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13 year old daughter is out of control - Please help me.

242 replies

NewEnglandDeli · 14/11/2022 22:43

Hi,

This may be a long one as I don’t want to drip feed, but I would really appreciate you sticking with this and offering any advice as i’m so lost. I feel like such a failure and I don’t know what on Earth to do. She is ruining my life.

This child comes from a stable, loving home. I kid you not when I tell you she is showered with love. She is told, and shown, often how loved she is. She also wants for nothing, as we are incredibly lucky to have financial stability - Maybe this is the problem. She has too much. I’ll caveat this with saying we are starting to feel the pinch like many, we are both self employed and things haven’t been marvellous this year. We are facing the new year with some worry and trepidation like so many others, but our daughter doesn’t know this. She still has everything she could want or need & it’s always drummed in to her how fortunate she is.

My house is an open home. Her friends are always here, i’m always hosting parties and organising days out with her friends and their parents (We are all good friends as we met when our girls were 2 and they all went through school together) She has a good social life, loves school, is a really popular kid and she also goes to martial arts classes 2 times per week where she’s met some new friends and is excelling. She is brilliant at martial arts and I was hoping it would instil respect and discipline- It hasn’t. She’s going worse as time goes on.

We have a younger son who idolises his big sister. He’s only 4 and she does get jealous of him sometimes but they are very close. It breaks my heart to watch how scared he looks when she kicks off. I also can’t stomach watching him observing her when she swears and speaks to us like shit. This innocent little boy will think it’s ok to talk to his parents this way if this carries on. I cannot allow this.

In Primary school she was a model pupil. Literally the perfect child. She shone academically, was incredibly polite, enthusiastic and in Y6 became Head Girl of the school. I couldn’t have wished
for more. Since starting Secondary school she has slowly changed. She’s in Y8 and each passing week she gets worse. Luckily, her school work isn’t suffering and she treats her teachers with the respect that they deserve but I mean at home, she is becoming unrecognisable.

We expected the usual teen strops, eye rolling, not wanting to “hang around” with us anymore, and it did start off like that, but now she’s become aggressive- slamming doors, threatening violence, swearing, totally overreacting at the slightest request such as tidying her absolute pig sty of a room.

She is permanently on her phone. Laughing, joking on Facetime, scrolling Tick Tock and Snapchat. I took her away in the October half term, just she and I. Her brother and dad stayed home. Her phone remained her constant companion and in the end I had a go at her about putting her bloody phone down and enjoying some quality time with her mother. I’d have killed for that at her age. I came from an unstable home due to a dad that a womaniser and a
criminal and a mum that wasn’t around for
me as much as she should have been (Although she and I are fine now and she openly
admits her past faults) I always swore my kids would feel loved and secure and so “one on one” time is very important to me. I occasionally take her to the theatre, for dinner etc. She never particularly wants to be there but I do it anyway so she knows that I want to spend time with her and that she is so important to me. In a nutshell she certainly does get time and attention.

I’d be here all night if I gave all of the examples of her behaviour but i’ll share 3 incidents this week -

Bonfire night we were at the local pub for dinner before the fireworks display. We were with friends and their daughters who are friends with my 2 children. My husband asked our daughter what she wanted for her dinner and she replied with “Nothing, it’s vile in here”…. 10 minutes later we had all ordered and she looked like she regretted her decision, so he asked her again. Her response this time was a very loud “I said nothing. Shut your face before I smash it in”

To say that I was disgusted, embarrassed and heartbroken was an understatement. The whole pub looked at her. Her dad looked like he wanted to cry, and whilst I love him very much he is a bit useless at all of this. He’s never been the disciplinarian, he is anything for a quiet life. He will rarely talk about her behaviour to her. He will either brush it under the carpet and leave me to try and deal with it, or he’ll say to me that he can’t do this anymore, he can’t live with her whilst she is like this and he feels like he doesn’t want to be in our home.

Second example this week was Friday night. She came home from school with a Monster energy drink (She had it hidden) She knows quite well these aren’t allowed, it’s non negotiable. I found it, asked where it had come from and she said her friend gave it to her. I’m friends with this kid’s
mum and dad and so said i’d call them about it as I know for a fact their child isn’t allowed these drinks. She exploded. Called me and her dad the world’s worst parents, said she hates us, we are “Fucking rats and fucking grasses and she hopes we die” She began screaming and crying like a lunatic. Her little brother’s face :( He was so scared. I can’t continue to let him witness this.

