Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

Hi OP, I’m sorry for what you’re going through and that your ex has physically assaulted you in front of your daughter.

I have experience of courts, mediation, court orders and solicitors and I’ll try to keep this factual, as far as I understand things to work.

1. All judges are different but it is fairly likely that you would be granted overnights from around 2 years. Until then, it would be day time “contact” which could happen anywhere you like, as long as there are no safeguarding concerns (so, you could take her to your own home and bring her back for bedtime)
2. Court Orders can be incredibly detailed. I have seen court orders that describe exactly how a passport must be renewed (one parent applies and holds the passport, but the other must pay). They can reflect the minutiae of every single thing that is agreed in court, if that is what is needed to enable positive co-parenting for the child. Therefore, your order could literally stipulate that contact is not overnight until the child’s 2nd birthday and then it is 2 nights every week thereafter, or whatever.
3. It is possible for either party to lie in court, and indeed people do. However, court take allegations of abuse, neglect and alcohol / drug dependencies very seriously. They would order something called a “fact finding” and then within that exercise they would submit for strand testing and CAFCASS investigations. Google CAFCASS if you aren’t sure what that would mean. You would not lose access to your daughter for anything less than serious safeguarding issues that can be proven in court. You do not need to worry about this.
4. You must attempt mediation before court. This is a directive of the court. If one of both of you are low income (I forget what the threshold is), your first session is free for both of you and all sessions are free for anyone on Universal Credit.
5. You are an equal parent, in the eyes of the law, provided you are listed on the birth certificate. You do not have to prove your status as parent. However, it is an emotive topic and 15 months is very young. Courts always look to create, encourage and maintain a relationship with both parents. They take a very very dim view of any resident parent that tries to frustrate this.

It sounds as though you know what you want but you are afraid of the time / cost / stress / burden on your child. My advice would be to pursue a court order sooner rather than later, if you honestly think that is they way this is headed eventually. It will protect your time with your daughter which will benefit her. Judges often seek to “maintain the status quo”. Better to act quickly than to let your relationship with your daughter diminish and for that to become the status quo.
It does not have to be nasty. It can all be discussed and drawn up in mediation. Your solicitor can then submit the finished order to the court to be ratified, at a cost to you. (Few hundred pound)

Responsibility is the key word here - not rights. Only the dc has rights. Again why do you pay for things as your contribution rather than paying a money payment?

I gave up reading the replies on page 1. Actually raging on your behalf at the replies.

Your child is not too young! Why is she too young to be away from her Mum but its OK to be away from her Dad?

Please don't listen to these people.

You need to go straight to court. The mum will not calm down, she won't suddenly become reasonable, it won't end here unless you end it by going to court.

Go to court, get a court order, have your child overnight and only speak to the mum when absolutely necessary. The solicitor isn't trying to scare you, she speaks from experience. My solicitor (I am female) told me to go straight for court orders against my daughters dad. Best thing I have ever done. Like you, I lived a life full of anxiety until I took him to court and they put him firmly in his place. Go to court. Good luck.

@Fancylike
Like the equal parents comments, the bitter ex who goes clubbing all night while the poor dad is sat at her house. I suspect OP is busy screenshooting to take back to his men’s rights forum

Or perhaps in this case, the father simply is the more grounded and reasonable parent and is simply extremely frustrated with many responses which declare mothers - as opposed to primarily care givers - as being more important. If the OP is guilty of anything it’s of simply getting sidetracked into responding to some of the prejudiced comments and baseless speculation on here. (eg, your comment)

I'm sorry but the more you respond, the more I can't help but think you are not giving us the full picture at all?

You are very set on why you want already, and you was set on this prior to posting.

I think you posted expecting everybody to come and say how horrific your ex sounds, give you loads of sympathy and push you to do an option that isn't number 2, you said originally option 2 would feel best - others have agreed and you just seem very angry??

At this point I think you just go to court 🤷‍♀️ if you've done nothing wrong I don't understand you being scared of them favouring her. They'll go off evidence and evidence only

I've re read your original post over and over and every one of your replies over and over and some of the stuff you're saying simply doesn't add up.

Agree. I can’t understand why the OP seems so reluctant to take the advice about getting the parenting arrangements put on a legal and agreed footing.

I’ve said I’m going to give it a month or so and ask again. She’ll probably stop me seeing her a few days in that time but we’ll see.

Im not getting pissed at peoples responses. Some people are thinking the same way I do. Others aren’t and I’m counteracting their argument to get a better understanding of why they think that way.

my ideal option is 5. Where mum says okay have her over nights once a week and we can work up to two nights then three etc.

you all do realize that what I am asking for is more responsibility? From on objective view, im creating more work for myself and giving baby’s mum more time to herself to get things done, go to the gym, go on dates, go shopping do whatever she wants… I could easily sit back and take the two days and go about my own life and live it as if I was child free.

but my worst fear is for my daughter to grow up thinking I don’t love her or she doesn’t love me, that I didn’t have time for her, that I didn’t put up a fight to have her and give her best of both worlds. Yes her mum looks after her well but my daughter was with me last week and within a couple hours had learned how to kick a football. Just as I was teaching her to put blocks into the right holes it was time to drop her back… the time isn’t enough

I really don't understand these comments. It is your baby and you have been around for the baby's whole life. Of course you should have her for overnights! 15 month old is not too young to stay away from the mother, especially if the baby isn't breastfeeding. So all the people who commented here that they won't feel comfortable spending the night away never have left the child with grandparents or went out while the other parent was with them before 15 months? I several times went out since I had my baby (11 months now) and left her with her dad nearly for all night/day. Yes, we are together but I would do the same if we weren't. We only heard your side of the story but from the way you talk about your child I get that you are a loving and a responsible father. She has no right to keep the child away just becouse you are not together. I would go to court, 100%!

