13 year old daughter is out of control - Please help me.

[NewEnglandDeli]

Hi,

This may be a long one as I don’t want to drip feed, but I would really appreciate you sticking with this and offering any advice as i’m so lost. I feel like such a failure and I don’t know what on Earth to do. She is ruining my life.

This child comes from a stable, loving home. I kid you not when I tell you she is showered with love. She is told, and shown, often how loved she is. She also wants for nothing, as we are incredibly lucky to have financial stability - Maybe this is the problem. She has too much. I’ll caveat this with saying we are starting to feel the pinch like many, we are both self employed and things haven’t been marvellous this year. We are facing the new year with some worry and trepidation like so many others, but our daughter doesn’t know this. She still has everything she could want or need & it’s always drummed in to her how fortunate she is.

My house is an open home. Her friends are always here, i’m always hosting parties and organising days out with her friends and their parents (We are all good friends as we met when our girls were 2 and they all went through school together) She has a good social life, loves school, is a really popular kid and she also goes to martial arts classes 2 times per week where she’s met some new friends and is excelling. She is brilliant at martial arts and I was hoping it would instil respect and discipline- It hasn’t. She’s going worse as time goes on.

We have a younger son who idolises his big sister. He’s only 4 and she does get jealous of him sometimes but they are very close. It breaks my heart to watch how scared he looks when she kicks off. I also can’t stomach watching him observing her when she swears and speaks to us like shit. This innocent little boy will think it’s ok to talk to his parents this way if this carries on. I cannot allow this.

In Primary school she was a model pupil. Literally the perfect child. She shone academically, was incredibly polite, enthusiastic and in Y6 became Head Girl of the school. I couldn’t have wished
for more. Since starting Secondary school she has slowly changed. She’s in Y8 and each passing week she gets worse. Luckily, her school work isn’t suffering and she treats her teachers with the respect that they deserve but I mean at home, she is becoming unrecognisable.

We expected the usual teen strops, eye rolling, not wanting to “hang around” with us anymore, and it did start off like that, but now she’s become aggressive- slamming doors, threatening violence, swearing, totally overreacting at the slightest request such as tidying her absolute pig sty of a room.

She is permanently on her phone. Laughing, joking on Facetime, scrolling Tick Tock and Snapchat. I took her away in the October half term, just she and I. Her brother and dad stayed home. Her phone remained her constant companion and in the end I had a go at her about putting her bloody phone down and enjoying some quality time with her mother. I’d have killed for that at her age. I came from an unstable home due to a dad that a womaniser and a
criminal and a mum that wasn’t around for
me as much as she should have been (Although she and I are fine now and she openly
admits her past faults) I always swore my kids would feel loved and secure and so “one on one” time is very important to me. I occasionally take her to the theatre, for dinner etc. She never particularly wants to be there but I do it anyway so she knows that I want to spend time with her and that she is so important to me. In a nutshell she certainly does get time and attention.

I’d be here all night if I gave all of the examples of her behaviour but i’ll share 3 incidents this week -

Bonfire night we were at the local pub for dinner before the fireworks display. We were with friends and their daughters who are friends with my 2 children. My husband asked our daughter what she wanted for her dinner and she replied with “Nothing, it’s vile in here”…. 10 minutes later we had all ordered and she looked like she regretted her decision, so he asked her again. Her response this time was a very loud “I said nothing. Shut your face before I smash it in”

To say that I was disgusted, embarrassed and heartbroken was an understatement. The whole pub looked at her. Her dad looked like he wanted to cry, and whilst I love him very much he is a bit useless at all of this. He’s never been the disciplinarian, he is anything for a quiet life. He will rarely talk about her behaviour to her. He will either brush it under the carpet and leave me to try and deal with it, or he’ll say to me that he can’t do this anymore, he can’t live with her whilst she is like this and he feels like he doesn’t want to be in our home.

Second example this week was Friday night. She came home from school with a Monster energy drink (She had it hidden) She knows quite well these aren’t allowed, it’s non negotiable. I found it, asked where it had come from and she said her friend gave it to her. I’m friends with this kid’s
mum and dad and so said i’d call them about it as I know for a fact their child isn’t allowed these drinks. She exploded. Called me and her dad the world’s worst parents, said she hates us, we are “Fucking rats and fucking grasses and she hopes we die” She began screaming and crying like a lunatic. Her little brother’s face :( He was so scared. I can’t continue to let him witness this.

