13 year old daughter is out of control - Please help me.

[NewEnglandDeli]

Hi,

This may be a long one as I don’t want to drip feed, but I would really appreciate you sticking with this and offering any advice as i’m so lost. I feel like such a failure and I don’t know what on Earth to do. She is ruining my life.

This child comes from a stable, loving home. I kid you not when I tell you she is showered with love. She is told, and shown, often how loved she is. She also wants for nothing, as we are incredibly lucky to have financial stability - Maybe this is the problem. She has too much. I’ll caveat this with saying we are starting to feel the pinch like many, we are both self employed and things haven’t been marvellous this year. We are facing the new year with some worry and trepidation like so many others, but our daughter doesn’t know this. She still has everything she could want or need & it’s always drummed in to her how fortunate she is.

My house is an open home. Her friends are always here, i’m always hosting parties and organising days out with her friends and their parents (We are all good friends as we met when our girls were 2 and they all went through school together) She has a good social life, loves school, is a really popular kid and she also goes to martial arts classes 2 times per week where she’s met some new friends and is excelling. She is brilliant at martial arts and I was hoping it would instil respect and discipline- It hasn’t. She’s going worse as time goes on.

We have a younger son who idolises his big sister. He’s only 4 and she does get jealous of him sometimes but they are very close. It breaks my heart to watch how scared he looks when she kicks off. I also can’t stomach watching him observing her when she swears and speaks to us like shit. This innocent little boy will think it’s ok to talk to his parents this way if this carries on. I cannot allow this.

In Primary school she was a model pupil. Literally the perfect child. She shone academically, was incredibly polite, enthusiastic and in Y6 became Head Girl of the school. I couldn’t have wished
for more. Since starting Secondary school she has slowly changed. She’s in Y8 and each passing week she gets worse. Luckily, her school work isn’t suffering and she treats her teachers with the respect that they deserve but I mean at home, she is becoming unrecognisable.

We expected the usual teen strops, eye rolling, not wanting to “hang around” with us anymore, and it did start off like that, but now she’s become aggressive- slamming doors, threatening violence, swearing, totally overreacting at the slightest request such as tidying her absolute pig sty of a room.

She is permanently on her phone. Laughing, joking on Facetime, scrolling Tick Tock and Snapchat. I took her away in the October half term, just she and I. Her brother and dad stayed home. Her phone remained her constant companion and in the end I had a go at her about putting her bloody phone down and enjoying some quality time with her mother. I’d have killed for that at her age. I came from an unstable home due to a dad that a womaniser and a
criminal and a mum that wasn’t around for
me as much as she should have been (Although she and I are fine now and she openly
admits her past faults) I always swore my kids would feel loved and secure and so “one on one” time is very important to me. I occasionally take her to the theatre, for dinner etc. She never particularly wants to be there but I do it anyway so she knows that I want to spend time with her and that she is so important to me. In a nutshell she certainly does get time and attention.

I’d be here all night if I gave all of the examples of her behaviour but i’ll share 3 incidents this week -

Bonfire night we were at the local pub for dinner before the fireworks display. We were with friends and their daughters who are friends with my 2 children. My husband asked our daughter what she wanted for her dinner and she replied with “Nothing, it’s vile in here”…. 10 minutes later we had all ordered and she looked like she regretted her decision, so he asked her again. Her response this time was a very loud “I said nothing. Shut your face before I smash it in”

To say that I was disgusted, embarrassed and heartbroken was an understatement. The whole pub looked at her. Her dad looked like he wanted to cry, and whilst I love him very much he is a bit useless at all of this. He’s never been the disciplinarian, he is anything for a quiet life. He will rarely talk about her behaviour to her. He will either brush it under the carpet and leave me to try and deal with it, or he’ll say to me that he can’t do this anymore, he can’t live with her whilst she is like this and he feels like he doesn’t want to be in our home.

Second example this week was Friday night. She came home from school with a Monster energy drink (She had it hidden) She knows quite well these aren’t allowed, it’s non negotiable. I found it, asked where it had come from and she said her friend gave it to her. I’m friends with this kid’s
mum and dad and so said i’d call them about it as I know for a fact their child isn’t allowed these drinks. She exploded. Called me and her dad the world’s worst parents, said she hates us, we are “Fucking rats and fucking grasses and she hopes we die” She began screaming and crying like a lunatic. Her little brother’s face :( He was so scared. I can’t continue to let him witness this.

