Are there any absoute rights and wrongs in parenting?

[seeker]

Apart from bottom line safety issues?

I have been thinking about this because I consider myself by nature a relativist, and the mumsnet consensus is to end most discussions with something like "each to their own".

But I was on a thread recently when I felt very strongly that someone's viewpoint was just wrong. Not a different point of view, but wrong. And I said so - expecting to be flamed - but somewhat to my chagrin I was reminded of my insignificance by being ignored!

So, are there any parenting issues that people feel are absolutely right or wrong - or is everything except basic safety things like car seats and smoking over babies heads and not leaving your valium open in the cot a matter of opinion?

Ooh, dunno, perhaps because I was smacked as a child/wasn't smacked enough as a child. Who can tell?

I have and will continue to say that i have tried other ways and do use other methods but they don't work all the time on all children...and i still don't feel it appropriate to approach a parent that has smacked there child, it is nobody elses business (unless the child is being beaten or punched)and certainly shouldn't whilst the child in ears shot because that would breach the authority of the parent. Irrelavent as to whether you feel it's wrong, it's not your child and not your choice on how they are brought up!! Of course no one would expect anyone to stand by whilst a child is abused, kicked, punched or called awful names and sworn at, i would and have never done this and i would approach them. The difference between a tap/smack on bottom or legs and abuse is clear to me!!

Do you think that any of us have the right to be absolute about other people's parenting though? Other than things which are against the law, a lot of bad parenting that we see when we're out and about is surely just a snapshot of that parent/child relationship? Who are we to judge?

Who indeed? Which is why it is rather foolish to assume that hitting does no damage.

who indeed was to just.

I don't know, Zog. That's why I started the thread!

'Who are we to judge' is just bollocks though really, helping us to salve our consciences without sticking our necks out in a way that might be socially embarrassing.

The answer, though is 'I am Onebatmother. I will judge you if I think your parenting is damaging your child.'

How do you know smacking does damage, to the majority of children and i know lots i don't believe it does, if done correctly without malice, is this coming from some sort of research that you've read because i really don't believe everything i read and i can only draw on my experience and experience of others...you know a lot of so called research is bollocks....look at all the stuff to do with the mmr...i mean if any one saw the damage measles can do.. and i have my young sister had it as a baby and believe me i'd go for the mmr any day, research is valuable but it doesn't make it right!!!

I can't really engage with your research argument, sorry.

But it is perfectly possible to know that smacking does damage without reading a book.
Would you enjoy being hit by someone stronger than you, on whom you depend for food, shelter, love, if you displeased them?

Or would it leave you feeling sad, powerless, afraid, unsure, humiliated?

This was the point of the thread though wasn't it? (Apologies seeker if I've misunderstood)

Everyone appears to agree that there are absolutes in parenting - no-one has come out in favour of sexual abuse for instance. Where we draw the lines for ourselves though clearly varies.

I think we're all right to defend/espouse our own viewpoints. As someone mentioned before - surely otherwise we descend into the realms of "all that is needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing". We may not like, or respect, the opinions of others - but surely we have to respect their right to their opinions, and to express them if they so choose.

Oh god I am soooooo wound up now!

What makes you think you have the right to physically hurt a little one or anyone for that matter - if you went up to a child in the street and hit them it would be just as wrong just because they are your children doesn't mean it is ok to hurt them, you should be more against it because you have a physical and emotional bond with them!!!

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

I don't hit my kids because I have brought them up to know inflicting physical or mental cruelty on another living being is wrong, wrong, wrong! Ergo they do not hit or bite or kick - they are generally well behaved good little kids - a bit lazy - maybe I should give them a slap and it would cure them of that!

Society hasn't gone wrong because people aren't smacked anymore it has gone wrong because people aren't teaching their children just how precious they are and what a human life is actually worth! So therefore these kids going round stabbing each other have no self worth so think that others don't and so taking that life won't actually mean anything to their family or others!

I find this whole thing incredible - you are arguing that because it is your child and you have tried every other way it is ok to assault them because degrees dont come into it - you hit someone and cause physical pain you are in the eyes of the law assaulting them!

Well said, twinkie, especially the bit about why things have gone wrong in society.

