Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers (& support for their victims) Thread 2

[01Name]

Following on from this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4610023-to-ask-for-your-quotes-from-narcissistic-mothers?page=39&reply=120137262, started by @itsgoodtobehome as a tongue-in-cheek repository for anecdotes of appalling remarks/deeds from parents/siblings with rampant NPD. It morphed into a place where those of us suffering the effects of such behaviour could share experiences, solidarity, advice and support. I hope this thread can continue the good work of the original. Your voice will be heard; your opinion and thoughts matter. You are welcome and valued here.

@UglyNess i can hear your turmoil. I think it’s ingrained in us that we should love our parents and they should love us. I spent 30 years trying to ‘break the cycle’ of her being awful to me like her mother had been to her, and like her mother before had been to her. It was a perpetual rollercoaster but in the end I had to just give up. I then wrote a list of all the things she’d done said not done etc over the years, gave it to someone else to read. They replied ‘Jesus Christ why do you even still speak to this woman’. I now read the list back when I’m feeling unsure and feeling ‘guilty’ again that I’m cutting her out. I’ve done it all - made allowances, made excuses, sacrificed my own peace of mind to accommodate her presence in my life and the final straw came when she started ruining my daughters events….enough. My protective motherly instinct is thankfully 100 💯 intact and I realised my responsibility was looking after the relationships I have with my own daughters and not pass this on. My mother has had counselling and all sorts but can never shift herself out of the perpetual victim mindset. It still hurts me on a daily basis that I don’t have a mother but at least she can’t do any more damage. I hope that helps?

I think some of you may have heard of Bethany Webster?
She speaks of the "Motherwound" and how generational trauma happens.
She has tons of youtube videos- and has been really helpful in my healing
I reached a point when I decided NO MORE.
I knew if I continued with my way of coping I could potentially be miserable for the rest of my life, constantly battling and trying to change, probably wracked with guilt after my mother passes.
My life is precious, and I wasn't prepared to carry this heavy baggage any longer.
My mother ceases to have the impact on me that she once did.

I agree @UglyNess, it is so, so difficult. The other posters here are right with their wise advice, though.

I only achieved some measure of peace when I accepted that nothing I say or do would make any difference. She cannot accept any view other than her own and that will never change. It still hurts, but that acceptance brought a modicum of calm, which is better than nothing.

Before I realised this I took the route of heavy drinking to dull the pain. That, as you may imagine, did not end well. As part of recovering from that period and the addiction I had some counselling from an NHS support service. A couple of years ago my M revealed she was also having counselling ("because of what you've done to me" - my issues had only come about because of my wicked nature, you see, and wilful disobedience. Not a consideration at all that I might have been 'self-medicating' via the wrong route in order to block pain, flashbacks or torment.). Her counsellor suggested mediation with her, my counsellor and me. My counsellor strongly advised against it on all counts but I agreed. I knew I would get no peace if I didn't. It was helpful, though possibly not in the way intended.

Within minutes the "mediation" descended into a diatribe about my many inadequacies and failings while the look of dawning realisation on M's counsellor's stunned face grew more pronounced (my support worker was unsurprised; he had warned his colleague of what was likely to ensue). The poor bloke kept saying things like "but that's not what your daughter said... you're not listening... that's not helpful...", finally ending with "can't you hear what your daughter is saying to you?!" He had been conditioned to expect in me an unreasonable, abusive and unrepentant sociopath and was utterly blindsided. He did apologise to me privately afterwards. It wasn't his fault.

I'm sorry - this is deeply over-sharing and I apologise for that. My (rambling) point is that here was a setting with responsible, qualified professionals, geared towards finding a place of understanding and progression - and still it ended in M's complete inability to accept any other viewpoint than her own, even in the face of hard evidence that her opinions were based on a skewed interpretation of facts and events, ranting and storming to the point where she had to be firmly told by her own counsellor to stop it. There was - literally - nothing that I or anyone could say or do to change this. That, in a rather roundabout sense, brought its own sense of peace and acceptance.

What I took from this has become something of a mantra for me now - I cannot change how she views me, what she says or what she does. What I CAN change is how I react to it.