After these 2 incidents I took her phone away: She did appear sorry and more pleasant and so it was reinstated. I’m no angel. I will shout and berate her for her behaviour, I don’t let it go. I lose my shit over it and when I’m calm I talk and try and reason and understand but she cannot answer why she behaves this way. She says she doesn’t know and that she doesn’t think it’s “that bad”

The last example was tonight. Laughing and joking all night on the phone with her friends. I popped my head in to say Goodnight and she said “Where’s my food?” In that awful, disrespectful manner that she so often uses. I asked her to explain what she meant as she had her dinner when she came from school. Her reply “That didn’t fill me up. I thought you were making soup” When I explained i’d made the soup but didn’t think she’d like it, she started screaming that she’s neglected, and that she’ll go and make a “fucking sandwich” She flounced out of her room and then she punched me in the arm with hatred in her face.

I squared up to her, I honestly wanted to slap her face. I have had ENOUGH. All I could think is how fucking DARE SHE!!! It’s getting out of control. Hitting me! Who the hell does she thinks she is. Seriously, she wants for nothing, loved and cared for. Why on earth is she doing this to me? I said to her “You have gone too fucking far now, how dare you”

She laughed in my face and called me a
dickhead. I absolutely lost it, I wooled her by her head to her bedroom, I went nuclear. I took her phone, remote control, everything of value to her. I told her what a disappointment she’d become and that she was a devastatingly bad example to her impressionable little brother. I then started sobbing, begging her to explain why she behaves this way. She couldn’t answer. I told her I hated who she had become because it’s the truth. I cannot stand her anymore. She was warned that this is it. She’s fucked up monumentally. The phone has gone, she is grounded for the foreseeable future, she is confined to her bedroom.

I’m not proud of my actions tonight but I’ve put up with this for so long. My heart is shattered. She’s vile, it’s as simple as that.

I have no idea where i’ve gone so wrong. We’ve always had boundaries, she’d always respected them until this last year. She was a wonderful kid and I was so proud of her but now she is truly unpleasant and i’m left feeling like the world’s
biggest failure as a parent.

Please can anyone offer advice. How the hell do I deal with this? What can I do? Why on Earth has she become so awful?

My only thought is to speak to her martial arts teacher and ask him for help. I literally don’t know what else to do?

This isn't a secure and stable home. You over react. You swing from anger and violence to nastily berating her to emotionally manipulating her with tears and 'your sadness'.
It's not a loving home. Your love is dependent on compliance. As soon as you feel any challenge you react badly and your DH withdraws. It's a teens job to challenge you.
In times of difficulty we often revert to our own parenting examples. In your case an unstable mother and absent father.
Your DD can't choose a drink but can choose not to order a meal. Were you going to leave a teen with an empty setting whilst everyone else ate? That's where the restaurant issue started. At home you give DD an early dinner and react badly when she's hungry. Do you know how many calories a teen needs?
In the OP you deliberately fudged your violence by using a word most posters wouldn't understand. You're manipulating to put yourself in the best light whilst dragging your DD horrendously.
If as a PP suggested you get DD's hormones checked then you also need to get your own and your vitamin levels. Then you need to accept a stable home isn't about holidays. It's about emotional consistency and non-violence. Good parenting isn't about theatre trips. It's about reading parenting books for the stage your DC is at. Going on a parenting course. Dealing with your own triggers and emotions.
You're scaring your younger DC. You're showing you're only calm when in tight control of everyone else. And that will make your youngest compliant because they're frightened. I've been that younger DC. You're teaching them a rubbish relationship dynamic and blueprint.

You've received lots of solid advice on here so I won't echo what's been said above.

However, one thing stands out a bit to me: do you think it's possible that in your household, physical force is seen as an acceptable way to solve problems?

I note that you said she wouldn't be bullied because of her strong abilities/training in martial arts.

If she is aware that the threat of physical force is enough to keep bullies away, and if she's - even indirectly - being encouraged to do so, then perhaps that might explain some of the the violent language and physical outbursts.

I don't mean that she should stop the martial arts, or indeed that kids that practice martial arts are violent - I just mean that if she's encouraged to have that "don't mess with me, I'm stronger than you" type of attitude outside of the martial arts class, then it's perhaps understandable that she's using that at home, too.

I've read this thread several times.
You sound needy and overinvolved and it sounds like it's more for yourself than for her.

You seem to hover and micromanage every detail of her life.

It sounds like the holiday and theater are more for you than for her. It doesn't sound like she likes either but goes along to appease you.
Do you have any friends of your own you see one on one?

Why do you have to attend the church group and martial arts lessons every time?

