly not just letting it go. Going thru a similar with our one yr old boy and one of our 1 year twins and went thru same with our now teens. It doesn't last long if you use distraction,discipline, fun play etc. Do not worry, take a step back, have a chat about how to deal differently with it and don't let the negative drown out the positives. 🙂

I aren't talking about smacking. I'm talking about actually parenting your child . Before social services have to
Do it or police . If you cannot parent a 3 year old youre in trouble .

Consequences don't have to mean a smack . But they have to mean something.

My kids are 26 and 30 . Eldest s autistic. Wouldn't have stood for this behaviour however. Children have to
Learn to
Function in the real
World where people do t cuddle them for being abusive dicks . So
MY advice is teach them not to be .

It isn’t normal with the kids I know. I’ve only known two toddlers who treated their parents like that and now they’re older they’ve both been diagnosed with autism.

Good luck OP sounds very hard. Do a lot of reading about SEN, and maybe speak to a child psychologist. Definitely don’t sit around waiting for him to grown out of it.

Every person has free will to choose how they behave, what their beliefs are etc.

Children like your DC make tgeir own choices. They are invariably not created by 'poor' parenting.

I would def speak to your doctor about his behaviour to see what help might be available.

Sending you and your DH big hugs, it's tough managing a difficult child esp cos you might want to hit them back but mustn't.

You do not need to be ‘tougher’ your son is trying to communicate and is only 3, you need to find out what’s going on with him (but please protect the dog and baby until you do!!!)

I would recommend getting an assessment on your son, (Autism, ADHD, everything including sensory issues and hearing tests) and in the meantime reading ‘setting limits with your strong willed child’ book.

All the best.

Go and get his eyes tested, my son was like this. Turns out he’s got a lazy eye

Children learn by repetition and consistency.

Stop! That hurts mummy/daddy/?
Be gentle.

Demonstrate being gentle.

Repeat.

Using redirection is very effective for this age group.

If you feel like hitting something you can hit your pillow, play dough or some other appropriate thing to hit. It’s not ok to hit people or pets, it hurts them.

He might not yet be in the stage of development where he understands or can see things from other people’s perspectives yet.

He’ll get there. It is something he needs to learn.

You and your husband have not failed him. It is challenging and exhausting dealing with difficult behaviours and strong willed temperaments. You and hubby do something nice for yourselves and acknowledge that this is hard. Give yourselves a break every now and then (even if it’s only a short break while ds and baby are asleep).

Sensory play can be very effective with calming children down. Play dough, clay, water play, fingerpaint, shaving cream, slime, sand (though I personally hate kinetic sand, it’s just awful to clean).

Water play can be useful to you. Fill the sink or a tub with soapy water and give him unbreakable stuff that needs cleaning e.g. plastic cups, toys, paint brushes etc.

Goodluck @givingupmum hang in there. You guys can do this.

Hi OP

This doesn’t sound like normal behaviour to me! The dog would worry me specifically. I’m also unsure if rewarding your son with cuddles after he’s physical hurt someone would be my approach. You could be making the situation more difficult for yourself in the long term.

It doesn’t seem that you and your husband are on the same page with how to deal with this. You need to have a chat about the approach you’re taking and both agree. If you don’t, no approach will work if the parents aren’t working together.

Also, your husband is just reacting emotionally after being physically hurt by your son. I wouldn’t judge him too harshly as people do speak rashly when emotions are running high.

whatever happens good luck!

My son was like this! And we would despair! He's totally fine now, a lovely, social, high achieving and cuddly teenager. Please don't pay too much attention to the folks saying this isn't normal or that you need to be tougher with him. keep up the cuddles and positive feedback and tell your partner to do some reading/research. At this stage my dh had to rethink his entire upbringing/parenting approach and it did wonders for our family. Good luck.

I do think your DH is right to the extent that you both as parents are the major socialisers, and some kids are just very tough and need a hell of a lot of parenting.

It’s not easy, I’ve been through this, and I’d say don’t just think he will outgrow it by himself, throw everything at learning how to deal effectively with his behaviour and be really, really consistent, patient, calm and skilled in your response. Read books, get help, get some support for your own sanity as it’s not easy on you especially as the main one.

