13 year old daughter is out of control - Please help me.

[NewEnglandDeli]

Hi,

This may be a long one as I don’t want to drip feed, but I would really appreciate you sticking with this and offering any advice as i’m so lost. I feel like such a failure and I don’t know what on Earth to do. She is ruining my life.

This child comes from a stable, loving home. I kid you not when I tell you she is showered with love. She is told, and shown, often how loved she is. She also wants for nothing, as we are incredibly lucky to have financial stability - Maybe this is the problem. She has too much. I’ll caveat this with saying we are starting to feel the pinch like many, we are both self employed and things haven’t been marvellous this year. We are facing the new year with some worry and trepidation like so many others, but our daughter doesn’t know this. She still has everything she could want or need & it’s always drummed in to her how fortunate she is.

My house is an open home. Her friends are always here, i’m always hosting parties and organising days out with her friends and their parents (We are all good friends as we met when our girls were 2 and they all went through school together) She has a good social life, loves school, is a really popular kid and she also goes to martial arts classes 2 times per week where she’s met some new friends and is excelling. She is brilliant at martial arts and I was hoping it would instil respect and discipline- It hasn’t. She’s going worse as time goes on.

We have a younger son who idolises his big sister. He’s only 4 and she does get jealous of him sometimes but they are very close. It breaks my heart to watch how scared he looks when she kicks off. I also can’t stomach watching him observing her when she swears and speaks to us like shit. This innocent little boy will think it’s ok to talk to his parents this way if this carries on. I cannot allow this.

In Primary school she was a model pupil. Literally the perfect child. She shone academically, was incredibly polite, enthusiastic and in Y6 became Head Girl of the school. I couldn’t have wished
for more. Since starting Secondary school she has slowly changed. She’s in Y8 and each passing week she gets worse. Luckily, her school work isn’t suffering and she treats her teachers with the respect that they deserve but I mean at home, she is becoming unrecognisable.

We expected the usual teen strops, eye rolling, not wanting to “hang around” with us anymore, and it did start off like that, but now she’s become aggressive- slamming doors, threatening violence, swearing, totally overreacting at the slightest request such as tidying her absolute pig sty of a room.

She is permanently on her phone. Laughing, joking on Facetime, scrolling Tick Tock and Snapchat. I took her away in the October half term, just she and I. Her brother and dad stayed home. Her phone remained her constant companion and in the end I had a go at her about putting her bloody phone down and enjoying some quality time with her mother. I’d have killed for that at her age. I came from an unstable home due to a dad that a womaniser and a
criminal and a mum that wasn’t around for
me as much as she should have been (Although she and I are fine now and she openly
admits her past faults) I always swore my kids would feel loved and secure and so “one on one” time is very important to me. I occasionally take her to the theatre, for dinner etc. She never particularly wants to be there but I do it anyway so she knows that I want to spend time with her and that she is so important to me. In a nutshell she certainly does get time and attention.

I’d be here all night if I gave all of the examples of her behaviour but i’ll share 3 incidents this week -

Bonfire night we were at the local pub for dinner before the fireworks display. We were with friends and their daughters who are friends with my 2 children. My husband asked our daughter what she wanted for her dinner and she replied with “Nothing, it’s vile in here”…. 10 minutes later we had all ordered and she looked like she regretted her decision, so he asked her again. Her response this time was a very loud “I said nothing. Shut your face before I smash it in”

To say that I was disgusted, embarrassed and heartbroken was an understatement. The whole pub looked at her. Her dad looked like he wanted to cry, and whilst I love him very much he is a bit useless at all of this. He’s never been the disciplinarian, he is anything for a quiet life. He will rarely talk about her behaviour to her. He will either brush it under the carpet and leave me to try and deal with it, or he’ll say to me that he can’t do this anymore, he can’t live with her whilst she is like this and he feels like he doesn’t want to be in our home.