After these 2 incidents I took her phone away: She did appear sorry and more pleasant and so it was reinstated. I’m no angel. I will shout and berate her for her behaviour, I don’t let it go. I lose my shit over it and when I’m calm I talk and try and reason and understand but she cannot answer why she behaves this way. She says she doesn’t know and that she doesn’t think it’s “that bad”

The last example was tonight. Laughing and joking all night on the phone with her friends. I popped my head in to say Goodnight and she said “Where’s my food?” In that awful, disrespectful manner that she so often uses. I asked her to explain what she meant as she had her dinner when she came from school. Her reply “That didn’t fill me up. I thought you were making soup” When I explained i’d made the soup but didn’t think she’d like it, she started screaming that she’s neglected, and that she’ll go and make a “fucking sandwich” She flounced out of her room and then she punched me in the arm with hatred in her face.

I squared up to her, I honestly wanted to slap her face. I have had ENOUGH. All I could think is how fucking DARE SHE!!! It’s getting out of control. Hitting me! Who the hell does she thinks she is. Seriously, she wants for nothing, loved and cared for. Why on earth is she doing this to me? I said to her “You have gone too fucking far now, how dare you”

She laughed in my face and called me a
dickhead. I absolutely lost it, I wooled her by her head to her bedroom, I went nuclear. I took her phone, remote control, everything of value to her. I told her what a disappointment she’d become and that she was a devastatingly bad example to her impressionable little brother. I then started sobbing, begging her to explain why she behaves this way. She couldn’t answer. I told her I hated who she had become because it’s the truth. I cannot stand her anymore. She was warned that this is it. She’s fucked up monumentally. The phone has gone, she is grounded for the foreseeable future, she is confined to her bedroom.

I’m not proud of my actions tonight but I’ve put up with this for so long. My heart is shattered. She’s vile, it’s as simple as that.

I have no idea where i’ve gone so wrong. We’ve always had boundaries, she’d always respected them until this last year. She was a wonderful kid and I was so proud of her but now she is truly unpleasant and i’m left feeling like the world’s
biggest failure as a parent.

Please can anyone offer advice. How the hell do I deal with this? What can I do? Why on Earth has she become so awful?

My only thought is to speak to her martial arts teacher and ask him for help. I literally don’t know what else to do?

I've only now just read all your responses. You assaulting a child is actually the most serious thing in your OP. It doesn't matter how much you felt provoked, or your hormonal state. That's number 1. You need to address it as a priority, you can't be a good parent if you're moved to violence.That sort of physical abuse is traumatising for children. I repeat - it doesn't matter what your daughter did, you crossed the line into physical violence and you need to make sure that never happens again.

@Apollonia1
I totally agree with PPs that in the restaurant she should have been taken home immediately. But genuine question - if she had refused to move, what should parents do? They can't physically drag a resisting teenager out of a building

You cannot physically force them. The tactic that worked best for us was to approach the situation like you would a freaking out and spooked horse. You approach them with gentleness and then persuade them in baby steps. So I’d leave my seat and go over by them and say “That was uncalled for, let’s take a break and have a chat about what made you feel the need to speak to your father like that” …”come on…let’s go to the car and you can tell me what’s bothering you.” And once you’re in the car you don’t
launch into shouting and berating, you shut up, and you listen to your teen and you keep an open mind, and then you jointly decide if she goes home or goes back in with you. It all depends on what she says in private, what you feel is best. If for example, she wants to go in and apologise and join the meal, you can consider that request if she’s genuine and say for a second forgot herself and was just doing teenage talking smack (the whole tough act thing).

I was going to write similar @NewEnglandDeli - your attitude is very telling even from your posts on here. You are giving her what you wanted at her age, and because she wants different things you are ignoring those messages and casting her as a bad person because she is not you.
But she is not you! And she is not part of you either.
As long as your view of her goodness (and your own goodness) is based on her being like you, the more she will feel invalidated and pushed away. And the more desperate you will be. No one wants to feel like a bad person for being themselves, and you are the most important relationship in her life, think about how difficult this is for her to deal with? If you can stop the controlling and judgemental behaviour and start listening, that would help. But to do that you will need to truly understand what it is to be two separate people.
Good luck!