He is already basically abusing an animal, your dog. Not saying that to upset you, just to say you need to really see this as more than just young kid tantrums. You really can turn this around, but the more he’s done this in the past the more ‘set’ he’s become and it can be just under the surface, so he will need extra ‘skilled’ responses to eventually get out of it.

Likelihood he will get better, as he is at the peak age of not being able to regulate himself, but he will much faster with you on top of it. In the meantime you need to have strategies, you need to keep your dog safe and if that means your kid is in a playpen sometimes then so be it, watch your baby also. You need to give that boy a lot of patient dedicated care and attention.

@SavBlancTonight @AnyaMarx I think your remarks are both cruel and unhelpful and that you should perhaps find a different board. It’s clear that you have very different parenting philosophies to the OP and it’s unlikely that you are going to be useful to her. Presuming that the point of these boards is for parents to offer support and kindness to each other, I’d suggest you move on.
OP, I haven’t the time to properly reply now, but I am totally in this situation with my now 4 year old and it’s been going on since he turned 3 and we also had a baby in that time. It is extremely stressful and puts a lot of pressure on the family and the marriage. So as others have said, take care of yourself and speak to whoever you can find - family, friends, HV, nursery etc - who can offer any insight or support and be a listening ear for you. I am a special needs teacher, so reasonably confident it isn’t to do with lack of boundaries or poor parenting. Some children are just harder than others and take a lot more figuring out and attention. He may have SEN, he may grow out of it, either way, he likely needs something quite personal to be able to manage himself and his emotions.
I use ‘I’m not going to let you hurt me/yourself/baby’ etc and physically restrain him. I explain that I love him and that we all have a right to be safe and happy and that this behaviour cannot happen. And just repeat. When he’s calm, we talk and cuddle and praise and repair the damage. Ignore people saying ‘be firm’ unless you genuinely think you are not firm enough. Talking and good clear boundaries are the way. Agree with the poster who said about a sticker chart for praising desires behaviours. We’ve used pasta in a jar with no prize at the end, just the praise itself being the reward. It does seem to work. We go through better and worse phases and I’d say overall it’s getting better, but slowly. I still worry a lot and constantly doubt and question. For mine, physical well-being also a big factor. So check in on hungry/tired/thirsty/needs toilet. There’s often an underlying reason if you can get it out of them.
Sending you strong thoughts.

Hi OP, we have been going through the same issues, it is so much more common than you think (even if you don't have somebody in your immediate circle to relate to). Have a look at resources on raising a 'spirited child' and look up Dr Aoife Durcan's instagram, her most recent saved stories are around hitting. Your approach with regard to calming him down through physical connection is absolutely spot on, he is in a state of dysregulation when he is acting out like that and at his age does not have the mental capacity or skills to regulate himself. He is looking to you and your husband for connection and to calm and soothe him in order to bring him back to a state of peace, as you are his sanctuary; this behaviour will be particularly heightened now a sibling has come along making him feel less secure about his place in the world and in his relationship with you. Trying to ignore the bad behaviour, while offering a calm, loving and gentle response, but genuinely praising him whenever he does something positive is your route out of this eventually when he can better regulate himself. My son was routinely hitting, kicking, smacking everyone (not just us, other children, his baby sibling), he is now approaching 4 and is the most loving, empathetic, affectionate child, he is always the first person to run to another child who is crying to make sure they are OK. These types of children experience big feelings to such an overwhelming sense at that age and are so perceptive. Looking at other people's experiences above, they do end up being very sensitive children in the best way possible and if managed with empathy and love in these early years, your son will absolutely thrive. It is so challenging when you are going through it to have the patience for this, but I have felt everything you are feeling. Unfortunately you probably have to take the same approach with your husband! Give him some empathy, as his feelings are probably borne out of embarrassment and frustration that you havent had an easy ride, but explain that your son is still so young and it's really important for his development that you both treat him with love and respect....even when he's acting like a total s#%t! :)

