Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

My guess is that the insistence on overnights is about reducing child maintenance.

I was in exactly your position. I am the mum in it. My DC went to her dads overnight from about 18 months. She could have gone earlier to be honest.

This isn't about the baby, it's about the mum and how she feels about it. It's also control.

It IS hard to be away from your baby but it's part of life when you aren't with the father.

Unfortunately I think you will have to go for a court order for formal arrangements as soon as you can. The longer you wait the less likely you are to get it as the court will look at the current situation.

Yep.

More than a faint whiff of "Fathers 4 Justice" here. Makes you wonder why he came on Mumsnet, doesn't it. 🙄

Moneywise just pick a reasonable figure - the CMS minimum or higher and give her that money every month. It makes no difference whatsoever if you read all her electricity bills or not. That’s just added stress for you not knowing how much you will be paying each month and for her knowing you’re going to be going through her receipts. So if you’ve paying 480pounds one month, 500 the next, then 470 then next and CMS is recommending 450, just pay 480 and stop worrying about exactly how it’s being spent.

Thank you so much for your objective take on things I’m grateful.

I was starting to believe that I shouldn’t try to have my daughter overnight or that I’m crazy for thinking it’s a good idea…

the responses have made me want to wait atleast a month to see if child’s mum even sticks to the 2 days a week offer but if not will have to go through mediation.

This.

All the listing all the things you bought and paid for. It's a bit off - like you think you are owed something in return for it.

It is too early. Not recommended until aged 3-4. Even in court.

My guess is that the insistence on overnights is about reducing child maintenance.

That does. Really make sense as there is no CMS payment happening. I'm interested to know why the mother is choosing to have him pay certain bills etc rather than taking the more common cash payment?!

Go to mediation and take it from there. As another poster said a third party can be useful to diffuse things.
A lot of posters have said the baby is too young. I do not agree. Maybe will assist the mum to say you want to try having her overnight but you are happy to reconsider if the baby won’t settle. I think that’s going above and beyond to be honest as despite what a lot of other posters think it isn’t for the mum to dictate to the dad how care for the child is divided between them. It’s completely understandable to want to have your child in your home.

I think you need mediation and possibly court.
It feels to me like Mum wants things very much on her terms, picking and choosing the days, accepting the things/ funds you provide but is not willing to allow you proper access.

I agree with the posters who recognise it will be harder to introduce a change to routine such as staying over somewhere new as the child gets older.

Hats off to you, the easy option is option 1 but you are taking responsibility.

I also really don't feel like you're giving us the full picture here either.

YABU
you adore your baby but will just walk away because your life is too hard. Mkay then.

Do the two days. Build up from there.

BabyFour2023 I am aware of that - i may have misunderstood his post as it implied he was paying a lot more than he would need to if he went through CMS.

But why in the way he is rather than just paying mum the cash as is the norm

Those are silly questions and if they are an example of how you think and want to operate you'll get nowhere.
Firstly, you get your child with you for whole days so she will not be strange with you when she's old enough to stay the night. She'll be happy.

It's not just ok for baby to be with Mum, it's vital. Young babies get nervy when separated from Mum. If you did manage to enforce a stay, baby might well be frightened and screaming for her mother. And that will happen time after time because you rushed things.
Stick to the time you have with her and make it fun and loving. The rest will follow.

these are some of the incorrect assumptions made:

1. That I wasn’t staying with my child 24/7 since birth til about 1 years old.
2. That because I work I wasn’t around my child as much. I work from home so was with her consistently throughout the day.
3. That my baby gets fussy at night and gets anxiety about being away from mother.
4. That my child needs to get used to staying at my house. She’s already used to it and has stayed nearly once a week overnight and I’ve had to have her mum here too for that to happen.
5. That my house doesn’t have equipment. I have everything from a cot to prep machine to a million toys etc.
6. That child’s mum agreeing to two days a week is enough, she often would stop me coming around to see baby when we argue until she needed me again (never longer than a week) so I am assuming she will do this now with the 2 days a week at mine plan.
7. That mother gets anxiety when away from the baby. She really doesn’t. She barely even checks in and sees it as ‘me time’ which I’m okay with but just painting the picture. Which is why I used the examples of her going clubbing etc and me doing everything for my child and putting her to sleep in her usual routine with no issues at all. Baby doesn’t even know mums gone and just wakes up in the morning and sees her then.
8. That I need to go to doc appts etc. I’ve been to every single doctors appointment she’s had.

just a few wrong assumptions that I’ve cleared up.