Second example this week was Friday night. She came home from school with a Monster energy drink (She had it hidden) She knows quite well these aren’t allowed, it’s non negotiable. I found it, asked where it had come from and she said her friend gave it to her. I’m friends with this kid’s
mum and dad and so said i’d call them about it as I know for a fact their child isn’t allowed these drinks. She exploded. Called me and her dad the world’s worst parents, said she hates us, we are “Fucking rats and fucking grasses and she hopes we die” She began screaming and crying like a lunatic. Her little brother’s face :( He was so scared. I can’t continue to let him witness this.

After these 2 incidents I took her phone away: She did appear sorry and more pleasant and so it was reinstated. I’m no angel. I will shout and berate her for her behaviour, I don’t let it go. I lose my shit over it and when I’m calm I talk and try and reason and understand but she cannot answer why she behaves this way. She says she doesn’t know and that she doesn’t think it’s “that bad”

The last example was tonight. Laughing and joking all night on the phone with her friends. I popped my head in to say Goodnight and she said “Where’s my food?” In that awful, disrespectful manner that she so often uses. I asked her to explain what she meant as she had her dinner when she came from school. Her reply “That didn’t fill me up. I thought you were making soup” When I explained i’d made the soup but didn’t think she’d like it, she started screaming that she’s neglected, and that she’ll go and make a “fucking sandwich” She flounced out of her room and then she punched me in the arm with hatred in her face.

I squared up to her, I honestly wanted to slap her face. I have had ENOUGH. All I could think is how fucking DARE SHE!!! It’s getting out of control. Hitting me! Who the hell does she thinks she is. Seriously, she wants for nothing, loved and cared for. Why on earth is she doing this to me? I said to her “You have gone too fucking far now, how dare you”

She laughed in my face and called me a
dickhead. I absolutely lost it, I wooled her by her head to her bedroom, I went nuclear. I took her phone, remote control, everything of value to her. I told her what a disappointment she’d become and that she was a devastatingly bad example to her impressionable little brother. I then started sobbing, begging her to explain why she behaves this way. She couldn’t answer. I told her I hated who she had become because it’s the truth. I cannot stand her anymore. She was warned that this is it. She’s fucked up monumentally. The phone has gone, she is grounded for the foreseeable future, she is confined to her bedroom.

I’m not proud of my actions tonight but I’ve put up with this for so long. My heart is shattered. She’s vile, it’s as simple as that.

I have no idea where i’ve gone so wrong. We’ve always had boundaries, she’d always respected them until this last year. She was a wonderful kid and I was so proud of her but now she is truly unpleasant and i’m left feeling like the world’s
biggest failure as a parent.

Please can anyone offer advice. How the hell do I deal with this? What can I do? Why on Earth has she become so awful?

My only thought is to speak to her martial arts teacher and ask him for help. I literally don’t know what else to do?

Most of this is normal teen behaviour to be honest. I think perhaps you have too much of your desire to be a perfect mum being dependent on your DD being the perfect daughter. She’s not vile, she’s not wicked. The pub incident is more about you being embarrassed and how you looked to others, thinking they’re thinking you’re an awful mum. You’re not, most people in the pub is probably thinking….ah teenager tantrum, been there and wishing you strength and patience. In my opinion, the teen years are the hardest years of parenting and the hardest years for the DC themselves. A new toy, or a cuddle, or a day out is not enough to keep them happy. Half the time it actively makes them unhappy. It’s a confusing and challenging time for parents and teens alike as you’ve started transitioning from parent-child relationship to a parent-adult relationship.

You cannot be losing your temper and swearing at her, and then punishing her for doing the same thing to you. When she escalates, you need to de-escalate or walk away. What is your punishment for dragging her into her room by her hair? Why is it your punishments are getting more and more extreme and seem to be a product of anger and retaliation than considered and proportionate consequences?

I think you’ve become too strict, it’s not the phone, teenagers have sworn at parents, slammed doors, made public scenes and been in a moody huff since forever. Having an energy drink, your response about it being forbidden and non-negotiable- you’re going to have to start negotiating. Teens cannot be ruled except by their consent. So there has to be mutual respect and give and take.

I'm not proud of it but I'd say I had similar experiences myself as a teenager at her age. My parents weren't the best parents, but I have later in life discovered that I had ADHD and severe PMDD. It could be worth looking into these?