So I do that. I work on what I can change, which is how much I allow myself to be affected by it.

I appreciate that this is much, much easier said than done, however, and it's taken many years to get even to this point. It is still deeply hurtful. But I do my best to let it go. If you don't let it get to you (as hard as that is), she's just an angry old lady shouting into the storm with her words being carried away on the wind.

Very sadly, you are right. You can't fix the problem, or even help it. But that doesn't mean that you are forever at its mercy. You can find a new way forward and be strong, despite (not because of) your parenting.

Sending strength and love. x

I'm so sorry for everything everyone has been through but I am just going to repeat what people have said about this thread being really validating and amazingly helpful. So thank you for the thread and thank you to everyone who has written in it.

I haven't spoken to my mother for almost 13 years and I've been avoiding this thread because I worried it might be triggering (because my mother damaged me a great deal). I have realised that I have been scared to talk about my experience because I learned from a very young age that every vulnerability or flaw I had was open to extreme criticism. My mother sure likes to pick at scabs. This thread has brought back memories for me, but they haven't been triggering and have just reminded me of how far I have come.

I have been through so many stages since going NC. At the beginning my mental health was dreadful and life seemed very bleak, but gradually I have worked though the absolute rage and the self-pity and the sadness (round and round and round it went) and now I feel peaceful. The self-pity sounds like a negative thing but I really did feel it, and it was part of the process for me. I hope it doesn't offend anyone. I never thought that anger would leave. It seemed relentless and made me worry I would turn out like her. But, that was never going to happen.

She can't hurt me anymore, even if she read these words and guessed who I am she has no way to get to me. Because she means so little to me now. Which is a real shame because I really tried to love and understand her. I had counselling and that helped a lot, my counsellor never said my mum was a narcissist but was extremely validating that my experience was unforgivable, and she never judged me (which I worried about). I only learned the term covert narcissism after I went NC but it felt like I was reading about my mother. In every way. She is textbook.

The constant gaslighting was also difficult and I really think I took a long time to recover from decades of it. It made me feel very cloudy and confused. If you have ever had brain fog from menopause, that's how I felt around my mother. It is very similar to me! (I have that atm)

I still have to work on taking care of myself and realising I matter but I am able to work through that now. The damage she did was severe, and my self-care was non-existent for a long time because I didn't feel deserving of anything. It's getting a lot better though. I will never be able to put myself front and foremost, but I do consider my own needs and wants now. Which brings me joy.

Everyone who has been through something like this needs to be reminded to be kind to yourself every day. I hope you all have a good day, you deserve it. You really do.

Having it combined with a narc sister too is something else. I was scapegoat and she was golden child. She has a very aggressive, belligerent energy. The pair of them are so impossible together that I can't be around them. It's been a pattern, since literal toddlerhood, of ganging up, bullying, lying, and then blaming me for any upset/reaction.
It's coming up a lot since I started therapy, flashbacks of all the truly disgusting, nasty things DM said to me whilst I was growing up, to shame and belittle. Some of them were even dirty. I'm also so angry that it's led to accepting less than my worth in romantic relationships. Solidarity to all of you.

@01Name You have nothing to apologise for. Share away. That's your conditioning kicking in to make you think what you have to say isn't valuable.
It is.
Just hearing that other women are/have been going through this can be a huge relief that it's not them, that they aren't flawed or bad people.
Your voice in this has value and you have every right to say what you have to say.

@reesewithoutaspoon Thank you. xx 💐

It is very enlightening to know that codependancy is being re named SLDD.
Self love deficit disorder.
Framing through that lens made me take a different view.

Increasing self compassion and self love have been very important in my healing journey.

How do you all approach parenting after experiencing such awful behaviour?

Im struggling with the thought of turning into my narcissistic parents, there has been times where I’ve blown up and midway through I realise what I’m doing (I’m suddenly my mum) and apologise profusely and explain how it’s never ok for mummy to be like that and there’s no excuses and that I’ll try my best not to do that again, but I sometimes have a short temper because of my PND and having 3 very young children makes it hard, but also very conscious about my parenting.