Thankfully, the law doesn't equate smacking with 'assault' because the law reflects the view of the majority of people in this society, that there is huge difference between randomly punching strangers in the face and a parent (who we presume loves their child) using a small degree of force to reprimand their child.

I really don't know what is going on in the heads of the rapid anti-smackers heads when they imagine otherwise totally normal people smacking their children. Presumably you think we use it as an opportunity to fulfill our sadistic desires. In fact, we do it because it might just get the child to stop what they are doing/not repeat what they have just done/recognise that they are not in charge and need to reign in their behaviour and that mummy or daddy knows best.

rabid not rapid!!

All I know is the thought of smacking the little person that DH and I conceived, treasured whilst they were growing inside me for 9 months and done everything I can to make sure thay are safe and free from hurt and pain makes me feel physically sick.

You should get out more.

I do get out - I have a wonderful life, I have a wonderful job for which I get paid handsomely, I have everything materially I could wish for - a wonderful, handsome, generous, funny, sucessful husband and 2 adorable kids who know they are loved and cared for and have parents who would go to the ends of the earth to protect them from any kind of hurt.

When your kids grow up and ask you why you smacked them I hope you have the guts not to make throw away comments like 'you need to get out more' but have the balls to say it because mummy wasn't articulate enough to get you to behave without resorting to physical violence. But then I suppose you are smacking them because their failure to behave not your failure to control them!

Incredibly sad!

Like most parents who have smacked their children, it is not a fundamental principle underlying all aspects of my child-rearing! It is just that sometimes it seems (and might well turn out to be) the most appropriate action. I occasionally smack my boys but most of the time seek to avoid doing so, that's the whole point: it's a last resort!

If you begin from the starting point of giving other parents the benefit of the doubt, it is easier to imagine that they are doing it for similar reasons and with a similar degree of restraint. If smacking was aimed at hurting a lot, it would be called hitting or assault. It isn't, that's why most normal people are able to understand the distinction.

Just your snide comments are doing your argument no favours.

Well said, again, Twinkie.

There is no distinction!

Thanks onebatmother - I feel very sad reading this and it makes me wonder where do these people draw the line - their line is a certain degree of pain for a misdemeanor where as the next smacking parent's maybe slightly more pain - where do you stop FGS!

When does a slap or a slight tap stop being so and turn into actual assault - there is no line in the sand on this one!

Having experienced many different degrees of physical violence - both pre-meditated and in temper - as a child I am more than capable of understanding the distinction between them. Whilst I appreciate that my experience is by no means universal I have to say that the emotional impact of each incident was neither lessened or worsened by the severity of the violence. Each and every occasion was a deeply traumatic and humiliating event - some of which haunt me to this day.

I say this solely because it's impossible to judge what harm is being done by how severe the violence is.

and in the same tone seaside, just because you were traumatised (and I am very sorry that you were, i am not making light of anything), doesn't mean that everyone else is - EVERYONE is different, even kids, and some of you have been blessed with well behaved kids, some of you haven't, some of you have been blessed with the ability to deal with bad behaviour verbally and rationally, some of you haven't.....I don't think any of us are in a position to be morally higher than another person - we take life as we find it and deal with what life throws at us in a way WE deem as appropriate.

Also there are some of us - like myself who had/has an uncontrollable temper and I'm seeking help for it and like someone else said, just because I have handed out a smack doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make me a bad parent either....

FWIW I have probably smacked by boys (6 and 3) about 5 times in total during their lives. They have rarely cried as a result (it's actually very difficult to make yourself smack them hard enough to hurt, as you don't really want to hurt them, you just want them to take notice and for that to be the end of it). They are, of course, indignant, but they often react far more hysterically when I turn off the television mid-programme or say they cannot have biscuits for breakfast!

I don't think this is because they are living in fear of my terrible and awesome 'violence'. It is because they are surprised that mummy, who loves them a lot and is usually pretty nice, has decided that enough is enough and for that moment, is going to change tack quite dramatically unless things stop!

That's alright then just mummy changing tack or not being able to control your temper - jesus can you imagine what reposnse a man would get on here if he was whacking his wife and then blaming it on not being able to control his temper - changing tack or uncontrollable temper - it is not right to hurt another human being it is what makes us civilised and not animals!

Am off now to cheer myself up reading different happy threads as I think I have got my point across.