Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers (& support for their victims) Thread 2

[01Name]

Following on from this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4610023-to-ask-for-your-quotes-from-narcissistic-mothers?page=39&reply=120137262, started by @itsgoodtobehome as a tongue-in-cheek repository for anecdotes of appalling remarks/deeds from parents/siblings with rampant NPD. It morphed into a place where those of us suffering the effects of such behaviour could share experiences, solidarity, advice and support. I hope this thread can continue the good work of the original. Your voice will be heard; your opinion and thoughts matter. You are welcome and valued here.

Yes I'd love to know if your dad was in on that one. It seems like he was but then accidently let it slip! Over the years, my dad has occasionally hinted that he knows what mum is like. More to my sister though. He has said comments like 'you know what she's like' or called her a princess sarcastically. But then 99% of the time he enables absolutely everything she does. He has been just as abusive as my mum over the years, particularly with the silent treatment.

Do you have children of your own? I have 4. I've been determined to break the cycle ever since I had children by investing heavily in therapy.

It’s equal parts interesting and sad that they do know what our mothers are like, isn’t it? Like yours, my dad has had more conversations with my sister about our mum’s behaviour than with me, apart from ‘she doesn’t do emotions’ (she does, just her own). He also had one quite traumatic conversation with me where he drove up to mine on the first day of my PGCE and cried in the car about DM and her behaviour, and actually wondered why he’d had us. This was probably only a few weeks before the MS diagnosis episode.

I don’t have children yet, but DH and I would like them. It makes me nervous on a couple of counts - a) I don’t want to behave anything like DM, and b) I’m worried it’ll trigger another episode around my ILs seeing the DC more often etc. But we’ll cross that second bridge when we come to it. Re. the first one, I’m doing lots of work and reading around nurturing emotional intelligence and overcoming intergenerational trauma.

I bet you’re a brilliant mum @Nowanextraone. Thank you for sharing your experiences 🙏🏼

I’m also really interested in becoming an educational psychologist, on the back of a lot of the work and development I’ve had to do around DM, and learning about attachment, trauma etc., although I gather that a lot of what ed psychs do day-to-day is more about statutory case work and EHCPs. But it’s something to bear in mind. I’d really like to make a difference to DCs who’ve had or are having experiences like ours.

Sorry, we’re going to need a new thread soon if I carry on like this 😄😊

Hahaha yes we will need one very soon!

I can help you out there 😊 I am an occupational therapist but prior to that, I was a primary school teacher. During my PGCE I realised I really didn't enjoy teaching - not ideal, but I stuck it out for 10 years, had my children and then retrained as an OT by doing my masters. I absolutely love OT. As daughters of NPD mothers, we are skilled at problem solving and fixing things to keep our mothers happy. Ultimately that was our survival and attachment strategy to keep us safe when we were children. I channeled my need to fix by becoming an OT as it is right up my street but boundaried 😄
Educational psychology can be fab, but the happiest educational psychologists I know are the ones who work privately. I currently am in the NHS but plan to do private OT assessments in the future 😊

Fascinating posts and as so many of you say, strangely uplifting in the fact that we are still here fighting and now recognise what our parents - particularly mothers - were. It doesn’t make it right, but to realise that a) our mothers weren’t unique - I always thought no one would ever believe my experiences growing up and b) and that it can be a diagnosed condition. I just assumed my mother was just different from other mothers.

I know now it wasn’t us, but as children we assume the blame or even had it forced upon us. I was brought up either being love bombed or told that everything was my fault and if I was more XYZ, everyone else would be a lot happier. A dreadful burden and responsibility to put on any child.

Definitely recognise ‘the script’ these women all had. Mine also had the inevitable near death experience when she was giving birth to me, floating above the bed whilst the doctors ‘fought to save her’ except it was her father who appeared in a cloud and told her “it wasn’t time yet”

Lots of lying about illnesses for attention seeking, but wouldn’t go to the doctor. “Doctors were for weak people” She would often ring and tell me how she’d fainted and collapsed alone but it never happened when there was anyone around or in public.

Sadly, because she lied and embellished fact so often and I was so used to it, I missed the fact that she was slipping into dementia until it became so obvious. Ironically, mental illness was the one thing she feared most, almost as though it was catching and she had no time for anyone struggling with their own issues.

I would love an extension to this thread, the posters on here have been so amazing, so supportive, and totally " get it".

Almost every post I am nodding because my own experiences have been so so similar- almost as if we have all had the same mother.

@Nowanextraone thank you so much for sharing your experiences of OT - that’s brilliant that you can use your skills and experience in that way.

It would be great to keep our discussion and support going if we can. When the time comes for a new thread, I wondered about calling it something like ‘Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers 3 (and support for their survivors and cycle breakers)’

What do you think?