@Onnabugeisha Thanks, lots to think about there. If someone said to me "shut your face before I smash it in", my natural reaction would not be to talk gently and calmly to them. But I can see that it would defuse the situation, so looks like a good technique.
I'm trying to imagine the situation - I don't have teens yet, so if my lovely niece or nephew said it to me (which they never would!), I think I would be so utterly shocked that I'd be speechless and would walk away without saying anything.

@Apollonia1 I agree. It’s not a natural reaction and I wonder if being calm and gentle instead of firm and disgusted often leads them to thinking it’s acceptable?

As I say, taking everything on board and will learn from this.

What do you do if your teen will not talk to you though.

My teen is very private and I never hear what's going on.

So I never find out why she is in a mood rude etc. Tho she will apologise.

Op I suggest you report your own thread and get it moved to the teenagers topic.

Well perhaps it’s because I’ve had teens (youngest is 18 now). The “shut up or Ill smash your face in” from a 13yr old I would find amusing tbh. It’s not a serious threat. She’s not going to actually get out her chair and smack her dad in a pub. Teens say this stuff to each other when annoyed…it’s rude, it’s unacceptable, it’s purposely meant to shock you. So you don’t let them manipulate your feelings.

Onnabugeisha · Today 09:09

“ScrollingLeaves · Today 08:48
“I just can’t be arsed. I don’t know why you’re behaving like this and I can’t be arsed with the drama”

“Anyone reading your posts knows he can’t be ‘arsed’! So does your daughter and it’s not a good sort of father.to have.”

Better that than the OPs parenting that involves berating, swearing, physical intimidation, assault, taking everything of value, saying you hate her, you can’t stand her, then sobbing and doing the why are you making me do this to you/why are you so horrible routine, and then not only grounding her but confining her to her room.

All for what is typical challenging arsehole teen behaviour.

Onnagh
The angry mother and passive (aggressive probably) father are a text-nook combination. They are often inter- dependent.

No, calm and gentle doesn’t mean it’s acceptable because you’re still having a talk with them about it. They already know it’s rude & unacceptable. The question is why did they say it, the days of don’t do that because I said so are over by the time they are teens. Calm & gentle can still be firm.

Disgusted means you are not allowing for them to be human. You’re quite happy to excuse worse behaviours from yourself due to hormones, medications, and so on but are not appreciating the fact that these same things plus her life can influence her behaviours too. You are calling her vile, wicked, spoilt witch, entitled brat….but you’re not characterising yourself in such a manner when you have been objectively worse behaved than your daughter. You know you are not wicked, vile, spoilt,- you are struggling to be a good parent. You have to understand teens are struggling as well. This is a difficult phase of life and you cannot expect perfect behaviour and obedience during it. Your role is more to model good behaviour, show how to do conflict resolution without resorting to shouting and violence, and act more as a coach with influence and persuasion into adulthood.

Also do not confuse compliance and obedience from having phones taken away with actually addressing the root causes of her behaviours. It’s a valid method of punishment and control that creates calm on the surface but the phones are not the cause of most teen behaviour. Those of us who were teens before there were phones are witness to this. You still need to do all the other role modelling and coaching as well.

And frankly I’m not surprised your DH isn’t supporting you as your methods of discipline are abusive. His washing his hands of it isn’t good, he should be putting himself between you and your DD to defuse the situations and protect your DD. But perhaps you calling him useless and so on has him without the confidence to do this, so he’s doing the silent protest.

@ScrollingLeaves
The angry mother and passive (aggressive probably) father are a text-nook combination. They are often inter- dependent.

Agreed. It’s also text book with the sexes reversed. Angry father and passive mother.

@Onnabugeisha Unfortunately I didn’t find the threatening comment amusing. I found it incredibly disrespectful, unwarranted and a massive overreaction to being asked what she would like to eat.

