Mother of child won’t let me have my daughter overnight. Is she being unreasonable?

[Throwaway388]

Me and ex have a 15 month old baby together.

Me and ex split before we even knew she was pregnant. When I found out, and knew she would not get an abortion. I stayed with her during the pregnancy but we did not get back together. I supported her in all ways for the sake of the baby atleast.

I always loved my child and a bond was instant from when baby was born so don’t have the issue (or blessing in some cases) of not caring about/wanting baby.

Baby’s mum is the reason we argue as she is very spiteful that im not with her and set on making my life hard and asserting dominance and control anywhere she can. I have been doing everything on her terms for the last 15 months.

I have been going to her house just to be around my child and staying there overnight. We naively agreed that I would stick around until she feels baby is ‘old enough’ to coparent. We argue very frequently and this often ends up in her becoming violent (breaking my things, hitting me sometimes and I’ve had to defend myself before through restraining) and kicking me out the house in front of child.

Lately I have noticed my child hates it when we argue and starts moaning, so last week I decided it was the last straw after the usual argue/get kicked out/can’t see baby for over a week cycle.

I want my life back and want to be able to move on with my child properly without having to be around her.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time. I want baby to stay overnight with me but mum is insistent it’s too early and that one day she will be ready to do it, but currently she is not comfortable with letting baby stay anywhere (implying I am on the same level as her sisters)

She has no problem leaving baby with me from morning til night where I do the bedtime routine etc while mum is out for friends bdays/parties/clubbing but has a problem with me doing this at my own house.

She doesn’t understand that I’m the child’s dad and have rights?

So I have spoke to mediators who put me in touch with a lawyer for ‘advice’. The lawyer called me this morning and tried to scare me into buying an hour consultation with them saying the only solution is to go straight for a court order as baby’s mum will never be cooperative, will only get worse etc etc I’ve had anxiety all morning from the call.

It’s like I’m used to this situation which others see as absolutely crazy but when I realize it’s not normal and it’s really bad it gives me anxiety. This is stressing me out a lot.

I pay towards baby’s mums rent every month and half gas and electric (which I’m not happy about but whatever) and half of baby’s needs e.g nappys milk wipes. I also on my own will buy baby toys and clothes more than what baby needs but just because I want to sondon’t mind that.

Currently my options are:

1. Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
2. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)
3. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.
4. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

I’m leaning towards option 2 but I’m really reaching the brink. I’m under stress constantly and it affects my daily life. I just don’t want any more drama and want to have some peace and be with my child regularly so they could have me and their mum and live a decent life with split parents.

What should I do? Am I being unreasonable? Is she being unreasonable?

What assumptions? :)

You do know many people have to put cms
towards rent and bills, yes? It’s where the child lives.

Don’t be so utterly ridiculous. It’s HIS baby too!

OP - unfortunately MN is Avery toxic place at times and men infiltrating the boards is especially often met with derision.

I don’t think anything you’ve said comes across as out of order or overstepping the mark. But some will get enjoyment out of twisting everything you say.

To those who keep on saying “just be happy with daytimes - why do you need her overnight”. The OP presumably wants to have his dd at his own home, in his own surroundings - there’s nothing wrong with that and it must obviously be logistically difficult to regularly be staying over at his ex’s - so stop insinuating there is some kind of nefarious reason behind it.
Not to mention the fact that emotionally it’s not good to be continuing this setup if the mother is harbouring a desire to get back together with him AND the fact when they are together it often leads to rowing in front of the baby.

Men often can’t win on here - the Op sounds to me like a decent father who loves his child and doesn’t want to be a puppet dancing on a string to the tune of an ever changing setup by his ex, according to her whims.

Men are criticised on here every day for not being equal partners in bringing up their dc - here’s one who wants things to be equal and he’s getting a slating 🤷‍♀️

Surely you know kids go through phases and as long as they have a healthy relationship with parents they'll go through phases of wanting different parents.
One day that cry will be 'daddy'

Sorry OP there is a lot of absolute rubbish being posted on here.

End of the day though its not about your rights, or mum's rights. Your child is the one with rights and your child has the right to a relationship with you.

You and mum are equal parents in law - no matter is being spouted on here.

So your best bet is mediation followed by court if that doesn't work.

That is what your child deserves and has a right to.

The bond between mother and baby is different. She grew and carried that baby for nine months. The baby would know and recognise her from birth. We know it's traumatic to separate a new baby from their mother.

Your relationship with the mother sounds deeply toxic. Your dislike of her reeks from your posts and is possibly influencing your thoughts and behaviour. Maybe counselling could help you both work through your issues and help you co-parent better together for the sake of your daughter.

But that’s created by the environment not by the needs of the child.

By that logic, if a child is spending equal time with the dad, say and night, they will have no preference.
You cant create a situation that goes against one parent and then use that as a stick to beat them with, saying they are not equal therefore they can’t have the child.
On the contrary, you should foster a situation where the child has no preference, esp when it’s clear that the child will never live with both parents together anyway.