Yes, I would love to see another thread. This has been so helpful in not feeling so alone and like you're going mad at times.
They are so skillful and adept at presenting as the loving interested mother and love bombing new people that it's hard for anyone to believe how their behaviour towards us is different.
I think that was the hardest part, people would be saying "Oh your mum is lovely, she's so friendly and will do anything for you"
Yes, she will, because she is ingratiating herself with you. Just wait until you displease her, put in boundaries, or fail to supply her with the attention she craves.
I remember as a child she would have 'friends' who she would speak highly of and be very invested in and then suddenly they would disappear and if you mentioned their name it would be met with derision and made obvious that you were never to mention them again.
She has literally driven everyone away from her over the years and sits at home moaning about how she stares at 4 walls every day. But any suggestions about going to visit her siblings or going to social events etc are met with excuses about why she cant or wont. We have given up trying.

I can only remember going shopping with my DM twice in my life and those are the only outings she ever did with me. Both times (with 10 years apart) she told me I was bigger than I thought I was and probably bigger than her (I was a size 12, she was at least a size 20). The last time I was a mother and I told her she was wrong.

I went places with my DF and my DGPs. She claimed because it was too stressful for her. Because taking your DC to the dentist and then lunch is stressful. Or taking me to the park, or shopping, or anything was stressful. She never knew the meaning of stress. My DF, my DGPs and I would have a riot and be out all day. She wouldn't come for my interviews at university or to drop me off.

Then coming home to her with a face like a slapped arse or feeling unwell or something.

This happened when I went places with friends as well as I'd come home to her sulking.

I never got chance to unpick any of this with my DF and my DMs family (apart from my favourite uncle who has died) won't hear the slightest of criticisms.

This thread and you wonderful women! It feels like we are all friends!

Yes me. All came out with the first one, then double whammy with the second. I ended up with post natal anxiety. She made both arrivals of the babies about her and went into
competition with my MIL. Carried on making scenes on their birthdays. Eldest got to 9 and I’d had enough.
im afraid the only thing that helped was therapy with a clinical psychologist but it’s long wait you may well get priority if your in the perinatal period and it’s impacting your mental health. I was fast tracked as I was three months after birth I went to GP with the anxiety. Good luck

Mine only took me shopping or anywhere If she absolutely had to when I was getting married I suggested me and her did something together ( I was thinking shopping or lunch) her reply was No why would I want to do that , I went home and cried

Yes, please please let's keep this discussion going. Like someone said, it feels like we are friends! I'm so relieved to have found this today as I've really been feeling sad about it all the last week or so.

When I got married, mum did the inevitable thing saying that I had treated her badly, and then said my friends were treating her badly (they were not). She did such a sob story that my dad was in his usual horrible mood with him. He came to pick me up to take me to the church and he didn't even say a thing to me. He didn't tell me I looked beautiful or he was proud of me 😪 all he said was (in a cold voice) 'we need to go'.

I contemplated explaining to her why she should want to spend time with her only daughter but didn’t bother as I don’t think she would have understood

oh thats sadi bet your now husband thought you looked beautiful lovely to talk to you all love and hugs xxx

No one told me I looked beautiful on my wedding day! Except for my husband. Parents left the reception at 6pm. They all went out for the evening the night before my wedding and didn’t ask me to come either. I was left on my own ironing my wedding dress. Sister was a bridesmaid and she was horrible . Only thought about herself.

Mine “forgot” to come to my appointment at the dress shop. Friend was horrified

Mine complained loudly to anyone attending our wedding that she knew nothing about the plans as I hadn’t told her anything

Oh. There’s so much here that sounds familiar. Mine was quite sure my wedding was all about her. And she was very arm’s length when I was a child. It was a different time and schools placed a lot of expectations on mothers (not fathers), but whenever there was a message from school along the lines of “get your mother to make/do/show you whatever” she was always too busy.

💐 to all of you.

I went back through this thread yesterday and pulled out some of the links to podcasts to listen to. Sherrie Campbell is really interesting and has done quite a few guest appearances on podcasts as well as her own series. It’s really interesting that she talks about how NPs can sense when you’re drawing boundaries or grey-rocking and will likely push back against that - that was completely my experience, unfortunately.

The R4 Woman’s Hour series I’m not so sure about yet. The first part is about a woman who realised through therapy that she had a NM, the second is with the same woman and her sister, although I’ve not listened to that one yet. Another is an interview with a NM whose daughter sent her a book about toxic parents with passages highlighted.

I think it seems to be missing a neutral psychologist’s/psychotherapist’s perspective, maybe - I felt that the interviewer was slightly disbelieving of the adult daughter and the subsequent episodes seem (at first glance) to try to ‘balance’ her assertion that her mother was emotionally damaging to her in her childhood and into adulthood.