I’m working harder on picking my battles, but i’d never, ever let something like that slide. On that night in question, I leaned over the table, took her phone from her hand immediately and said underneath my breath, firmly “How dare you speak to your father like that. Your behaviour is disgusting”

Problem is, she got her phone back as soon as we got home. She said she “didn’t mean it” and “don’t know why I said it”

I know from this thread it should have been handed differently, but when you’re in shock at such awful behaviour it’s hard to stay focused and calm.

I get teen angst, I get hormones, I get it being a difficult time in their lives, but fucking hell her behaviour is NOT acceptable. That night in the pub was the straw the broke the camels back. There was no reason for her behaviour, there was so incident that led to it, there rarely is.

We all can see that I have many faults from this thread but I refuse to believe anything i’ve done warrants that behaviour in the pub. We were having a lovely evening, it came from nowhere.

@NewEnglandDeli
Unfortunately I didn’t find the threatening comment amusing. I found it incredibly disrespectful, unwarranted and a massive overreaction to being asked what she would like to eat.

Surely you can see that I said it was all those things? rude, shocking, disrespectful- but ultimately amusing as it’s obvious and pretty pathetic attempt to push your buttons and get a rise out of you. Teens love to push buttons. Don’t let them push your buttons.

Can I once again make this clear as I’ve tried to many a time. I’m not routinely violent. I very, very, very often walk away from her when she goes off. I pick my battles - something i’ve started to do more as time is going on.

Yes, there’s been occasions that i’ve lost it, shouted, told her to get out of my sight, not softly softly tried to talk to her - Although I always do that once she has calmed down, or when I have calmed down if i’ve raised my voice. I’m human, I’ve reacted in an incorrect manner at times and I fully own that but I assure you that she doesn’t see a constantly violent, screaming, lunatic of a mother - as much as some of you may like to believe that she does.

I take everything said on the chin. I have major work to do. It will be my priority, but her behaviour is VERY often not a reflection of what she is seeing.

DH is often useless. He prefers to ignore, never address it, never “discipline” He actively wants me to take that lead. Let’s not make out that he has no confidence because of me. He chooses to “not be arsed” because that’s who he is as a
person and parent.

I'd also be interested where she learns to speak like this. If peers, is she being bullied or pressurised?

There was no reason for her behaviour, there was so incident that led to it, there rarely is. We all can see that I have many faults from this thread but I refuse to believe anything i’ve done warrants that behaviour in the pub. We were having a lovely evening, it came from nowhere.

Thats just it though. It’s not about what you deserve or do not deserve. Teens act out and are asshats because it’s a phase. It’s no different from a toddler having a tantrum…did you do anything to warrant your DD at 2 flinging herself to the floor, howling and screaming because there’s no blackcurrant squash in the house? Or pushing food off the lowest shelves in Tescos while laughing her head off & running away thinking it’s some hilarious game to run amok? No, I’m sure you did not although I am sure you have had similar scenarios. We all have our war stories of the terrible twos.

Teenage years are a phase just the same, ask parents of teens, we all have our war stories too about how difficult, rude, obstinate they can be. It’s not transactional in that if you do x, that warrants y back from her. Life is more complex for them now. They are struggling with how to handle adult emotions and adult awareness of the world. At 13 a girl is learning about predators and possibly being raped. About the climate crisis. About suicide and death. About the need to work for money to eat and house herself one day. The pressure of school and grades and “your future” is on. Your body is changing and becoming completely unrecognisable. You’re having sexual feelings and perhaps realising you’re not straight. You have peer groups and the pressure to fit in socially. It’s not an easy life phase.

In other words, the reasons for her behaviour likely are complex and multifaceted, coming from multiple sources.

You mightn't be routinely violent and tbh while I understand her behaviour is very challenging, you physically assaulting her is deadly serious and dealing with that should be the priority. She's still a child, and it's rightly illegal to assault a child and you don't seem to be taking that on board - even above you don't mention it other than say 'incorrect manner.' Countless parents have children who behave in challenging ways without resorting to violence.

@Onnabugeisha That does make sense and I appreciate you explaining it. I have lots of learning to do.

It’s everywhere. Just watch a Marvel superhero film and it’s insult after insult, non serious threat after non serious threat, swaggering bravado, acting tough. Teens are still learning that life isn’t a film and that how you see adults act in them, isn’t ever acceptable in real life.

