Are there any absoute rights and wrongs in parenting?

[seeker]

Apart from bottom line safety issues?

I have been thinking about this because I consider myself by nature a relativist, and the mumsnet consensus is to end most discussions with something like "each to their own".

But I was on a thread recently when I felt very strongly that someone's viewpoint was just wrong. Not a different point of view, but wrong. And I said so - expecting to be flamed - but somewhat to my chagrin I was reminded of my insignificance by being ignored!

So, are there any parenting issues that people feel are absolutely right or wrong - or is everything except basic safety things like car seats and smoking over babies heads and not leaving your valium open in the cot a matter of opinion?

What was the viewpoint that was just wrong?

I think there are some things that are just wrong.

An example would be saying "you are....(stupid, an idiot, useless, a pain)". Just wrong. But I'm sure there are people who would disagree.

hi seeker, think that this is very much dependant on many different things.
but you know that dont you.
i disagree with a huge raft of things discussed on this forum. but then i agree with allot.
i think im right, many will think im wrong.
in fact i have been FFS ked allot on here because of some of the parenting choices that i make.

I think there are some things that are wrong. As Legoleia says (but ongoing, not as a one off). Neglect (apart from me MNing while DS gets into trouble - that's just me encouraging independent play!)

seeker I am much of a relativist like you and tend to think that there are no absolute rights or wrongs (except for basic stuff) as children are different and so are parents and circumstances etc. also do not feel generally to be in the position to judge muuch as I am no expert and only have the experience of one child who is very different from all other and I have been wrong in many occasion to0.

having said that I sometimes cannot help think that certain behaviours are wrong which I think it's only natural but do not know whether I am right in thinking so.

generally I am for the 'live and let live' attitude.

donbean - I'm thinking about things that aren't dependent on circumstances. In the same way that car seats are non negotiably essential.

For example, saying "you are stupid" is a good example. There are no circumstances in which it could be anything but wrong to say that to a child.

I am a "live and let live-r' too - but I'm beginning to think that there is an element of moral cowardice in my attitude.

I think doing something that feels wrong for you is the only thing that is definately wrong. The rest is a grey area.

So for example, smacking your child because your mum tells you you should is wrong. There are many people who will argue that smacking is not wrong though (I'm not one of them incidentally).

I do think that mumsnet is great as it gives you a chance to examine what is right for you, as everyone does things differently, and hearing about it can help make you more confident in your own choices. So speaking up to say you think something is wrong is fine - as long as you accept that not everyone will agree...iyswim

If you are talking aside from safety issues I would say that 90%+ of decisions there are no rights and wrongs. I think that you have to make decisions based on what is right for your family and as every family is different most decisions will be different.

absolute rights - to give as much love/support/encouragement as you are able to give

absolute wrongs - any form of abuse/neglect (and in that, I would include, like you say, calling a child 'stupid/daft/useless' etc).

seeker I think it is absolutely wrong to humiliate and belittle a child, but I think people's perseptions and opinions on what would count as humiliating or belittling will be different, there is never going to be absolute agreement on anything is there?

violence of any kind (including "tapping" )
swearing at them
terrifying them with irrational and unprovoked rages
failing to feed/clothe them adequately
following your turbulent sexual impulses at the expense of your children - moving different men in and out of the home, moving from bed to bed dragging your children along with you
belittling or ridiculing their childhood fears and beliefs
sneering at them and doing them down, especially in public

I just know I get things "wrong" everyday, but I also know (well think) that I amd getting a lot of it "right" overall. Since I stopped try to be perfect I am getting far less wrong.

No.

But there is the law of whichever country you reside in, and you should obey it (or at the very least ensure that no-one knows you are breaking it ).

And there are also a host of things that it is preferable or advisable to do over others, if you want a happy family of healthy children growing up to reach their full potential.

I think there are and I think there are areas where you can say 'this is wrong' - in many cases, i.e. smacking, the law agrees so yes, I would say absolute

WRONG
violence, including smacking
humiliation (agree about "you are stupid" - can't imagine a circ where it would be ok in my book to say this to a child)
abuse though food i.e a child that NEVER has ANYTHING good for them is being abused imo (I am talking extremes like those stupid women on Jamies school dinners, and those whose children have faeces appearng in their mouths because they are fed appallingly, I am NOT talking the odd Fruit Shoot)
not letting them have any rules or boundaries at all

RIGHT
letting them know you love them

It's a guilty liar's euphemism for smacking, Kerrymum.

as in 'it was just a little tap' Kerry.
(how are you btw?)

Seeker, are you worried that you are suffering from.. erm.. moral cowardice?

I mean, is this about not telling other people that they are doing something Absolutely Wrong?

Or about own parenting?

I tend to think absolutes are dangerous - but i know what you mean about moral cowardice too.

Parenting should be flexible shouldn't it. I think you have to be open to changing your mind and mood, free to rethink things, make changes according to the growing person in front of you.

I find absolutes very uncomfortable really. Though WWW list seems sound.

Abuse shouldn't be up for grabs. Though perhaps on MN I prefer it when people say 'why did you do that? what could you do next time?' rather than scream 'WRONG' because it seems so unhelpful.

Though I should perhaps say at this point that I have definitely said to my children at different points 'you are being an arse' 'don't do that, it's stupid' and 'oh fgs you are being useless about this.' Not nice, but not absuse I don't think. See, absolutes aren't easy.

yes def re last para 100x. Me too. It's contextual and dependent on the rest of one's parenting. I often say to DS who's 6 'Der!' (as in derbrain). Also 'dumbkopf' with full gutteral WW2-film German pronunciation. Would probably be horrified to hear it from other lips, but it maked DS laugh and is a way of saying 'you silly billy' for older child, and a little more firmly.

Re: moral cowardice v courage of conviction.
I humiliated someone in a shop once by loudly telling her not to smack her 18month old, hard, on the leg, whilst shouting at her. She argued back and I ended up pretty much chanting 'shame on you, SHAME on you, hurting a child. Violence is NOT OKAY!'. I was in tears too.

I was a bit mad and post-partum at the time. And still not at all sure that it was the right thing. But couldn't BEAR the fact that everyone was looking disapproving, but no-one was telling her to stop.

I just sometimes wonder about the "for evil to prevail it is only necessary for good men to do nothing" perspective.

I wonder about things like smacking (another good example) I believe that it is an absolute wrong - but I never say so, either in RL or on here. I have a friend who smacks a lot - and I have never said anything stronger than something like "have you ever thought of trying another approach"

The attitude on the thread that got me thinking about this was that children should be taught never to talk to strangers and that the world is a dangerous and threatening place. I SO believe that this is a wrong, thing to do and it is damaging to children and to society at large, but I have never said that before without hedging it about with "well everybody's different" and "people have to do what they think best" and "Follow your instincts".

A psychoanalyst once said to me that to be a 'good enough' parent all you need to be is benign and consistent. So if you do nothing that deliberately harms your child and if you stick to your guns about things that matter including telling off over important things like safety, hygiene and basic manners, you can't go wrong.

seeker - is your question perhaps more to do with what kind of morals you teach your child? I can't see how being relativist in general childcare is an issue. But being laissez faire in issues to do with race, violence etc. would be problematic.