It reminded me a bit of a counsellor I went to (before I found my longer-term therapist), who said that they would take into account all sides of the story and maybe the issue was that I wasn’t meeting my mum’s expectations of me. I never went back, but I think about that counsellor a lot and wonder what other advice they’ve given to other clients. 😕

Some people really don’t understand that mothers can behave this way.

Thank you for posting this - and what I think that counsellor and possibly the presenter didn’t get or understand, was that the biggest ‘symptom’ of narcissistic behaviour is the inability to be reflective and either be unaware or unable to see anything from any viewpoint except their own. Most people who aren’t narcs have empathy and a conscience. Of course there are two sides to a situation but you aren’t dealing with ‘most people’

Until you’ve had first hand experience - or even worse - lived with someone with the disorder, I think it’s impossible to really appreciate the mind games that go on. You can’t actually reason with a narc because they are actually very inflexible and fixed in their thought processes. Their way is the only way and everyone else is at fault. So many examples posted on here show this is to be, without exception, the case. They never accept blame or think, ‘I might have been mistaken’ or ‘Maybe I didn’t handle that so well’ They will tell the most outrageous lies to cover their tracks or justify their actions.

Thinking about it - but not justifying it, young children are generally quite narcissistic and egocentric. It make sense when they are little because they’re more vulnerable, their needs are more specific and often more urgent and part of the survival instinct. As they get older, about 4 or 5, they start to realise the world doesn’t revolve around them and that their actions can impact others either positively or negatively. Adult narcs mental development almost seems to have stopped at this stage.

My NM was almost childlike and needy but with the dangerous addition of adult cunning. Like a toddler she would manipulate situations so it was all about her. She would either sulk and cause an atmosphere or cry and become a ‘victim’ The tears were very predictable and she was very skilled at being able to turn them on and off at will. She could throw the adult version of a tantrum and demanded undivided attention. She could make or break a whole day with her behaviour and had no conscience about ruining it for others. Any attention, either positive or negative was good as far as she was concerned and again, like a child, concocted fanciful stories to put herself in a favourable light or at the centre of a drama.

yes this is all so true no empathy no consionse allways someone else’s fault they think they are the higharacy better than anyone else never wrong and in this case never wants to grow up still wearing clothes that she had from a young age dressing like a teenager how bizarre xx

Interesting comment about arrested development JohnPrescottsPyjamas.

I have wondered about this too.

My NM thinks and behaves like a selfish 5 year old. The tantrums, the inability to self reflect, the emotional immaturity. She even puts on a "baby voice" when dealing with other people, asks the doctor " Have I been a good girl" or " Do I get a gold star doctor".
It makes me heave when I hear it.

I have been wondering why she is so stuck, out of curiosity, not to excuse but I'm curious about the origins.
I know that she was badly treated by her older ( by 12 years) sister and her own mother seemed unable or unwilling to protect her.
My grandmother grew up in care, her mother in turn was a refugee from Ireland in the 1860s. When my great grandmother arrived in the UK her husband became a violent drunk, and injured my great grandmother with a paraffin stove, causing severe burns. The violent drunk died shortly afterwards, leaving my great grandmother to care for 6 small children with no family support. At that point she put them all into care, including my grandmother.
It is interesting from the point of view of the Motherwound, of generational trauma and how families can be affected.
It takes someone to stand up and say "enough".
All the amazing women on thread looking to heal themselves and to break the cycle are so inspiring. It takes courage and fortitude to examine these dark wounds and bring patterns into the light for examination. That is such a huge step in the healing journey.

Yes the inability to reflect and kind of arrested development is familiar here too.

I’m so sure that my DM must be a product of her own upbringing, but on the surface she seems to have had a relatively normal childhood, although we don’t know a huge amount about it. So we don’t know the root of her behaviour. But I’m really interested in motherwound work and work around intergenerational trauma, and there’s a definite pattern of difficult mother/daughter relationships in our family, as she really doesn’t get on with her own mother. She would roll her eyes whenever my gran phoned, or our dad would suggest visiting our gran when we were in the area and our mother would say no, and so we’d drive past the end of the road and not see them.

I’m very conscious that I wouldn’t want my future children to see me in the same way and to suffer with the same things that I have. I’m also doing a course at the moment on non-violent communication (NVC), which is so interesting and will hopefully be helpful.

yes there was definitely bad upringing in this case even forgetting to feed properly can you believe it and leaving the kids to fend for themselves from an early age so no empathy for there children and it seems to have rubbed of onto my grandaughters mother but she is so spiteful in nature i cannot feel sorry for her for the way she treats everyone around her and so selfish only she matters how can you keep wanting to compete with your own daughter luckily my 12 year old granddaughter is very caring and loving just like her father xxx