I remember being taken to a a large shopping mall begrudgingly by my mum (mum really hated spending time with me) on my 13th birthday to spend my birthday money, on our way we got stuck in traffic because of a suspected terrorist attack at said mall, and obviously it was all my fault and we could even get blown up because of me, I was devastated and my birthday was ruined.

My dad recently told me I should get weight loss surgery because he thinks I’m overweight and ‘was only trying to help”.

My dads house was in a large house fire and as I stood outside with him watching the firefighters run in and out (I was the only person there to hold his hand) he told me it was my fault because the lighter I bought and used to light his birthday cake that I made was next to his log burner and an ember spat out and that was what ignited the whole thing, I stood outside that house in a stupid Xmas jumper after just spending a lovely morning visiting ‘Santa’ just 2 weeks after having a csection in the freezing cold and just said “I’m sorry” and gave him clothes, a place to stay and food and crowdfunded for him and his girlfriend that couldn’t give a crap about me 😔

Just a few rubbish tales that made me feel rubbish.

I always worry I'll turn into my mum but I have such love for my children I know I could never treat them badly . I have to get valadation a lot from dh and he says I'd never be like her

I feel I have had a good grounding from my mother on "how not to parent", so have tried to make sure I treat my kids with respect.

Having a temper under stress can be a symptom of CPTSD caused by a narc parent- so that may be worth exploring either alone or with a therapist.

My m is giving me the silent treatment for past month - I had been low/ no contact with her 8yrs ago due to recognising that she was evil towards me. There has been lots of incidents where I should have stopped contact but hadn’t and this was the first time I’d stuck to my principles.
My STBX H couldn’t understand why I had no relationship with her as his relationship with his m was good. So he encouraged me to start letting her into my life again.
I moved in to look after my mum for two months just before Covid hit as she had operation and couldn’t look after herself. I honestly thought it had improved our relationship but when my STBXH started being abusive towards me , my m sided with him pointing out how financially I would be worse off and should put up with it.
needless to say I didn’t put up and he left 2 months ago - my m hasn’t spoken to me since I went to court to get non- mol. She’s told my adult children that she doesn’t want to get involved.
my eldest son is her golden grandchild despite her throwing me out of home when I found out I was pregnant as I refused to have an abortion. He hardly has any relationship with me due to poison I know my mum has fed him.
mum finding it really hard having to heal from not only a abusive STBH but now going n/contact with m again !
sorry for rant just found this post and it’s resonates with me so much.

Narcissistic rage is quite frankly terrifying to observe as a child, and when you lose your temper, you can feel that you are emulating that same anger. But it is different, even though from your viewpoint it might look, or maybe even feel the same (who knows). I have had anger issues and I have struggled to parent my children when things so wrong. When you grow up in that type of environment you spend a lot of time trying to control things, you also blame yourself a lot because it feels safer to criticise yourself than the parent. If you are suffering from explosive anger, then you are not alone! But you do need support to work through it, because it is not good for you to keep this in you, and it can affect your relationships. Nobody needs that extra separation or complication in the relationships with those we love.

Thanks all for being so honest. I can’t cope under stress and usually have to walk out of the house. Husband helping me to work through it and that I ‘can cope’ but have seen myself waking around the house muttering ‘I can’t cope I can’t cope I can’t cope’ at times. Also once went into a bit of a catatonic state when my 8yr old starting being very badly behaved and I couldn’t solve it/deal with it. It’s terrifying TBH. Now being very very mindful of what I say and do when I’m at the end of my tether. I normally have to physically extract myself until I can get calmed down .

So we've flipped from rage last night to her sending internet shopping links today as if nothing has happened and when I've noted this I'm told I'm the one with the problem. It's truly crazy-making behaviour. I'm meant to just accept this, that I'm the mad bad one and she's allowed to behave as she pleases because I've provoked her with my very existence.

@Nicola101177 I absolutely identify with your description of how you feel - including the 'freeze' response. I also have to talk myself down and consciously hold myself back

I didn't talk to my mother for 6 months once after one of her rages, she phoned up out of the blue to let me know that Tesco had some nice jumpers in, Like we had only talked the previous day and nothing had happened.
I think her only comment was 'lets forget all that silliness'
Like it was a trivial event and not worth acknowledging. Its truly bizarre isn't it.