Gosh I feel terribly sorry for you. You have tried to do your best by her and she is acting like a little shit. Don't beat yourself up, but do change some things.

Take the phone and smash it into smithereens (joke - just sell it. She can have a simple PAYG for text/call/emergencies).
Quit this open house policy. They are not uni students. Friends coming round should still be arranged and checked with parents.
Does she have a personal tutor at school? You say she behaves well there. Get him/her onside. Schools are there also to support struggling families, not just to educate kids.
Get your husband to grow a bit of a backbone - you can't do this on your own.
Yes, she is having hormonal changes, but do not let this be an excuse - her behaviour is extreme.

All the best OP.

Sounds very hormonal and very possibly driven by peer and social media pressures.

Your little girl is still inside that 13 year old somewhere. What you may be witnessing is her acting out because she is struggling to cope with the changes taking place in her body and the peer pressure she is under.

If it was me I would be focused on understanding who she is friendly with and what she is accessing online.

Once you work through that and can demonstrate an understanding of what she is experiencing you have a better chance of de-stressing the communication and agreeing boundaries.

I think you can probably let some of that stuff go - be reasonable, boundaries for your absolute red lines but pick your battles! Often the angriest & prickliest kids are in need of the most love & connection but it can be so hard to know how to do this. Doing lovely things isn’t always the same as really connecting with them & they can need it spelt out that you still adore their various strengths as they hold the narrative of the moaning about their problems in their heads so loudly!

Nail on head Dalton. She doesn’t respect you. Dh and I right from when they were tiny would not allow either of ours to be even the slightest bit rude to us. Ever. We now have polite teens. You now have to start from scratch building this up.

What Schroedinger said basically. Sounds tough so sympathy.

I'm so sorry OP, this sounds really difficult. I don't have any advice however I was like your daughter. Puberty and hormones hit me really hard and I suffer from really bad PMT and it started around that same age. I was so vile to my mum, I really regret it to this day. I have a fantastic relationship with her now, we go on holidays that I book, days out all the time and I talk to her at least once a day to have a catch up. But teenage me was just awful to her. Shouting, swearing etc. I don't know if your daughter is old enough but I take oil of evening primrose with starflower and it completely manages my rage/PMT. I wish I could have taken it earlier. Good luck OP and don't feel bad, it's a very hard age to manage

what you allow continues.every listed reason for despair is valid
try not to get physical or give way to being bullied.she clearly has underlying "issues" periods(i was a psycho/teenage is crap time)remove everything and tell her you want clean slate/will be there/and she can regain use when changes arsehole attitude

You've had some great advice.

I just wanted to say you sound like a great mum and I'm sorry you're experiencing this.

I think secondary schools are cess pits and that 13 year olds are not equipped to handle the crap they see 24/7 on sites such as tik tok.

That's not a helpful statement I know. You're little girl is still in there somewhere.

You and your husband need to stand firm on consequences for non negotiable behaviours such as hitting and swearing.

She needs a break from social media.

You don't deserve to be treated like this.

I’d have killed for that at her age.

That's so telling. You're providing her with everything you didn't have as a child but - because that was your reality and she has no concept of it - she can't understand why it's so valuable and you can't understand why she takes it for granted.

What’s that saying “the worst year of a woman’s life is being 13 the second worst is the year her daughter is”

If she speaks to you rudely, do not speak to her, Walk away and carry on doing what you’re doing. One sentence response - think about how you’re speaking to me but to be clear, you don’t speak to me like that and get nice things.

consequences. remove phone. When you give it back do so with rules. It stays downstairs at night and goes on the docking station at x time until morning. It can only be used downstairs until you rebuild trust. But also explain the link you’ve seen between phone usage and behaviour so you are helping her learn to self regulate. It’s a conversation not a shouting match. But firm words and no being persuaded to change the rules.

Get her teen vitamins - say you realise it may not all be in her control. You need to give her a way to change behaviour without losing face.

When calm, ask her how she feels when it starts bubbling up. What are the early signs she recognises? How can she identify it and what does she need to calm herself? How can she let you know she needs help de escalating? Be caring but also explain that hitting you is assault and a criminal offence. It’s not okay.