I say this from my heart, don't worry about your daughter growing up and thinking you don't love her.

I absolutely adore my dad and the older I've got, the more I've adored him. I didn't see much of him when I was small (due to his work) but I felt every ounce of love he had for me. Now as an adult, he's my absolute best friend. Nobody makes me laugh as much as he does and there's nothing a hug of his can't fix. X

Seems like the majority of people have ignored that OP said the ex is violent

Reducing child maintenance? Don’t make me laugh I pay more than child maintenance would want me to pay with 0 overnights as it is. And that’s with no maintenance order in place.

dont know what you’ve been through in your life but luckily money isn’t much of an issue for me or my child’s mum, not sure where you both pulled that out of?

If you have parental responsibility and you clearly care and want to have your daughter overnight, your ex partner is being unreasonable.

I would try to arrange mediation and get a parent contact agreement put together.

I disagree with posts saying baby is too young. Sorry but parents are equal... all this they grew in me and I fed them breast milk makes me have the final say.
My child is equally my husbands child.
I know people who have their children stay at their grandparents once per week younger at this age! Down to having to work shifts etc! A lot of mothers go back to work at 6 months and children are in childcare from morning till evening.
The baby is 15 months, not 15 weeks. At one year I was doing x2 13 hour shifts meaning sometimes I didn't see my baby awake for 2 full days! (I only worked x2 days) and my daughter was cared for by her Dad.

I fully agree OP , you should have equal rights and its’s terrible that the child’s mother is saying your child is too young

can of worms
hes a bloke, a lot will either disbelieve him or say it doesn’t count against a man. Not worth poking that bear on this thread though

All these “I wouldn’t be ready” ugh it’s not about you it’s about what’s best for the child and building a bond with both parents is what’s best. If a mum had gave a 15 month sleep over grandparent’s house twice a week so she could work you’d all be saying that’s fine but no because it’s a dad wanting to see their own child you’re all chomping at the bit to say you would never. If I were you I’d go straight to court for 50 50, things will only get harder as is life not easier. Start from now as you mean to go on, don’t let this abusive women manipulate you with your own child.

You are absolutely doing the right thing. Give it a month or two, build up the trust and the confidence to eventually have your child for longer.

I know you love her, and your dd will feel, see and understand your love. It is never ever about quantity when it comes to children, it is about quality. Make the days you have with her really count. Many fathers that do live at home with their wives/dps do not see their children for two whole days as they are working long hours. So you are not so different from others.

There are downsides to having children with people you are not married to/together and that is time with your child, and lots of other things besides. I think in some ways you have to accept the situation is not ideal, not unusual and not perfect - but good enough.

One day you may go on to have more children in a secure relationship and it will feel very different.

I would keep the court option on the backburner. The courts are so busy you won't get this resolved any time soon anyway, so take your time, enjoy your days. Stick to the agreements and hopefully it will move forward in a really constructive way.

I think it’s too soon aswell - she’s too young imo. I think you’re underestimating what it’s like to birth a baby and then spend a night apart from them when they are still a baby… feels like you’ve cut off your leg and left it somewhere. I wouldn’t let my baby stay overnight under the age of probably 2/3 x

That is not true. The thread is about visitation rights not violence. The op has already addressed the violence by moving out. So there is no need to comment further, what he is asking for is advice about whether to go to court and how to have the child over night.

If she messes around on previously agreed contact time as a way of punishing you just jump straight to getting a court order sorted.

In her defense of course she doesn’t want to give up time with her baby! And control over her baby’s life! That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be allowed plenty of contact time but if you go about it in an agressive way she’s just going to freak out every time you mention it. Lots of mums feel their babies are almost an extension of themselves when they are very small and it’s extremely scary to have someone - even the baby’s father, trying to undermine that. Obviously that feeling reduces naturally over time as baby grows and gets more independent. You seem to hate her and she will feel that which will make her feel like you’re not a safe person for her baby to be around either. It also sounds like you feel you’re a better parent than her. She might worry you’ll try to take the baby away from her. However irrational that is.

Basically ideally you would build up her trust in you at her pace and it would lead to a happy co-parenting relationship long term. But if that’s not an option because feelings are too difficult on both sides then going straight for a fixed court order and minimal interaction is probably best. You need to get those emotions calmer on both sides so that you both start to appreciate the time you have with your daughter as well as the time you have free to do other things.

The thing is OP, if a woman with a baby of that age were posting on here about having an upcoming business trip/hen do/ wedding etc and worrying about leaving the baby with it's perfectly competent dad for a couple of nights, everyone would be saying "it's fine, do it". This is a womens site and women tend to side with other women. I suggest you head to court and get the access arrangements for your child set down clearly and legally.

On my way out, so not read the full thread.
But start with mediation. She may not turn up (will work in your favour if she doesn’t) but that’s what the court will recommend at the first hearing anyway. They are highly unlikely to do anything unless you’ve tried it, and will just cost you money. You can do mediation in different rooms, if you think things will get emotional and abusive. The mediation team are used to dealing with situations like this, and will give advice to both of you.
If you cannot reach a agreement at mediation (and it sounds unlikely) then go to court. They are likely to offer you alternate weekends, plus a couple of evenings per week, or even 50/50 of that’s what you want. But make sure that you are thinking about this from your babies point of view.
It will be easier at 15 months, than when she’s older.