I would go for mediation.
Your ex is abusive and controlling. I don't know what planet most posters are on here. Given the arguments/ mums physical aggression it would be in baby's best interests to see her parents separately and away from conflict.

I don't get the '15 month can't be separated from their mum'. Really? Within my friend group our dc frequently had sleepovers at grandparents/ aunts /uncles houses from about a year, but on occasions younger (if there was a wedding etc). Our children are older now but perfectly well adjusted and my bond with my dc wasn't damaged. But this is the child's father so it's different from extended family. If he is as involved as he say he is then the child won't be distressed.

The responses from OP makes this appear like it’s not in good faith. Like the equal parents comments, the bitter ex who goes clubbing all night while the poor dad is sat at her house. I suspect OP is busy screenshooting to take back to his men’s rights forum.

No-one wants to be separated from their baby. That goes for mums and dads, and in an ideal world, where the parents are happily married, the baby won't be going anywhere for a while. But it's not good for the baby to be exposed to domestic abuse during contact times, and the child has a right to a relationship with both parents. It's a case of finding a way that works and is in the best interest of the child.

Fighting over her like a bag of sweets won't help. It's not about which parent gets what share. It is about what is best for her, which is a happy, healthy relationship with both parents.

I'd take it to court. At 15 months, she may well ready for sleepovers in the right circumstances - maybe not 50/50, but starting small and building it up. Plenty of children this age regularly sleep over with grandparents, or their other parent. She's certainly old enough to be taken out for the day and brought home for tea.

I disagree with the views of most on here about fathers not being equal parents, about babies/young children having a stronger bond with the mother (as opposed to the primary care giver), and about having to pander to the feelings of the mother.

That said, I think it’s probably in your interest to hold back on overnights for a bit longer - at least until the baby is 2+ and can express their feelings about staying overnight in a different house with a slightly different routine. At 2+ many children will be happily staying overnight with grandparents and other relatives, and therefore the mother’s arguments against allowing it wouldnt hold any weight whatsoever. In the meantime try to keep relations as cordial as possible and you could pursue more daytime access (either through dialogue or legally) but I personally wouldn’t focus that on overnights at this stage.

15 months is barely a baby any more. If you keep deferring to your ex, she'll continue to keep weaponising your child against you throughout their entire childhood. Even once you get past the current issues, your ex will come up more and more.

Debatable whether 15 months is still too young for a parent to have their own child overnight, certainly by 18 months it should be fine. SO it's on the horizon and your ex should be readying themselves for it mentally. The earlier your child gets used to having meaningful contact with you, the better it is for them.

Do not stay there overnight any more. You need to be putting as much distance between yourself and your ex as possible. (discuss matters pertaining to you child only). Your ex will probably continue to weaponise you child against you by being difficult about you withdrawing from playing 'happy families' on her terms, but that's a bridge you'll have to cross, and sooner rather than later is best.

Your 'maintenance' arrangements sound excessively complicated - a bit for this, half of that, some of the other. Go onto the Child Maintenance Service website and use their calculator to find out the statutory amount you have to pay. Then give your ex at least that much, more if you want to/feel you can afford to.

To be fair, that's usually the case when the baby hasn't seen all that much of its father.

That doesn't seem to be the situation here.

@Throwaway388 I think you need to seek legal advice as the mother is abusive so you'll never get reason however old your child is.

Let a judge look at it.

Sorry pinky I get what you’re saying but you are wrong. Dad being on birth certificate automatically gives equal parental responsibility to both parents.

Some of his responses don't seem like they're coming from the same reasonable person he describes himself to be in the post. He gets very defensive and argumentative fast, when most are agreeing that option 2 is best, which he originally said he thinks is best?!

Says a lot to me on why they must argue a lot too.

Yeah frankly this is ludicrous.
What a crock.

What about those dads who get to walk normally, not get stretch marks, sickness aches and pains, depletion do all their nutrients for 9 months. Oh those terrible dads. If it's about what's fair then seriously, this guy needs a reality check. Biology's not fair because if it was, every human would be able to give birth.

Go join dadsnet. Why is a man signing up for a women's forum?