After these 2 incidents I took her phone away: She did appear sorry and more pleasant and so it was reinstated. I’m no angel. I will shout and berate her for her behaviour, I don’t let it go. I lose my shit over it and when I’m calm I talk and try and reason and understand but she cannot answer why she behaves this way. She says she doesn’t know and that she doesn’t think it’s “that bad”

The last example was tonight. Laughing and joking all night on the phone with her friends. I popped my head in to say Goodnight and she said “Where’s my food?” In that awful, disrespectful manner that she so often uses. I asked her to explain what she meant as she had her dinner when she came from school. Her reply “That didn’t fill me up. I thought you were making soup” When I explained i’d made the soup but didn’t think she’d like it, she started screaming that she’s neglected, and that she’ll go and make a “fucking sandwich” She flounced out of her room and then she punched me in the arm with hatred in her face.

I squared up to her, I honestly wanted to slap her face. I have had ENOUGH. All I could think is how fucking DARE SHE!!! It’s getting out of control. Hitting me! Who the hell does she thinks she is. Seriously, she wants for nothing, loved and cared for. Why on earth is she doing this to me? I said to her “You have gone too fucking far now, how dare you”

She laughed in my face and called me a
dickhead. I absolutely lost it, I wooled her by her head to her bedroom, I went nuclear. I took her phone, remote control, everything of value to her. I told her what a disappointment she’d become and that she was a devastatingly bad example to her impressionable little brother. I then started sobbing, begging her to explain why she behaves this way. She couldn’t answer. I told her I hated who she had become because it’s the truth. I cannot stand her anymore. She was warned that this is it. She’s fucked up monumentally. The phone has gone, she is grounded for the foreseeable future, she is confined to her bedroom.

I’m not proud of my actions tonight but I’ve put up with this for so long. My heart is shattered. She’s vile, it’s as simple as that.

I have no idea where i’ve gone so wrong. We’ve always had boundaries, she’d always respected them until this last year. She was a wonderful kid and I was so proud of her but now she is truly unpleasant and i’m left feeling like the world’s
biggest failure as a parent.

Please can anyone offer advice. How the hell do I deal with this? What can I do? Why on Earth has she become so awful?

My only thought is to speak to her martial arts teacher and ask him for help. I literally don’t know what else to do?

OP posts:
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Thereisnolight · 15/11/2022 11:27

This has been a great thread and I’ve learned a lot myself.

OP, you sound lovely (if a little emotionally needy/disregulated at times, but Jeez, who isn’t?). I imagine you were a fantastic mum to your primary school DD and you’re struggling a bit now that she has changed. Anne Enright (Booker prize winner) described children as being “literally replaced” when they reached puberty.

So your parenting style needs to be tweaked. Lots of good insights and advice here.

Imo, some excellent takeaways are:

Don’t try to be her friend till she’s older. Be her calm, unflappable mum with the hide of a rhino.

If she’s pushing your buttons don’t take it personally. Deal with it calmly and firmly,
and offload your emotions to a friend later.

Give her space and respect. Choose your battles.

Too much phone use is a definitely battle worth winning.

As is too much time with peers that may be stressing her out. Try to distract her with activities away from her usual friends (eg the martial arts - I would not cancel this if she loves it!)

Show this thread to your DH. Some advice here that he should read too.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/11/2022 11:30

DH will not take advice. He’ll throw up his hands and say, “I didn’t go anything! Don’t blame me!”

Mindthegap725 · 15/11/2022 11:40

ScrollingLeaves · 15/11/2022 10:49

We all can see that I have many faults from this thread but I refuse to believe anything i’ve done warrants that behaviour in the pub. We were having a lovely evening, it came from nowhere.

Agreed, her behaviour was awful, but somehow it seems from what you say that you have no idea how you, and the whole family dynamic with your DH is contributing to and perpetuating this.

You are doing brilliantly by admitting things you have done and said, but you don’t seem to understand the implications. These seem clearer to people looking in from the outside, based on what you have ssid, and the implications are that, for one reason or another, you are an abusive, enmeshed, parent.

You do need help imo with therapy, reading about teens, anger management, hormone care…..whatever you can do.

Scrollingleaves (and others saying similar things ) sorry but I don’t think calling the op “abusive and enmeshed” is remotely helpful or appropriate when you are making that assessment from a few paragraphs written by a stressed parent late at night after a hideous day.