In the pub we would have gone home immediately.

Who is she talking to on the phone?????

Are you absolutely certain there’s no contact except with this small group of church school friends?

Yes - have you spent much time on social media yourself OP? More than a short time on Twitter makes my blood pressure shoot up. The narcissism, the black and white opinions. I’m not sure what Snapchat or TikTok is like but I’d imagine there are similar personalities on there. Too much of it can’t be good for a hormonal teen.

I find with DD that although she’s usually easygoing there are one or two of her peers who seem to have a bad effect on her. She develops a bit of an attitude after spending time with them. I limit and divert as much as possible. There’s a difference between being emotional and being nasty and some types of peer pressure can spin that.

@prettylittlethingss She’s definitely Neurotypical. She really is. At most, hormones are contributing to this behaviour, nothing else but I do understand why you mentioned it.

Completely agree that her dad is useless and needs to step up. I’m angry with him tonight for once again burying his head in the sand.

I do appreciate the advice, I really will be taking it all on board but have to disagree that most of it’s normal. Threatening to smash your dad’s face in for asking what you want to eat in a gorgeous pub whilst all having a great night with friends is not acceptable, not normal and it’ll never
play out like that again because she’ll be taken straight home - as per the advice given on this thread.

I had a daughter who behaved like this . It lasted a couple of years. She was struggling with all the usual things teen girls do , including self esteem and had started to lash out at me and my partner because she felt safe doing so . She was being bullied at school, addicted to her phone and was dabbling in drugs a little bit too. I’m pleased to say she turned into a very lovely and happy and successful young women who worked hard , studied hard and paid for her own car at 17 ,found a career for herself and is unrecognisable from the little madam who called me a c* and smashed my house up once.
I sought advice back then from a professional , that advice was to choose my battles , she could live in filth in her room. She wasn’t obliged to attend family meals and her basic allowance was paid no matter what . She didn’t get her extra allowance unless she’d contributed in some way to family life ( the bar was low , it was the attitude that counted) and the only time I interfered with her life was when it was necessary from a safety / welfare perspective . She took about 2 years to start asking to spend time with her baby brother and asking to come out with us , choosing to become part of the family again. She’s been lovely ever since. I don’t think she ever really knew what she was rebelling against. She was just all full of hormones and anger I think. If she’s doing okay at school then she’s not ‘off the rails’ .
sometimes giving them the cold shoulder a little bit wakes them up and makes them appreciate you. Avoiding drama and conflict should be the number one priority in the home even when that teenager is sat in filth drinking an energy drink , they only need a rotten headache and a dose of the shits once to go off them .

I’m sorry for the situation OP. The early teens - 13, 14, 15 - were the trickiest in our case. There’s lots of good advice here from others but I can suggest 2 books which might help you understand her behaviour: “Get Out of my Life but First Take Me and Alex to Town” and “Untangled”.

You have described her as ‘this child’, ‘this kid’ and ‘a witch’. I know you are struggling but this is your daughter.

Is it possible that she feels this disconnect from you and is rebelling even more strongly because she feels alone/isolated/the ‘problem’ in the family? Hormones can exaggerate everything.

The happy laughing girl is there with her friends. And she is just a girl.

You’ve told her she is a disappointment and a devastatingly bad example.

Her behaviour is disappointing. It is a different thing. I know you must feel at the end of your tether (and you really have been put to the test) but that remark will stay with her a long time. Through the anger. Through the hormones.

With that and wobbly boundaries, she is probably feeling adrift.

That isn’t to say that her behaviour is acceptable - far from it.

The advice here has been grand and. I hope it helps.

@Eyesopenwideawake Wow. That was an incredibly powerful statement and brought tears to my eyes. That’s it. You’ve hit the nail on the head.

Regarding the phone - No. I actually don’t know who she’s talking to all of the time. It’s impossible to police. I fucking hate phones and this technical generation!!

I agree wholeheartedly that she doesn’t respect us. What I can say with absolute confidence is that she did once. I only needed to give her a look and that was enough. There were boundaries and she wouldn’t have dared cross them. They’ve obviously slid - maybe since DS was born?

