Are there any absoute rights and wrongs in parenting?

[seeker]

Apart from bottom line safety issues?

I have been thinking about this because I consider myself by nature a relativist, and the mumsnet consensus is to end most discussions with something like "each to their own".

But I was on a thread recently when I felt very strongly that someone's viewpoint was just wrong. Not a different point of view, but wrong. And I said so - expecting to be flamed - but somewhat to my chagrin I was reminded of my insignificance by being ignored!

So, are there any parenting issues that people feel are absolutely right or wrong - or is everything except basic safety things like car seats and smoking over babies heads and not leaving your valium open in the cot a matter of opinion?

Tbh I'm not really sure what smacking 'teaches' a child....that its ok to hit or lash out??

Greensleeves, how is this 'good work', has it resulted in changing anyones opinions about smacking, or has it been a blow for non-smacking? It has only left me with a bad taste in my mouth and a sense of loss that (some) parents who don't smack can be such unpleasant bullies and do their best to undermine and demoralize other parents, oh and BTW you don't know if I smack or not - just check out my posts! - even beginning to discuss smacking and ever admitting to giving your much loved child a smack clearly results in a verbal assault, an individuals WHOLE parenting career being damned and undermined (you smacked, bad parent, bad parent, bad parent nah nah nah nah), continual and unremitting cyber bullying and a sense of smug self-congratulatory satisfaction for (some of) the non-smackers.

Personally I think video games and violent images on TV and in films are far more damaging to a child's perspective on violence and non-violence than what (in my case as a clearly identified, by some mns, abused child) amounted to a smack once every decade...

It certainly hasn't been a debate, and many posts have been misinterpreted and misused (I hope the children get listened to a bit better during their little chats) plus I am horrified that such extremism can be dressed up as a fair and impartial debate - way'd it go!

The 4 y olds I see on the playground exhibit more compassion, tolerance and understanding towards their peers than I have seen here from some as soon as the smack word came up - parenting IS NOT A COMPETITION!

So - let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone...

The Mumsnet philosophy. We believe that by pooling knowledge and experience, parents can make each other's lives easier. Please bear in mind that issues to do with raising children can be very sensitive and that everyone has the right to make their own choices when it comes to bringing up their kids. This is a discussion forum and we ask you to respect other people's right to their opinions, even if you disagree with them. Our policy is to keep intervention to a minimum and let the conversation flow. Having said that, we will remove postings that are obscene, contain personal attacks or break the law. Please do bear in mind that we all know how difficult this parenting business can be, and if there's one thing all of us could do with, it's some moral support.

This is the first time I've really seen people be nasty on mumsnet, although I have to admit that there is a lot of 'PFB syndrome' labelling that I think is really rude and if it was me that had been told in the smug 'God look at you with your first baby, you don't know anything that I know - PFB'er' attitude I'd be gutted.

bb99, if you can't stand the heat, get off the thread. There is no bullying on this thread, just very strong opinions. Lots of people have strong opinions about smacking. I am not going to be supportive or understanding of a parent smacking their child and I don't understand why you expect me to be. To me smacking IS a form of bullying a child, why should I pretend anything else just to make you feel comfortable?

Good work in the sense that new parents stumbling across this site will see a more balanced representation of views, rather than being given the impression that we are all pig ignorant thugs who solve our problems with violence instead of words.

Greensleeves - That's a bit uncalled for, I think there's only 2 people on this thread that have actually said they are pro-smacking, the rest haven't, so actually they are the ones making this a balanced debate (not that it is) in having different views to yourself.

Fairymum - glad to see you have confirmed my suspicions that you are the discworld type of the fair folk! (see Terry Pratchett)

Try reading what I actually wrote instead of just mis-interpreting it and trying to turn this into some kind of shouting match - cos your behaviour is not becoming of the non-violence that you proclaim to support IMO. I worry when people are so vindictive towards strangers as we are always more pleasant to those we don't live with...

I DON'T EXPECT ANYONE TO SUPPORT OR AGREE WITH SOMETHING THAT THEY DON'T (AGREE WITH) BUT I DON'T EXPECT PEOPLE TO PUT DOWN OTHERS in the way some have on this thread.

A lot of parenting is a form of bullying as it often involves encouraging an individual to do something that they wouldn't otherwise choose to do IYSWIM.

Greensleeves - my heart goes out to the extreemist name caller 'pig ignorant thugs' who considers this a balanced way of representing views - I saw an awful lot of name calling and bad parent finger pointing, infact if ANY of the children in my school behaved in this way their parents would be called in to explain their bullying behaviour - check out the definition of balanced.

I think a lot of parents would read some of the gung ho posts and be horrified that parents would behave towards others in such a way to (IMO) appear really lady dog like and judgemental. I'm sure (?) you are all very lovely mummies.

I don't think anyone has to change their views, just try expressing them in a more rational, informed and CONSTRUCTIVE manner.

Your views do not offend at all, the way you have behaved towards other parents belittles you.

If people really want to have a debate and win the hearts and minds of people who (have the right to) choose to smack and IF people truly want to make our nation one where smacking is deemed unnecessary you need a progressive approach and debate, not just to hammer anyone into the ground who ever states that they have smacked, THAT APPROACH NEVER WORKS (SHE WHO SHOUTS LOUDEST...).

You're clearly not really interested in others' views at all, as you haven't responded to any of the posts RE: what is acceptable, just jumped up and down shouting bad mum, bad mum, even though neither of you even know whether or not I agree with smacking or have ever smacked my kids. I believe in the freedom of being non-judgemental as I will NEVER be in the position to parent another persons' child through the experiences expressed anywhere here. I am shocked by the arrogance expressed here RE the damning attitude. How sad that some women feel the right to belittle others and write in such a way.

Maybe that's why we only run the world and don't rule it.

lollipomum - thank you for actually reading posts. Check out my new thread - why don't we run AND rule the world?

As if telling someone to 'get off the thread' isn't the most classic bully's response...

btw - just meant to pop the quote in GS, not appear to call you a pit.

Just in case anyone is interested in a debate RE: disciplining children, though these were interesting perspectives...

www.bps.org.uk/index.cfm?F3240258-306E-1C7F-B6EB-46934E6062D0&ForumID=1&fuseAction=displayMessage&me ssageID=73

"The argument that violence breeds more violence is a powerful one. Who would stand up and extol the virtue of violence? However, the equation of smacking with violence is a verbal trick designed to associate this form of punishment with abuse. Parents who occasionally spank their children are not behaving violently. Violence is physical force intended to injure or abuse. Caring parents who administer a smack in response to a child?s act of wilful defiance with the objective of discouraging unacceptable behaviour are not behaving violently." from following site

www.frankfuredi.com/index.php/site/article/94/

"Discipline in context: perceptions of parenting and family life

The qualitative interviews highlighted the need to situate the issue of discipline within the context of broader perceptions of parenting and family life. Contemporary parents clearly feel that they face significantly greater pressures than earlier generations. In this context, research participants cited the difficulty of maintaining an appropriate work-life balance, the loss of routine in family life and the pressure of their own and their childrens material expectations.

It was also widely held that there has been a significant change in the general relationship between children and adults, with the former becoming more assertive and less accepting of adult authority in general. Although many parents welcomed this shift, there was a view that it has made it more difficult to discipline children effectively." from

www.childpolicyinfo.childreninscotland.org.uk/index/news-app?story=3629

Just a thought, shades of grey and all...