Also it’s not fair or wise to use the terms “abusive” or “enmeshed” about someone you don’t know in person and who you are not helping in a professional capacity.

Imho, op is a struggling parent who needs understanding and help, not villifying on social media.

No one on this thread is advocating violence, including the op. The op knows she made huge mistakes in that moment.
She lost control in a heated situation which was a profound mistake and she knows it and she has been very honest and admitted it.

As it says in her op, she came on here after that incident to say that “her heart is shattered”
that she “is not proud of her actions” and that she feels like the world’s biggest
parenting failure.

The op has been very honest and reached out for help, because she didn’t know where she is going wrong and her husband is no help at all so she is handling this alone.

It’s perfectly possible to advise and offer suggestions to help her without making her feel even crappier about herself
than she did before, which is hardly like to lead to better outcomes.

Op I suggest you get this thread moved to the teenagers board. I hope you and your dd are feeling calmer this morning.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

NewEnglandDeli · 15/11/2022 11:43

Thank you all. I really do mean it when I say i’m learning from every response- even (particularly) The ones that are painful to read.

@Thereisnolight Thank you, that’s very kind of you. I am definitely struggling with the change and I think now is the time to embrace, accept and move forward in a much healthier way. Emotionally needy and disregulated - Yes! That’s me 😳Will absolutely work on this and I think if finances allow after Christmas i’ll invest in some counselling.

I do try and ask what she would like to do in terms of spending times with her - The truth is that she simply doesn’t want to do anything with me. I need to accept that and wait until she changes her mind.

The one positive is that she does come to me with problems. If something has upset her in school she is open about it. She has a crush on a boy and he feels the same but she struggles to be around him with all of these feelings - She comes to me with this. The lines of communication are open. They never were with my mum and I do always offer a listening ear when DD wants one.

We actually went to a Christmas market on Saturday. It was planned for my mum and I but DD asked to come along; I was thrilled but I think she only came because my mum was going. She spent the day scrolling on her phone or listening to music on it which was disappointing but at least she came. Phone usage is now something i’m taking control of.

Whilst at the markets my mum (Who has a great relationship with my DD) asked why she was so disengaged and constantly on her phone. She then said “You’re such a fortunate child. You are lucky to have been brought her today and we have spent a fortune on you. Enjoy it and get off your phone. I was a bit of a shit mum, I was always out drinking, I didn’t really do things like this with your mum”

My DD responded with “Shut up, Sally” addressing my mum by her first name. My mum just shook her head. I said to my DD “Apologise to your nan. It’s not acceptable to speak to my mother like that” She did apologise and looked sheepish as she is very close to my mum.

I’m now wondering was she uncomfortable with what my mum said. I have no idea why my mum played the “shit mum” card. Was my DD’s reaction due to discomfort? Should my mum have not said anything about her phone usage? I just felt it wholly inappropriate for her to tell her nan to shut up. That’s my mother?! It’s very disrespectful.

OP posts:
NewEnglandDeli · 15/11/2022 11:47

@Mindthegap725 Thank you very much. I appreciate your kindness. It helps.

Yes both calmer. I have wholeheartedly apologised, explained that my behaviour was totally unacceptable, told her that I love her unreservedly but that change is coming. I said we will have a chat after school and that I’m having a conversation with her martial arts instructor this evening.

Change can bring discomfort so I expect a bit of moaning about the phone going/usage being limited but I feel it’s necessary.

OP posts:
Subbaxeo · 15/11/2022 12:00

One thing I did find useful during the teen years was stopping asking them to apologise. You end up in an entrenched situation because you want them to say sorry-it certain,y won’t be a sincere apology and therefore worthless-and having a standoff with a stubborn teen over something which is worthless is pointless. If you start conversations with criticism of their behaviour, it doesn’t make them want to engage. Imagine how you would feel if a person you were close to were doing this-wouldn’t it make you want to dig your heels in or be rude? I did it when mine were teens and got nowhere. Possibly try ignoring the phone use and positively engaging in other ways?

Subbaxeo · 15/11/2022 12:02

I’m not advocating ignoring rudeness by the way-they need to be pulled up on it and told it’s rude and not to do it-but don’t fight for a sullen, insincere apology.