When people say about "start disciplining your child" etc what do you generally mean? I don't want to cause long term problems with a lack of discipline but when I Google discipline in regards to a 3 year old it says things like consistent boundaries, picking your battles, setting consequences and following through, giving choices, praising the good behaviour etc all of which we do. When he hurts us we say we aren't going to let you hurt us so we're going to walk away, when you're ready to be kind we will come back. If he hurts our dog he is instantly removed and told we aren't going to let you hurt the dog, the dog could really hurt you and you can't be near the dog again until you're gentle. He understands this and will calm down and say sorry on his own accord. He used to kick off for hours after losing it, at his age now unfortunately yes these behaviours are still happening sometimes but significantly less and for a much shorter time period.
It's the same for all his tantrums. He used to go mental about leaving places eg softplay, he'd go nuts and scream and shout, hit and bite, refuse to walk i'd have to lug him out. Yesterday we were at the farm and he didn't want to leave the play area, I had the baby in the sling so started to panic as I was alone with them both and couldn't pick him up but I explained yes it's sad when we have to leave somewhere, but instead of being sad about leaving let's be happy that we had so much fun. He was still shouting I don't want to go I don't want to go so I got on his level asked how he feels, he said sad because he wasn't done playing. I explained we can play more when we get home, and he can have a cuddle once baby is in the car seat if he is feeling sad. He said a quiet little ok and walked back to the car holding my hand. Again this is progress to before when it would be wrestling him into the car and him screaming the whole way home.

I am soft with my approach to him I grew up with shouty parents and being sent to my room, things taken away from me etc and I don't want to be that mum but I guess I am asking for reassurance is the above discipline? Is there something I'm not doing? I don't want to fuck him up obviously, it's so blooming hard sometimes.

sometimes her looking out the window is enough to distract her into calming down.

You've got this. Make sure you and your husband are consistent. Remember he's not intentionally trying to hurt you all. It's his way of communicating that he can't cope with the current situation. You as parents need to put the boundaries in place and consistency. Decide together what isn't acceptable- biting kicking etc. But does it really matter for a while whether he picks uo his toys or whatever you battle with. Start with the important stuff. You've got this, things will get better

Just seen your response above. Sounds like your behaviour is great and exactly what he needs. Ask your husband to try your approach for 2 weeks, if no improvement then you'll try something else. You might need to parent him a little bit too unfortunately. Also try to build the bond between baby and your son - o the baby loves your tower you've just built, the baby thinks your dancing is great etc.

You need to seek professional help. My nephew was the same as a child and is still horrible. He's now 19 and still lashes out when angry.

Sorry my response before didn't post properly- Our daughter was like this when we had a baby and around the same age. Dont underestimate how much a new family member can turn their world upside down. We had absolute hell for weeks, punching and kicking us particularly at bedtime. I spoke to the health visitor in desperation. Her advice (which I was very cynical about to begin with) is overlook the bad behaviour....unless its really hurting someone and constant praise of the good (you're sitting on your chair very well, well done. You used kind hands then etc). It takes a bit of retraining your own behaviour to do this and feels completely ridiculous sometimes.

don't try to be confrontational - as it sounds like your husband is being. It just escalates the situation. Decide between you whats not acceptable and ensure he is safe but walk away when he's biting, kicking etc. Its a sign he can't cope with whats going on. Further discipline just escalates it. Dont argue for an apology when you go back to him just ask if he would like to come play x y z and give him a cuddle and move on. Once my daughters behaviour improved we introduced the thinking step which is by the patio doors and sometimes her looking out the window is enough to distract her into calming down.

We also ensured that we gave her as much 1-2-1 time as possible. Ignore the chores for a while, put your phones down and play what he wants to play whole heartedly. Get your husband to play cars or tea parties or whatever it is your son wants to play and use it to model good behaviour. Praise constantly. That was really great when you x y z. I love it when you....