I didn’t speak to my parents for three years. They never asked me why or what was going on for me. Behaved as if it had never happened.

@reesewithoutaspoon @SilverLiningPlaybook that's exactly it. So weird. I also get the 'I'm not going back over all that silly behaviour' rubbish. She's a big fan of only looking forward unless it's her going over my long list of misdemeanours going back as far as birth. Literally.

Yup. I so know that one too.

It’s incredible how an NPD parent is able to compartmentalise their behaviour. I hate confrontation at the best of times, but if ever I have an disagreement with anyone - family, colleague, stranger - I feel wrung out and exhausted and overanalyse my responses and reactions for days wondering whether I could/should have handled things differently. The NPD seems to have no conscience about the smouldering wreckage their actions leave behind and seem to quickly move on to the next event that has caught their interest.

@Nicola101177 Your parenting points resonate strongly. I always have a fear of becoming my mother. My DH very soon learnt not to jokingly say I am like her as it used to crush me and reduce me to tears. When my children were younger and going through the occasionally challenging stages, I literally had to physically remove myself from direct conflict because I was genuinely frightened that I might lose control and behave like her as I never, ever wanted my children to experience the same parenting experiences I did. I did something similar to you on occasions in that I shut myself in another room and literally howled alone until I felt I was mentally strong/calm enough to return deal with the issue.

Did you spend your younger years literally avoiding upsetting people and apologising even if it wasn't your fault? Was there an overwhelming feeling of guilt for just existing because she constantly went on about how much you cost, how much she had given up for you, how much she did for you etc.
Took me years to realise I could say no to people and they wouldn't hate me or rage at me. I used to have major angst if I had to let anyone down or confront people

100% yes to this, even far into adulthood. I even took the blame for things others had done (including in some early work situations) to avoid the tension and inner knot-of-fear. Also repetitive and unhealthy over-analysing of comments and reactions like @JohnPrescottsPyjamas describes. These were major, major problems for me. CBT helped me quite a lot.

Another doctor (MH professional) with whom I had some helpful sessions noticed this sort of thing in particular - she said it was almost as if I had a broken umbrella over me - any positive comments or praise just bounced off but the negative remarks and criticism dripped through the holes and sank in.

I also used to run away and literally hide if I had done something good. I couldn't bear compliments or praise (still can't actually). I was always made to feel that it was insincere, I didn't deserve it. I was repeatedly told at home that I was "making a spectacle of myself", "showing off" or "an embarrassment". Anyone who said anything nice to me was only doing it because they felt sorry for me. I got a small presentation at a work thing earlier today in a room full of people and even then I put both hands in front of my face and tried to stand behind a bigger colleague.

Even now the guilt is crippling. It takes a lot not to still be the frightened little girl just trying to make things that you don't understand better and "safe". Definitely.

Sending love and strength to you all. x

Yes, yes, yes.

I’m going to apologise again too for jumping in once again, but this is yet another trait I see in myself.

I often used to get complimented on my calmness and patience in the workplace in dealing with tricky customers - but it wasn’t because I was clever, particularly good at it or had any special skills, it was because I learnt to become adept at trying to diffuse situations to avoid confrontations and to say the right things to appease. After dealing with the venom spat at me by my mother, most of the things that others threw at me were pretty mild in comparison. I certainly wasn’t patient either. I might have appeared it on the surface, but inside I was sometimes boiling with anger but I hid it well because it was a survival technique to avoid drawing attention by keeping quiet with my head down.

I also used to run away and literally hide if I had done something good. I couldn't bear compliments or praise (still can't actually). I was always made to feel that it was insincere, I didn't deserve it

any reward was also conditional on me maintaining “good behaviour”. I never got to enjoy praise or rewards because the next infraction would lead to that reward being taken away. Even if I got to keep it that toy or book would remind me that I didn’t deserve it because I couldn’t keep being “good”…

i never learned that you can’t be perfect all the time, and people make mistakes.