Document everything for three months.
The money you send - keep screenshots of receipts.
Any time she is abusive /picks a fight - record it. Writing it down immediately after event is sufficient.
When baby is with you - record the agreed times and that you stuck to them.
Record any time she refuses contact. Screenshot texts.
After three months, review.
And actually I don't think that the solicitor is wrong. She is not going to change, and a Court Order is the simplest way to settle this.

Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable either. That's way too young to be left overnight without mummy. It's more us mums dont feel comfortable being away from our child overnight when the babies are young anything could happen, Sid's can still happen at that age, and it's not about not trusting you, you sound like a lovely father, but we carry the babies within us for almost a year the thought of being away from my child at that young is enough to give me a panic attack. You keep talking about tights, but at the end of the day you are not married so under the law, the mother automatically assumes parental responsibility. I would say just work with the mum and support her in any way you can for now. Respect her boundaries, if she's not comfortable with you having her overnight, just respect that. Help any way you can and in time I'm sure you will both come to a co parenting agreement that benefits both of you.

Meant to say you keep talking about rights not tights lol🤦🏾‍♀️

Nothing stopping you and her working up to overnights quite quickly.

She has agreed to let me have my baby 2 days a week during the day and drop baby off before dinner time

Grab this. Do this now. And in time, likely not much, overnights will come.

Your dd is the one with rights here - and she will be getting lots of lovely time with you when she is awake. Overnights will come.

Do the above, every single week, and raise the overnights again in 3/4 months with a plan to start when she is X age.

If your ex is still not responsive to it, start court proceedings.

While there are things in the OP's post that make me uncomfortable - the talk of "rights" and the implication you're going above and beyond just because you are contributing financially, I'm going to assume the best.

On that basis, as you've been an active, regular and reliable presence in the child's life from birth, the child is used to being at your house and has even had nights at your house withthe mother, and has had you at the mothers house overnight so used to you settling them at night or getting them up in the morning, I agree that 15 months is a perfectly okay age for you to start getting overnights.

In fact, I'd be starting to try to formalise the arrangement overall so that you have set days and nights, that are scheduled, agreed and can't be changed unless it's at the agreement of both of you.

eg, you had an argument las week so now you haven't seen the baby since then? why is that? did the mum refuse to let you go over or did you not go over because you didn't want to see the mum? That sort of thing has to stop - you need to have agreed times and days and it doesn't matter what is happening between you, your time with the baby should be honoured accordingly.

Not really in my honest opinion. After about 2 years old they can absolutely be equal parents but I think babies just have a different kind of bond with their mums. Mums have 9 months more time bonding with their child and the baby is born knowing her in a way they don’t know anyone else. That has an enormous event on the newborn stage and so then it just takes more time for the baby to build a similar connection with their other parent/other family and caregivers (grandparents, childminders etc).

I think option 2 is the right one. Stay calm. Keep showing up on a consistent regular schedule. You’re very right to try to disentangle yourself from your ex if things are getting the least bit violent when you are around each other. Ask every 3 months or so if mum is ready for overnights yet. If she’s not ready by 2years then I would go to court.
If she tries to cut your daytime involvement down then I would go to court now.

You are able to take your baby to your home for 2 days in the week, right up until bed time. Why do you specifically need to have her overnight? 15 months is still a baby. I would think 3 years is about right for a single overnight stay away from her Mum each week. You seem obsessed with your rights over needs of your baby. Babies like to sleep in their own cot in familiar surroundings knowing if they cry Mum will come. You may not like it but your ex partner is your babies primary carer. If a baby feels I'll or teething they want their primary carer. It does have to be a Mum but the person they are around the most. In this case this is your ex partner not you.

okay so the options you listed -
Run away, abandon baby and try to get over it (not going to do that)
If you're not going to do this, don't list it as an option.

1. Wait until baby’s mum is more cooperative and give it more time until she’s ‘comfortable’ with letting baby do overnights/try to talk her into it (been trying for ages it’s not working)

This is a good option, but be gentle with the 'talk her into it' part.

1. Initiate mediation which will go in my favor but scared to ‘take it there’ with baby’s mum as she could become even worse.

Don't fear her becoming worse with this option, it may help you both.

1. Go to court. Also scared to do this as mum could just make up lies and once a court order is in place it’s stuck. I have a friend who’s child’s mum lied in court and now he can’t see his kids at all after spending thousands.

Unless she's got evidence etc against you, why be scared?
I had a male friend who had to go to court to see his kids etc, it didn't go in his favour and he convinced all of us that his ex lied etc. came out months later that he had in fact lied, there was a lot more to it and he got sent down for a long time due to his actions towards his ex behind closed doors. She had evidence of it all,and some witnesses
If you have nothing to hide, and are a good dad, don't worry.

I would keep copies of everything, the money you send, the contact between yourselves over messages etc, keep a diary of when you do see baby etc.

Give yourself a few months of trying to work with her nicely. Then go to court with your own evidence if things don't improve

I don't understand what you are after here, tbh.