The weekly pub meal. Whose idea is that?
She's probably outgrown it but doesn't want to tell you that.

Hi OP, I would insist she gives you her phone pin and I would check her phone consistently. Children do not get phone privacy in this house. I would allow no phones or other electronics in her room overnight. This wouldn't even be as a punishment, just as a general safeguarding measure.

After seeing some of the shit that popped up on my DDs tiktok and Snapchat I told her she had to delete the apps for good. I found that she had downloaded them again a couple of weeks later, so I then threatened her with no phone at all if she disobeyed me again. The apps haven't been downloaded since. She is now 15 and (touchwood) I have had very limited instances of "typical teen behaviour" and disrespect. My daughter KNOWS I would follow though on the no phone thing though.

You need to be massively firm with her. Your husband needs to step up. You cannot let her rule the roost. I think that lax parenting makes a child feel insecure and it is firm boundaries that keep them in line.

If my daughter had spoken to me like yours did in the pub.....well God help her is all I can say.

I was a NIGHTMARE teenager myself. I would've loved to have trips out with my mum, but she wasn't interested in that sort of thing. I do stuff with my daughter, just the 2 of us, but it would certainly depend on her behaviour.

Good luck, it's not easy all this parenting malarkey!!

My friend has an 11 year old with similar behaviour. She takes phone away but reinstates it at the first sign of good behaviour so the girl is good enough to get it back but then carries on. No phone back to normal, no phone for a while then set times. My friend also spoils her with days out, she’s like you, she can’t bear not to do them. Be the parent though and stop them, she clearly doesn’t deserve them.

I had so much sympathy until I got to the part where you physically assaulted your child.
Of course she "piped down" - she must have been absolutely terrified. She's 13 and you're a grown adult, dragging her by her hair?! What the fuck?! You're worried about your precious 4 year old witnessing her being gobby, but it's fine that he might see you hurting his sister? How do you think he would have felt if he'd seen that??
She's not your friend - stop forcing her to spend time with you. She doesn't want to. She is clearly a very frustrated angry teenager, and you need to get to the bottom of why. Your behaviour last night was absolutely abhorrent, and I wouldn't be surprised if she tells school what has happened. You've been so blasé about your actions, like it's fine because she "piped down", so it obviously worked so you don't regret it and it's all fine.

It's not fine, she will remember that for the rest of her life.

It's hard but I think you need to separate the behaviour from the child - talk about how you hate the behaviour she's exhibiting, not how much you hate her, if that makes sense. Put really firm boundaries in place and natural consequences but in a "bored policeman" kind of way, like you would with a toddler. Having two of you raging and shouting is never going to end well, and you can only control how you react, not how she behaves. Teenagers can be rotten but have faith that you will get through this, although it'll be incredibly rocky if you carry on as you all are now.

The phone needs removal in the first place. You say she is generally accompanied anyway, so she doesn't need one. I would then be removing tablets, laptops, etc. for every occasion of bad behaviour. When she has to explain to teachers she can not do homework and get consequences there too she will make the connection! Reevaluate when she is older and based on improved behaviour. Tech altogether is a privilege. She wants tech, She earns it by both behaviour and working for it.
Those saying it's normal teenage attitude, it really isn't. My grandmother was working in a factory at 14, and I wouldn't have dared as a teenager. My teenagers didn't either. The only ones I knew who did were either very spoilt or the other extreme and from 'interesting' families. I really believe Infantilizing and low expectations of children have led to this toddler like behaviour.

You have had some great advice on here,
I wouldnt have my 13 year old on snap chat or Tiktok I think social media is damaging for kids.
My kids don't have this.

My kids know that just because their friends might have it doesn't mean that they need it.
I always tell them why I make the decisions I do such as this as a parent.
I explain I want them to turn out well.
That I don't want them to be exposed to the rubbish on social media platforms because they are kids.
Expectations are important to set for kids.
So is discipline, and nipping things in the bud quicker, you need to get stricter.

Always explain why you are doing what you do and keep calm.
You will feel better and more in control that way.

Taking everything away as you have done is a good start I would do this for a lengthy period and I would want to see some change and her actively making an effort to show good behaviour before she got anything back.
Any slip up it would be taken away again.

Best of luck.

I’m sorry but this is too extreme. You shouldn’t punish teenage tantrums by removing their ability to do school work and get decent grades. This leads to a battle of wills & a disengaged teen where you could end up ruining their life chances. If them “respecting you” is more important than their education, then education must not be as important as you say it is.