Mariposista · 15/11/2022 12:08

OP so many of your daughters' issues seem to stem from her phone. It needs to go. She is clearly addicted and too immature to use it appropriately.

Onnabugeisha · 15/11/2022 12:15

I think your gut instinct is right and your mums comments did make her uncomfortable.
You’re such a fortunate child. You are lucky to have been brought her today and we have spent a fortune on you. Enjoy it and get off your phone. I was a bit of a shit mum, I was always out drinking, I didn’t really do things like this with your mum

It was rude of your mum to say that to your DD. Imagine someone saying that to you? ‘Spent a fortune on you’…that’s guilt tripping stuff. It’s also not your mums place to lecture your DD and demand gratitude from your DD for you being a decent parent. Being a good parent (the best we can be) is what we owe our DC, they don’t owe us gratitude or fake enjoyment in return for what we signed up for by bringing them into the world.

I think it also made you a bit uncomfortable to hear your mum say that to be honest. And perhaps it’s time your DD be made aware that you weren’t given a good role model on how to be a mum, and so you’re both learning as you go how to be a mum with a teen.

I’d also talk with my mum on the side and ask her to step back and not discipline your DD like that. She’s not her mum, you are and it is up to you whether your DD is being rude with phone use or not and to correct her. And you do want to make things your DD goes on be relaxed and enjoyable for her as well, if she’s going to be criticised everytime she volunteers to spend time with you, that will just drive her away.

NewEnglandDeli · 15/11/2022 12:24

@Onnabugeisha I am pleased that my mum owns it and knows that she wasn’t as present as she should have been, but it wasn’t the time or place and I can now see how it would make DD uncomfortable.

It was honestly the first time my mum has stepped in before. She is very passive and relaxed with my daughter, she never pulls her up on anything, she always sees my daughter’s side of things before anyone else’s, so this was surprising. We’d had an Aperol Spritz at this point, maybe it was that that prompted my mum’s intervention.

Yes- That makes total sense regarding being criticised every time she volunteers to do something with me. Definitely something i’ll be conscious of going forward. Thank you for
explaining things, you’re pointing out things i’ve not seen before and now I can see them, I can work on them.

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 15/11/2022 13:11

I was thinking of doing a cartoon about teens because literally it’s like they wear a mask when around their parents. They want to seem mature and adult and cool. Only little children look excited around parents so it’s

Teen having fun with parent 😐 (usually has headphones in and is “vibing” wanting to be with you but not appear like they want to be there)
Teen bored with parent 😒

Teen having fun with friend 🤣
Teen bored with friend 😎

Its really strange. 🤨
Start observing other teen/parents out and about. It’s really reassuring because then you see it’s not just your teen.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/11/2022 13:47

Mindthegap725 · Today 11:40

Re what you said: that my comment (and others similar) saying the OP is ‘abusive and enmeshed’ is not helpful to a struggling parent, who has been honest in her posts, and is vulnerable and asking for help.

I understand what you mean, this is no place for making OP feel attacked, although that was not the intention.

As someone from a similar family, who has behaved like her DH, and later as OP seems to have done, but who found that at the time it was very difficult to see my own part, I have been over invested in this thread. I apologise, OP.

Mindthegap725 · 15/11/2022 13:53

That’s very very decent of you ScrollingLeaves and I am really sorry you had to go through those experiences Flowers

NewEnglandDeli · 15/11/2022 14:07

@ScrollingLeaves I do appreciate that but I assure you that all posts have had some validity and given me food for thought. All comments are welcome, and I knew i’d get some stick.

I hope that things are calmer for you now.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 15/11/2022 14:15

Thank you, Mindthegap and NewEngland, things are calmer now, though sometimes I wish I could turn back the clock!

So glad things feel better today NewEngland.

LondonWolf · 15/11/2022 14:23

If my child told me she was going to smash my face in, I'd quietly and pleasantly invite her outside and say "ok, let's see who wins then". I'd never fight my child obvs but she knows I am fit and strong and she's no match for me. I doesn't damage a child for them to be slightly wary of pushing their parent too far, especially in teenage years.

I'd withdraw completely from doing anything nice for her. Not a single thing. The bare minimum of care, I'd still be loving towards her but I would explain I won't be doing a single nice thing for you, why would I do anything for someone who treats me like this? Forget it. My kids know I mean it and I only have to threaten them with it these days for them to fall in line. Phone taken, devices taken unless for homework.