You explain the siutation, give a load of options and say you are leaing toward the one that is to keep going at the mother's slow pace to hopefully get to the end goal you want.

Everyone pretty much agrees with that, saying going slowly will be best.

You appear to get pissed at them for it.

Perhaps you just wanted sympathy?

I disagree that a baby doesn’t care.they do care and they know at 15 months who their primary cater is and unfortunately it’s not you.

You are putting yourself first. You want the baby overnight. How is it best for the baby to be away from its mother who it has spent every night with since being born?

Mother-baby relationship comes first. Baby is too young to stay with you.

You broke up because you don't get along. No wonder you argue.

You're going to have to tow the line till baby is older and able to stay overnight. Do you have a good, safe home? Are you responsible? Do you smoke or drink?

Do not argue in front of the baby. Just walk out.

You don't have rights because you aren't married. You aren't even together.

Be kind to the mother of you child.

I think you have to compromise until the baby is older. Your ex may well be being unreasonable but the stress and tension over this issue isn't worth it. Let it go.
Hopefully you will have a relationship with your dd for the whole of her childhood and beyond. It's likely you'll take her on holiday etc. There are endless times ahead for you and your dd to share so play the long game.

You sound like you are already very involved and an essential part of her life. Work with that. Your ex may be right or wrong about nights but if she feels that way go with it. I was very precious about my children's nights when they were tiny. I didn't want them away from myself and my dh, even though this upset relatives who wanted them to stay over. Who knows if I was right or wrong but what I do know, now they are in their 20s, is they don't remember anything of their early years other than a general sense of how they felt. They don't remember the presents, the trips, the treats, the silly things they/we did, the routines we had. What they do remember is feeling broadly happy.

You want your child to feel safe and loved with both you and her mum, not stressed when you are together. If nights are still an issue in a year or so then perhaps look for legal solutions. Until then, be a source of security for her and enjoy your time together.
.

It seems this way.

I feel like he's come here, hoping everybody would side with him, disregard 'option 2' and encourage him to go further etc.

But we only have his side.

OP - for people to fully understand help you, you need to think calmly and stop being so reactive to what people are saying and try to reason. All I can think, is you've come out with all of this, but your decision is already made and you're being stubborn - if that's how you behave normally, I can understand why you argue with your ex a lot?

I also feel like the 'options' you listed, are very extreme and narrow minded, option 2 seems the healthiest for all party's, but you seem very against it when people in the comments agree with it. I think you need to try and make some wriggle room within your own mind and be a little more flexible and open - this situation isn't plain black and white, it's one massive grey area and you need to be prepared for all kinds of aspects coming into play here

I am on the birth certificate and my child has my last name.

I pay a proportion of her rent each month and half gas and electric (she sends receipts I send money). And half of daughters essentials and go out and buy things whenever I see them such as toys and clothes etc. her house and my house is pretty much over flooded with toys.

I earn a decent salary and so does child’s mum but I’ve checked cms payments and all in all I pay over that as it is.

she has gone to therapy which I talked her into but I genuinely believe things have gotten worse after therapy. It’s like she has less empathy now but still has the anger issues.

when she used to get angry she used to tell me I’m not the dad etc and so I done a dna test and I am the dad (daughter is spitting image of me so no surprise) just to make sure that seed of doubt is gone forever.

I think unfortunately it's just not possible to share the load equally at first. The mother has a lot more physical effort to put in and for the first few months has a very major hormonal shift, as a result of giving birth, that contributes this. Breastfeeding also contributes to this, but sounds like it's not an issue in this case.

In this case where she is no longer breastfeeding it does sound like it's possible at 15 months to have more shared custody. In that case I think it's best to go down the legal route, including the expensive legal consultation fee. Otherwise, you have to accept the terms the mother has given. It is likely that unless she has a really strong case against you, you will get access.

Your daughter will probably find it disruptive to be regularly staying at different places, but it's also disruptive not to form a relationship with both parents. It sounds like it would be best for your daughter to have one permanent home, either yours or her mothers, and then the other one see her during the day only. A stable living situation is good for her long term emotional stability.

First of all the baby is very young for overnights especially as it sounds as though all your contacts are at your ex’s house where the baby is in familiar surroundings. It doesn’t sound as though she has spent much time at your home, if any, so I think initially having her at yours for short daytime visits is the way forward, you can then build up to all day and overnights as she becomes more familiar with your home. This will also give you time to equip your home with the things you will need, eg a suitable bed, bedding and spare bedding, spare clothes, toys, a high chair etc.

Remember your relationship with your daughter is life long, a few months of settling into a new routine is neither here nor there compared with her whole life. Take your time, get it right first time so it is a positive experience and the poor child doesn’t associate you with you and her mum raising voices and having rows.

i think talking to a lawyer and getting advice is a good thing.

Why are you paying for things and not giving her the money to pay for it instead ? Is this your choice or hers?

Regardless of the toys as buying toys is a choice you make, (babies need toys yes, but not loads) - you keep going back to the money thing. I would go through courts for the money if that's a big issue for you.