We made bedtimes much easier by introducing a bedtime chart. It was partly a novelty thing for our little girl but also kept us in check making sure we were consistent. sometimes her looking out the window is enough to distract her into calming down. We laminated this one and put velcro bits on the back so she could move the pieces herself. When she was being difficult we would say what does the bedtime chart say we do next, it made it less confrontational as it wasn't us saying put your pjs on, it was the chart whatmomslove.com/kids/printable-bedtime-routine-chart/

Make sure you and your husband are consistent. Remember he's not intentionally trying to hurt you all. It's his way of communicating that he can't cope with the current situation. You as parents need to put the boundaries in place and consistency. Decide together what isn't acceptable- biting kicking etc. But does it really matter for a while whether he picks uo his toys or whatever you battle with. Start with the important stuff. You've got this, things will get better

You don’t need to be shouting and have harsh consequences. Your approach at the farm sounds perfect. Your DH needs to take a step back and think about the words he uses in addressing your son’s behaviour as he’s being OTT. My DD used to have terrible tantrums at 3. It went on until after 3 but I can’t remember what age she calmed with the tantrums. You wouldn’t believe it was the same child now. At 15 she’s not like that at all. If she’s upset about something now she will walk away. She’s very calm and collected and mature for her age. I’ve always had a gentle parenting approach. My ex not so much, he’s more shouty when annoyed but none of us have been mega strict with them. We have 2 great teenagers and it goes to show you don’t need strict rules and harsh discipline to raise polite, calm and respectable kids. Keep doing what you’re doing, both you and DH need to be consistent

I like what @Sazzlehead wrote:

Her advice (which I was very cynical about to begin with) is overlook the bad behaviour....unless its really hurting someone and constant praise of the good (you're sitting on your chair very well, well done. You used kind hands then etc). It takes a bit of retraining your own behaviour to do this and feels completely ridiculous sometimes.

I’ve heard this advice too and it really does work.

It sounds as if what you’re doing is starting to work for you ds. It is very much about treating your child as an individual. What works with one could not be right for another.

With my dd, I always gave warning we were going to change / stop an activity. So we are leaving in 15 mins then gave a countdown, 10 mins, 5 mins, 2 mins. Just one more minute. This helps with transitions but maybe you’re doing this already.

With tantrums, I’d just stay with dd and hold the space so to speak then hug whenever she was ready. Routine to her was really important. She wasn’t the sort of child, who could adapt to changes, even minor ones. My friend’s ds was the same but also used to hit out a lot more than my dd. My friend used to turn him round so he’d be flailing outwards and hold him tight till he calmed down. She ignored the bad and looked for the good and he grew out of it into a great kid.

I think both her ds and my dd would have struggled immensely with any kind of change, especially a new sibling. Your ds’s world has been turned upside down. Someone on a recent thread compared it to your spouse moving their new partner into the home. Perhaps if you pointed this out to your dh, he’d understand the monumental change this is to such a tiny child? Some children thrive with a new sibling. Some it takes time but from everything I’ve seen, it is achievable with a lot of love and understanding.

I did do the naughty step from about 3 with dd but it wasn’t terribly successful. I basically had to stay with her for a lot of it. And she hated it. This was over a decade ago and I’ve learned more since then. I read up why it wasn’t working and changed it to ‘time in’ so we’d go to a space, she could get upset, kick off and I’d be there talking to her as she slowly calmed down. It sounds as if your ds gets cross a lot so if this appealed to you, you could put a lot of cushions in a corner to throw around and kick or hit. Some children like to be separated and feel safe expressing these big feelings in and enclosed area but not a separate room eg a small tent. I think you could still do time in with your baby around but make it in a room separate from your dog.

Is your ds getting enough play in his life? As I intimated upthread, dd is an only and I can imagine it is hard when you’re juggling more than one. So my dd got lots of sensory play and walks to tire her out, we also met up a lot with other mums with children the same age, which helped us all to learn to parent together as we took the best bits from each of us.

I think the pasta Jar for rewards is a good idea. Dd had sticker charts when she was a bit older but pasta for a younger child sounds perfect. Dd started being mean to our dog and hitting him when she was about 5. So one of the aims on the chart was to be kind to the dog. She had 2 warnings then lost the sticker for that day if there was a third incident and I slowly brought it round to no warning. Then the issue was resolved. He was such a lovely dog and never retaliated. Bless him. It did work with time and effort. Lots of discussions around kind hands.

At the end of the day, all behaviour is communication and your ds is saying he’s struggling right now. I don’t agree with people, who say your ds is a nightmare now and will continue to be so. I do think how parents react to their children has a massive impact on the future. It sounds as if you’re pretty in tune with your ds already and are ready to listen and learn from those, with a lot more experience than me.