As for getting physical with her. I don't think there is anything wrong with what you describe. Better you then some random at work or in the street who kicks the living crap out of her gobby, aggressive self.

I know my way of doing things doesn't toe the MN parenting teenagers line but I have a 19 & 16 year old and they're lovely. Believe me we've had a few humdingers over they years but they'd never speak to me or treat me like you describe.

LexMitior · 15/11/2022 15:04

Your daughter is a spoilt little madam with no boundaries. Both you and your husband have enabled this.

Yes some is hormones, and reasonably teenagers do not want to spend lots of time with their parents. But honestly her life just sounds intense, very intense, and you too sound very intense in your parenting which is both invasive and timid. Both you and your husband are enabling this behaviour.

You have to change tack now and get her to earn her things back, and your respect. Otherwise you will have made a hellish person to work with, because this is not all hormones because her language and conduct are signs of a very difficult personality forming, one that intimidates people. I wonder how well liked she is really - what you are doing is making a really combative child. I appreciate kindness and liberal parenting are good things, but those are approaches for much younger children.

And leave her be. Set some rules on phone use and link it to conduct in the home. Explicitly

NewEnglandDeli · 15/11/2022 15:08

@LondonWolf @LexMitior I absolutely concur
with what you say. Whilst i’m absolutely going to work on my own behaviour and reactions I certainly won’t be all softly softly.

Her dad and I have to shoulder a lot of the blame here and changes must be made.

OP posts:
LexMitior · 15/11/2022 15:16

Before you bash yourself up please get on and set those rules. Do it immediately.

If your daughter continues like this she will meet someone nastier and more ready to be violent. She needs to understand boundaries of respect for her own safety. If you normalize aggressive behaviour in your day to day life, then you fail to recognise it as problematic in others. She could, contrary to her achievements, go completely the other way towards people who have aggression as a first response. It happens.

Manners and respect are protective. When you do not get them from someone, most people back away. If you do not have them yourself, you may attract a different kind of person who does not care about them either.

Thereisnolight · 15/11/2022 16:19

LexMitior · 15/11/2022 15:16

Before you bash yourself up please get on and set those rules. Do it immediately.

If your daughter continues like this she will meet someone nastier and more ready to be violent. She needs to understand boundaries of respect for her own safety. If you normalize aggressive behaviour in your day to day life, then you fail to recognise it as problematic in others. She could, contrary to her achievements, go completely the other way towards people who have aggression as a first response. It happens.

Manners and respect are protective. When you do not get them from someone, most people back away. If you do not have them yourself, you may attract a different kind of person who does not care about them either.

Manners and respect are protective

Very interesting point.

SunshinePlease101 · 15/11/2022 16:32

@Thereisnolight very interesting points you’ve made.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/11/2022 18:01

Manners and respect are protective

Very interesting point.

indeed.

LexMitior · 15/11/2022 18:15

The reason I said that manners and respect are protective is in giving that to people you are communicating what standards you expect and they are more likely to give the same in return. That is how society works.

If you are a bully, then you think manners and respect are things you are owed. But you don't give them yourself.

Eventually you meet a bigger person who will set you straight, either by force or by intimidating you. If you have never learned the mutual need for manners and respect you will be in the company of some scary people.

There is a high achieving girl in one of my daughters classes. She is absolutely vile and while being very able, spends her time correcting and bullying other children. It is not hard to imagine what happens to such children when they meet someone harder and nastier in the real world.

RosettaStormer · 15/11/2022 18:19

LexMitior · 15/11/2022 18:15

The reason I said that manners and respect are protective is in giving that to people you are communicating what standards you expect and they are more likely to give the same in return. That is how society works.

If you are a bully, then you think manners and respect are things you are owed. But you don't give them yourself.

Eventually you meet a bigger person who will set you straight, either by force or by intimidating you. If you have never learned the mutual need for manners and respect you will be in the company of some scary people.

There is a high achieving girl in one of my daughters classes. She is absolutely vile and while being very able, spends her time correcting and bullying other children. It is not hard to imagine what happens to such children when they meet someone harder and nastier in the real world.

Perhaps she has met someone harder and nastier already? Perhaps that’s why she is like that? Behaviour is learned.

LexMitior · 15/11/2022 18:25

I am sure that is likely, but I see children who have such backgrounds fall into bad company because of not knowing this basic respect. Their good performance at school means very little protection in practice.