You and DH need to get on the same page before approaching this situation. It won't do you any good to come at this from different angles. He needs to step up and you need to calm down. His indifference and lack of discipline is bad, but so is your screaming and crying (and particularly the violence which is never acceptable).

I think you need to concentrate on natural consequences for poor behaviour rather than squaring up to your DD. She has to understand that fighting you isn't what happens, it's losing her phone or her MMA classes or not having friends over, etc.

You've had some very good advice on this thread so hopefully there is a way to move forward for you.

If I’m reading right, her parent see saws from dinner treats to berating her and yelling at her. It’s hard, but you need to be calm. No wailing at her and asking her why she’s like that-that will frighten her and make her behaviour worse. Don’t react so much. Tell her calmly you won’t put up with the cheek and leave her room.Don’t let the narrative of ‘we give her a perfect life, why is she like that’ build up. The relationship you want with her sounds very intense and based around what you think should be her perfect life. Does she actually want to visit the theatre and go out for dinner with you? Read how to talk so teens will listen. Fight the big battles-not the small ones. And realise that while rules and boundaries are useful, positive engagement and understanding will go a long way with teenagers. Your role will become less important as they move to being independent young adults.

I missed the part where you dragged her by the hair.
That is assault op.

At all times you must remain in control, and especially the swearing and violence ~ if you lost it, she will lost it and a downward spiral will begin. You are the adult, and at all times you can not lose your composure. She is still a child, one that sounds like she is seriously struggling. Try compassion with firm consequences.

'I can see you have had a bad day, I am always here if you want to talk about it, but I can't have that language/door slamming in the house dd, so if it doesn't not stop we will be turning off the wifi. Wifi is a privilege and one that comes with conditions that you are respectful at home'

Said in a flat statement, no shouting or screaming. Every single thing you say has to be said with a measure of control and authority.

Strangely she is likely to be acting up and her behaviour is worsening due to the lack of boundaries, violence and out of control parents. Calm down. You can do this. Talk to her quietly. Understand her need to go to her room to calm down, sometimes she will remove herself, so let her and talk to her later about the incident.

Are you sure she isn't being bullied? Scared on line? Groomed even? Her behaviour suggests to me something is going really wrong for her op.

So right !

OP,
take the long term view and
somehow if you can make yourself believe that this is a passing phase, would it help to see things differently?

I am writing as someone not too far from your situation..
I have been punched on my arm a couple of times, told that I am hated, told beratingly not to play the victim and not to start ranting on how I have failed as a mum etc etc and I have often wondered the same "How dare you?!"
Just last weekend things escalated quickly over something trivial during a walk and she brought her fist to my face ! I walked away, but, totally shaken, I will admit !

Like you, I am also trying to be the parent that I feel I didn't have, one who will reason and explain .. And reading this thread and the many wonderful posts here has made me to reconsider my own position.

In Primary school she was a model pupil. Literally the perfect child. She shone academically, was incredibly polite, enthusiastic and in Y6 became Head Girl of the school. I couldn’t have wished for more.

You have come on here and been brilliant in starting to reflect on your on attitudes to parenting and family. You were neglected as a child and your trauma is being reflected in your family dynamics. Your dh is neglecting you and his dc by being a passive parent. He needs sorting out. Was he also abused by his parents? Being a passive parent is being neglectful. I have to say I can't really relate to your phrasing 'I couldn’t have wished for more' Your dd's role is categorically not to fulfil your wishes. It sounds like she is a girl with lots and lots of potential, allow her to grow her wings, don't accompany her everywhere and all that going for dinner / museum/ theatre / trip away is way too much. She is not your mascot or pal, she is her own person, woman to be and if she is rather bright she'll have a string urge to become independent and fulfilling her goals.

All that social media is fantastically detrimental. I know this from first hand experience, it's highly addictive. Delete these apps and get her a dumb phone for a while.

One more thing, be authentic with your dd. Tell her about your past and your childhood (not too much or she'll use it against you) but don't pretend to be some super mum towards her it sounds all rather overbearing. FWIW, I think you dd sounds amazing, a great girl with huge potential, let her be her, find her own path, get lots of age appropriate independence and do away with SM. Good luck.

You pulled her to her bedroom by her hair? Is that real?

It's worth remembering that our teens aren't the same as us or our grandparents. They have been in lockdown. They've lived through a pandemic. There's a war in Europe. All hugely unsettling life events. They're navigating uncertain and unprecedented territories on top of all the usual hormones etc.
Schools are finding cohorts are less mature than previously. Home schooling and lockdown were variable experiences for DCs about to become teens. (And ones who were young teens.)
They deserve more compassion and need stability.