Idk if you need to re home your dog, even if it is only for a while. That is a decision you need to make based on how much of the violence can be stopped, how much you can keep the dog and your ds separate and the temperament of your dog. As my dd was 5 when she started being mean to the dog, it was easier because she had more understanding than a 3 year old. Hers was communication that she was struggling btw, which I addressed but it took time. She is 14 now and would never dream of hitting me or an animal.

Hi @givingupmum ,

All of this is great, this is what disciplining looks like with a three year old. Your partner needs to find a way to get quickly onto your page.

It can be really tough. So frightening, maddening, bewildering, exhausting dealing with these behaviours. Everything can seem so futile when you think you've made progress and then 2 nights later your child attempts to claw you again for some perceived infraction! The feelings that both yourself and your husband are experiencing are normal and valid, it's really tough.

With my children, now 8 and 5 years. When they were both 3/3.5 years old, I sought support from my local CAMHS services - via Health Visitor referral - as with both children I felt overwhelmed by their behaviours and recognised I needed parenting strategies to ensure that I responded appropriately and helpfully to their needs.

Their behaviours ranged from violence towards myself and my partner, or our younger child being outrageously horrendous to our older one.

In both cases CAMHS referred us to their programme Solihull approach. In some areas they offer the Incredible Years programme.

My husband only attended the programme once, when we were trying to support child number 2. I attended the course on both occasions, approximately, 3.5 years apart. I'm so glad I did.

I continue to employ the Solihull approach today and both children are both doing really well. My 8 year, probably calmed down at around 4 years old, I think the influence of a younger sibling helped there. My 5 year old, still at times displays challenging behaviours but the episodes are less frequent and are resolved a lot quicker.

In my area , these are typically offered and run as a 12 week in person group parenting programme. The child does not participate with you. The course is aimed at supporting parents with better understanding themselves and their child's behaviours and understanding how to support said child, yourself and if relevant other family members. Different topics are covered each week, there was 'homework' in the form of observations of yourself and your child's behaviours, trying different techniques to find a resolution to managing or avoiding different types of conflict and then an opportunity to reflect on those experiences.

My children never displayed any challenging behaviours with any other care givers. Their respective childminder/ nursery was always so complimentary about their behaviour, they were both used (in their respective settings) as examples of children modelling expected behaviours. Always polite, tidy, curious, playful, respectful of other children and the adults they interacted with. Juxtaposed against their behaviour at home, it was all very Jekyll and Hyde...

As you know, your son isn't vile, his behaviour, at times is harmful, both physically and emotionally. You all may benefit from yourself and your husband seeking some support from your local CAMHS service. Especially if you can access a parenting course like one of the ones I discussed at the top of this post.

Good luck to you all!

Please rehome your dog.
A violent child and a dog is a disaster waiting to happen

My son is very much like this. He is 19 months and he seems to be getting progressively worse. I hate it, I really do. Was considering posting myself because of that and some other issues so I totally understand your husbands reaction.
However, I remember my nephew was like this. In fact very much like this. Once he turned 3 he was able to start talking and communicating with his words and this had a big impact on his behaviour. He’s a pleasant little boy and it’s like that vile behaviour did not exist. Hope my son and yours do the same 🤞

You've already learned two useful strategies.

1. Love bombing. Cuddling and reassuring.

1. best one - anticipating and preventing.

Most of this can be resolved by stopping it happening in the first place.
Example - you know he doesn't like leaving places/play ending. So you explained that he can have fun at home. What else do you do? You could give a heads up eg ok we are going home in five minutes, we've got two more plays which two would you like to do (so there's a choice for him to think about instead of the going home part), distraction (what would you like to do when we get home? make a hot chocolate or have a snack - again, choice of two)
Same for bedtime eyc.

I didn't bother with naughty step time outs etc for my younger ones. Wish I had learned that for the first! If it doesn't match their personality and winds them up, why do it.

Anticipate and prevent is 90% of the battle.

As he becomes more able to express himself, this should help. He has a new baby to come to terms with, it's huge for him. Big hugs and cuddles for him