Some of you are being very kind to me. Thank you. I feel so despondent tonight and it’s nice to feel supported.

Teen years can be really hard so im gonna go against the grain and say I'd use more carrot and less stick. She was likely feeling silly about the food and asking her again embarrassed her, I'd have ordered some fries or something for the table to share instead of asking her again.
One energy drink won't kill her, I'd have asked for it and emptied it but not grilled her on where she got it or threatened to phone her friends parents. That was always going to end in an argument.

I really will be taking it all on board but have to disagree that most of it’s normal. Threatening to smash your dad’s face in for asking what you want to eat in a gorgeous pub whilst all having a great night with friends is not acceptable, not normal and it’ll never play out like that again because she’ll be taken straight home - as per the advice given on this thread.

I think you misunderstood, this is unacceptable behaviour but it is normal for teenagers to say outrageous things like this even in public. Yes, you take them home or take them outside for a word. But the idea that things like this won’t happen with a grumpy teen who thinks your “gorgeous pub” is actually “vile” and isn’t having a “great time” but feeling forced to be a show pony during an enforced family friends night out. That is so very normal and common. It’s a phase. They do grow out of it. I know this is annoying, just like all the advice I got when pregnant with my first and the “first time mum” comments. But honestly, you are a first time mum to a teen. Go to the teen boards and you’ll see your DD isn’t anywhere near out of control. A forbidden energy drink, swearing, a slap on the arm, a public embarrassment….it’s all par for the course.

this .your husband and you need to be singing from the same hymn sheet . So important. Forget About the past and what you have done for her . Both sit down . Form your rules and consequences and stick to them . Then have a calm chat with her.

I remember being like your daughter around that age OP: I also recall feeling terrible about myself and split between needing my mum desperately but also wanting to get away from my parents... i was atrocious at times. It passed. Stay calm and loving but with clear boundaries . Your little girl will one day be a lovely woman who enjoys spending time with you.

I'm shocked at your responses here op. You urgently need to take a course in parenting skills. Teens can be arseholes but it's not hard to see why things are escalating.

As parents, it is your job to hold the room for your dcs and to remain solid. Right now, you’re both as reactive as your dd and you’ve created a dynamic of passing the bomb to see who will cry or explode.

It’s bloody hard parenting teens. Of course your dd’s behaviour is unacceptable but I don’t think you’re acting in a consistent way to get better results. I know what it’s like. I clash with my 14 yo dd. But if she acted the way your dd is acting, she would absolutely know about it.

You’re going to have to hold it together for your dd now to turn it around. She may perceive you as weak as a pp said, however, having that much power is scary for your dd and because of this she’s going to up the anti. What this actually is, is her crying out for boundaries and consistency. So you need to get that back. As you’re struggling emotionally, you could do with some support. Clearly that’s not coming from your dh so try and get it elsewhere or have some therapy if finances permit. And your dh also needs to do the same.

If your dd isn’t enjoying the trips to the theatre etc, they aren’t pleasurable to her, they’re a chore. She may well be putting these in the same category as homework so I’d stop them for the time being. Keep things light and do what she wants, which will probably be a city shopping trip with a spot of lunch.

It’s normal she is wrapped up in her own world and doesn’t want to spend time with you. It’s bewildering when that happens but developmentally normal. Just because you (and I) were screaming out for some love and attention at this age, it doesn’t mean your daughter is too. Her journey is her own. People on here recommend things like a family games night once a week to get the family together. We don’t have that but do spend some time together, the 3 of us, dh, dd and me.

The restaurant, your dd absolutely should have been taken home immediately. The hitting, her phone should had been confiscated and not returned because she was contrite. Of course she was. The question is, would she have remained contrite had you removed it for the time decided upon or would she have got angry again? The best consequences, however, are natural. She’s handy with her fists. I would be sitting here down and telling her if she is violent with anyone again, you will be removing her from her martial arts permanently. And mean it.

The internet / telephone controls are very useful for teens struggling to switch off. We are lucky that dd isn’t addicted in this way, but not everyone can self regulate.