Thanks @Onnabugeisha . Mine are not into marvel movies or similar so I haven't kept track of them

Sorry I’m a bit slow to come back.

This doesn’t feel like normal behaviour for a teen and I would be concerned she’s in context with someone online who is encouraging her to see you as the enemy and isolating her from the family. I don’t mean to scare you but the internet is full of people ready to groom impressionable young teenage girls. I would be very concerned about the amount of time she’s effectively spending unsupervised on that phone.

Teens yes are volatile and some more so than others but this sounds extreme. It is not normal for a teen to hit their parent.

Thank you! I am trying my best to share my experience with you- have 3 DC successfully through the teen years. Not without me also doing a bit of shouting and shutting myself in my bedroom, tears, and self doubt, and feeling like a mug by keeping on trying to reach out to a teen that refuses to talk and seems to despise you for no reason. It’s super hard, but you cannot take it personally. And they do come through it in the end.

I had horrible parents too and swore my DC would never go through what I went through. We made the mistake of saying “you don’t know how lucky you are” a few too many times. But predictably, while we don’t make the same mistakes our parents made, we do make new mistakes! So it’s really refreshing that you are taking everything on board and obviously what works for my DC or anyone else’s DC may not work for you and your DD. But you have a lot of options you can pick from and adapt to hopefully repair things and get through these years.

We all can see that I have many faults from this thread but I refuse to believe anything i’ve done warrants that behaviour in the pub. We were having a lovely evening, it came from nowhere.

Agreed, her behaviour was awful, but somehow it seems from what you say that you have no idea how you, and the whole family dynamic with your DH is contributing to and perpetuating this.

You are doing brilliantly by admitting things you have done and said, but you don’t seem to understand the implications. These seem clearer to people looking in from the outside, based on what you have ssid, and the implications are that, for one reason or another, you are an abusive, enmeshed, parent.

You do need help imo with therapy, reading about teens, anger management, hormone care…..whatever you can do.

There have been some excellent points raised, which I'll try not to rehash.

She does behave like an entitled little witch - she really does.
You need to reframe your thinking and your use of language. Repeatedly you have spoken as if your child is bad or evil. You need to seperate the behaviour from the person. See the difference - "you are an entitled little witch" vs "this behaviour is unacceptable" "we will not accept swearing" "go to your room to take a break, and come back and talk to me once you will stop yelling"....

Please do not take MMA classes away as a punishment - physical activity is key to mental health and this will have an overall detrimental impact. Restrictions apply to social activities (phone/parties/hanging with friends), not school, family events or MMA.

When you are both calm, take the time for a family meeting to talk calmly with your daughter. "We're concerned how much your behaviour has changed. Is there a reason for this? We can help you if there is." I would not be surprised based on your comments if your daughter is acting out partly from trying to carve out her own life from you both (normal but some behaviour is not) and feeling pressure on being the perfect daughter and being screamed at/then crying by you.

If not, then be clear on boundaries. Reset with your daughter that yelling, screaming and violence is absolutely unacceptable on both sides. Admit your involvement here - be clear you are disappointed in yourself and the way you have been reacting to your daughter's behaviour is not ok and you are working on this. Your husband needs to lead this conversation. Set out the consequences for any unacceptable behaviour.

Stop forcing on your daughter activities for bonding based on what you want. Yes, it is important for family events, but if you want to spend time with her think more about what she enjoys. Even if you don't! My poor mum came along to all the terrible movies I loved as a teen as this worked well for us - see and movie, then grab lunch/afternoon tea/dinner afterwards as the movie was a great kick off talking point.

If you have another event which is escalating to violence and you lose control, remove yourself immediately. Leave the room/leave the house, whatever you need to do. There is never a justification for violence against your child during a verbal argument. I see you have defended this multiple times, what you need to realise is you should have de-escalated before it reached the point of your daughter punching you. Dragging someone by their hair is assault.

Yeah a family we know (really lovely loving middle class /camping trips /thoughtful well educated etc) same age child as op sounds similar behaviour and the mum got to end of tether after some appalling behaviour lost it and shoved him. He went to school and reported her now the authorities are involved.