And to add, DD is nearly 12
Doesn't have a phone
So, I don't have the superpower of the bargaining chip that devices and wifi access are😊

As previous poster said, teenagers have had their spectacular behaviour long before phones came to be

Have you talked to the other parents? We sometimes find out about stuff going on with DSD who tells her friends who tell their parents.
i agree with all the other posters who say it seems that you’ve let things get too loose. I’ve got zero teenager experience. But I see colleagues receive messages from their children of the same age asking for more wifi time and know that some have an app on their kid’s phones to monitor all use including content of comms. It might help to reign in / monitor mobile phone use as it seems so important to her.

I read as far as this where you wrote,
“You have gone too fucking far now, how dare you”

OP, I realise how upset you were - and who wouldn’t have been? But when I read that you said this, it seemed clear that, when frustrated or upset, your daughter is quite possibly mirroring the way you behave whenever anything upsets you. You seem evidently very angry in the depths of yourself. It seems possible that there is more at the crux of the problems here than your daughter.

Perhaps it would help if you could look to yourself first by getting some counselling for yourself given all this stress you are under, and then family therapy.

The child’s father, your DH, may seem sweet. But very passive fathers/husbands, who, from the sounds of it, your DH may be, could be causing a lot of trouble themselves too with passive aggressive acts imo as well as stepping in so little that you have to, and so causing you to appear to be like a wicked witch to your daughter.

If she is into martial arts, that is all about self control and doing no harm unless absolutely necessary. Could you speak to her teacher about what’s happening? Someone doing martial arts who can’t control their anger is a worry. If the teacher is good, she should have had this instilled in her.

Otherwise , so much great advice from many posters. It’s really hard parenting teenagers.

Very wise post. I recognise so much of my own situation here.

I will read properly and reply when I have the chance but just to say I’m overwhelmed with the amount of responses and grateful for all of them- even the ones insisting i’m an abusive and wicked mother. I will reflect on all of them and make steps necessary to get this all under control.

@emptythelitterbox No, the pub thing isn’t weekly. It was for Bonfire night. We often get together for occasions such as that, Christmas/Easter etc… She’s with her friends at these gatherings. Not just adults. To be fair, her friends are very hard work for their parents too - my situation is just a tad more extreme.

Church youth group i’m not there for. Martial arts I am, along with the other parents of under 14’s. It’s a requirement that if you’re child is under 14, you stay.

Micromanage - Yes. I do this. I’m a control freak and I swear i’ll be working on this.

Just to add - I do walk away/ignore/pick battles a lot of the time. My mum always tells me to do this. I’m not a violent psychopath who berates her for every little thing, I do often ignore. There’s been occasions where she has really pushed boundaries, used wholly inappropriate language etc and i’ve gotten angry and lost my temper. I don’t mean physical violence, I mean shouting. I know now that’s not the correct way to handle this, but at the time, when pushed to your limits, it’s a natural reaction. It’s clear I must work on this and I swear I will. It doesn’t work and isn’t healthy and so many changes need to be made.

I’m reflecting on my own parenting here. It all feels a bit traumatic. My dad does nothing to help me or make my life easier. He takes from me and always has - he believes i’m there to serve him. He was a womaniser and we didn’t have stability. When my mum finally left him she became emotionally unavailable to us. Her sister was the one who stepped up and was there emotionally. My mum started to socialise far too much and I don’t feel she was there for me. infact she says herself that she wasn’t. There’s some attachment issues there - i’m sure.
She worships my children though and we have a
good relationship now, she is involved in my life but I still don’t feel that security? Weird. She’s still quite emotionally unavailable, that’s who she is as a person I think.

I’m obviously trying too hard to give her what I think she needs - What I didn’t have, when this obviously isn’t right for her.

You need some counselling op, you need to deal with your own stuff - it sounds like you are being triggered every day by your dd and it is really impacting on your ability to calmly parent her and to feel calm in yourself. You sound very anxious and stressed, and dd will pick up on the tension.

Get some help.

I’ve just read your posts in more depth and admit it made me angry to read some of the vitriol aimed at your daughter. Calling her an entitled little witch? Losing control over an energy drink? Pulling her by the hair? If you’re wondering why she shouts mean things at you, maybe she’s mirroring behaviour learned from you. Maybe you need to take a parenting teenager course. Talk to her how you would like to be talked to. Cut her some slack-your style of Uber strict boundaries and treats dependent on whether she’s the perfect child will alienate her such that she can’t wait to leave home.