Are there any absoute rights and wrongs in parenting?

[seeker]

Apart from bottom line safety issues?

I have been thinking about this because I consider myself by nature a relativist, and the mumsnet consensus is to end most discussions with something like "each to their own".

But I was on a thread recently when I felt very strongly that someone's viewpoint was just wrong. Not a different point of view, but wrong. And I said so - expecting to be flamed - but somewhat to my chagrin I was reminded of my insignificance by being ignored!

So, are there any parenting issues that people feel are absolutely right or wrong - or is everything except basic safety things like car seats and smoking over babies heads and not leaving your valium open in the cot a matter of opinion?

I earn nothing. I don't smack.

I am very depressed that this thread has become about class/MN class division.
Want to point out that I disassociated myself from Xenia's position a couple of pages ago.

by xenia again..... "
The less you earn and the lower your IQ the more likely you smack"...... UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!
i feel sorry for your children being brought up to believe your dated and ridiculous theories, ie, council estates are full of child beaters, they are thick and uneducated and obviously from your posting second class individuals.
you want to get your facts straight. high income and IQ does not give you superior status over anyone else.

But it does mean you're less likely to smack. Anyway as I said whoever does it smacking is wrong.

want at this point to say that the woman whom I rowed with about smacking was not working class.

I see no evidence of high IQ in these peoples comments. Xenia is good at insulting people and being controversial but her debating skills are zero and her arguments are ill- informed.
Nasty snobby types. How arrogant to assume that everything you do is superior because you earn lots of money. Honestly, these views are so old fashioned and out moded, I can't imagine knowing such ignorant people

And my friend I mentioned several pages age is extremely middle class and is educated to degree level and so is her husband and they both smack their 8 and 11 year olds in public.

I want to disassociate myself again from the repellent class divide that seems to be building.

Xenia, I find your attitude morally, philosophically and factually wrong. I'm sorry I started a thread which has given you the opportunity to air your offensive prejudices.

Good post seeker, I think many people would agree this has become very offensive

Justgetonwithit i appreciate your support and you are so right, i do not need to justify my actions to these people... i have to say to xenia is this judging from the way you talk about poor people, i'd say that you are no better than those pro smackers that you dislike so much and if you look at the way some of the rich kids turn out...i'd rather have my lot any day...they are spoilt, rotten little kids, with no respect for anyone, notice i said some not all!!! Being born with a silver spoon and having money does not make you a better parent!!! Xenia you have shown yourself to be a predudice stuck up snob!!! I'll shall not post again because as justgetonwithit says, i don't need to justify myself to the likes of you!!

Absolute wrongs:

Not succeeding in convincing your child that they are loved and loveable and not teaching them to expect to be loved and respected.

Absolute rights:

Er, the opposite I think.

I dfon't understand why everyone is so offended by the idea that education improves us intelectually and gives us a greater understanding of morals and ethics in all areas of life. What is so contentious about that?

MT - I do agree so wholeheartedly .

Of course I disagree with Xenia's comments and the way she puts them across, but tbh I think her views, while they obviously seem extreme on here, are not so at odds with the rest of society. For instance, this quote from the bbc website today about the age children start school:

"Pupils from poorer homes, with parents who are less able to help their learning, might be held behind if they didn't start lessons until six or seven."

Cushioned in nice, inoffensive language perhaps, but what is it really saying?

This is how the "working class" (whatever that really means) are portrayed by the media, which bombards us left, right and centre on a daily basis. We know less and less of our neighbours, and so glean our fabulous insights into their lives from other sources.

So, perhaps another child-raising absolute: Watch what influences come into your homes! Don't let children grow up without the ability to question all the media assumptions that they are bombarded with.

It's just saying that many working class are underprivledged when it comes to education. What is wrong with that? It's a fact not a value judgement.

If you knwo they are underprivledged you can do siomethuing about it.

I think you can read the quote in lots of ways, with another one being "Poor parents can't help their children learn to read and write" (is this really true?), and then subconsciously "which means they are not as good at parenting as those who can" (which is obviously not true). That is one underlying message which can be dangerous if you are not aware of it, and then leads to Xenia's crass and sweeping statements.

What it is really saying is the truth. Although there are lots of good loving working class parents and lots of the working class are clever on average more are less clever and more are not so well educated and do not bring children up so well. It's self evident. It's why we bother to educate people. The more education you have the less likely you thump the children at home for their own good.

1958 study on social class and CP links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-1224%28197402%2939%3A1%3C68%3ASCACPI%3E2.0.CO%3B2-C&size=LARGE&origin =JSTOR-enlargePage - if I had more time I would find something more recent - that was just the first hit on google - the lower your class the more likely you use brute force.

I would really like you to read the "but we took you to stately homes" thread Xenia.

Bad parenting isn't just confined to thumping. Leaving children feeling unloved and with a low sense of self-esteem, is classless.

Xenia - 1958???????

I think we need something more recent

Yes, there are lots of forms of neglect but my point that the lower classes are less well educated and more likely to hit a child to teach it a lesson I am sure holds good.

I know no parents who still hit their children. But I know a very great many who constantly shout and bellow. And a fair few who are withering with sarcasm. Both of which have equally bad effects on smallchildren...

xenia you don't know when to stop do you?Full of cr*p sorry

This is more recent, but American

But this is interesting too

But I should add that I have just googled out of interest. No idea how authoritative these might be.

Journal of Marriage and the Family?