Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers (& support for their victims) Thread 2

[01Name]

Following on from this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4610023-to-ask-for-your-quotes-from-narcissistic-mothers?page=39&reply=120137262, started by @itsgoodtobehome as a tongue-in-cheek repository for anecdotes of appalling remarks/deeds from parents/siblings with rampant NPD. It morphed into a place where those of us suffering the effects of such behaviour could share experiences, solidarity, advice and support. I hope this thread can continue the good work of the original. Your voice will be heard; your opinion and thoughts matter. You are welcome and valued here.

If I ever stood up to her she would cry and say, “I don’t know what I ever did to you to make you so cruel to me. You can be so hard sometimes.”

Now she’s dead, it does play over and over in mind whether I could have handled her better.

this is what nasissistic mothers do in order to make you feel guilt they turn everything around on you so as looks like your fought dont fall for it enjoy your life you deserve it i wish you all the best xx

im looking for a good therapist on this subject my grandaughter 12 is asking me for help im trying everything but she still wants to see her mum and doesnt want her mum to know she has spoken about it i can’t betray her trust as she won’t talk to me anymore

It was the same for me re.guilt and confusion about situations.
My mother made sure we were always fed, clothed and also always look immaculate. That was important to her. She spent all day at home but she never wanted to bring us to the park, neither she played with us or was interested in us one bit.
From very early age she talked only about herself. It was just her, her world and her dramas. One day she would be extremely happy so I would feel over the moon. Next day she wouldn't talk to me or was angry and I wouldn't have a clue why but I would feel very anxious and sad. I felt guilty all my life and I think she enjoyed it. She thrives on attention so that's all she does. Trying to get the attention, and never have any interest in anyone else.
I feel difficult even today not to feel guilty/ confused when anyone is angry or annoyed and I tend to apologise for everything.

I hate her. I really do.

JohnPrescottsPyjamas I am not sure any of us could have handled things better. Please don't beat yourself up.
We do the best we can, and as children we employ strategies to keep our caregiver - and ourselves safe. Unfortunately we often carry these behaviour patterns into adulthood, and they don't serve us well. We can end up being codependant, prone to anxiety, low self esteem, depression and emotional dysregulation.

I think we should congratulate our inner child for developing survival skills. They did their best, and we did our best.
Narcs can't be changed, at least I know my mother can't. They often completely lack any form of reflective thinking, self questioning. They are always right, so any notion that there could be better ways is an alien idea.

I asked my mother a few years ago if she ever thinks about how she thinks. I worded the idea in a few different ways, but she couldn't grasp the concept. She looked genuinely puzzled. In her world she was a child, then an adult, then that was it- fully formed.

Although many of us know of pain and shame, we know we can grow, and heal.

I have this week finished a second block of psychotherapy- that is 46 hourly sessions in the recent past.
Not surprisingly much of the work was focussed on the legacy my mother has left me- but the results have been truly life changing. I now understand the whole impact caused by my mother's narcissism.
My healing journey will continue, but I have changed my thinking patterns.
I feel much calmer, stronger, able to set and implement boundaries, and developed a safe space within that is rooted and grounded. I can deal with difficult emotions more easily and have set daily patterns and techniques to release anxiety and find peace. I have learned how to be self compassionate, I trust and value my judgement, prioritise my own needs far more. I still have times where I slip back into old ways of thinking, but know how to deal with them.

The therapy was painful, gruelling, involved a lot of homework both in observing and implementing new ways of living.

I tell you this to let you know healing is possible.
Our mothers may be stuck, but that is their choice, not our responsibility to change.
But we can change. Becoming aware of the damage you have been caused is a huge first step on a healing journey.

@speakout that sounds wonderful. I am very happy you have achieved so much through phycotherapy. It also gives me hope. x

@speakout that’s such a brilliant post, thank you for sharing. I can totally empathise with the inner child aspect - we develop coping strategies like withdrawing into our inner worlds, maladaptive daydreaming, etc, and others that can also persist into adulthood. And although they helped us cope when we were younger, then we find that they don’t serve us well in adulthood. Kudos to you for all of the work you’ve done in therapy - for me, that ability to reflect on our own and others’ behaviour is what sets us apart from our DMs, and ultimately it’s what means we’ll be OK in the end, even though it can be extremely challenging.

@reesewithoutaspoon you mentioned the medical crisis as a form of escalation, and that’s such a familiar tactic to me. My mum pulled that one when I’d moved away to be closer to DP and was trying to set some boundaries with her.

Looking back now, I can totally see it for the massive escalation tactic that it was presumably designed to be - I was resolute about putting those boundaries in for the first time, aged about 23 and trying to work it all out, and I suppose because nothing else was working for her, she responded by telling me she’d just been diagnosed with MS and so I felt compelled to drop everything and go to her.

Interestingly, my sister already knew that she had MS, because she’d accidentally seen a letter about it at mum’s house about four years prior to that. So the diagnosis was real, but the timeline was totally fictional and calculated by DM for maximum leverage.

Added to that is the big secrecy around the original/actual diagnosis. Secrets are big business in our family, which I think might be the case in a lot of families with NParents.

Solidarity to you all 💐

Thank you so much @speakout for that post. Absolutely nailed the experience of a Narc parent. Whatever they did, we always ended up bearing the guilt.

I also tried to ask my mother several why she did and said the things she did. Most of the times she absolutely denied her behaviour and told me I must have imagined it, but very occasionally there would be a slight glimmer and she would blame her upbringing.

She actually had a dreadful childhood. Her father brought another woman into the family and fathered two children with her under the same roof as my grandmother, who appeared to accept it. He was also an abusive alcoholic and my mother being the eldest, bore the brunt of his irrationality according to my uncle. However, my mother absolutely adored her father - it was almost like Stockholm Syndrome.

She always emphasised what a handsome charmer he was, how he placed great value in good manners, the fact he was so particular about his appearance he used to even polish the soles of his shoes and how much he clearly loved her! This, despite the fact I was told by other family members she was used as an unpaid maid for his lodgers from the age of 12 and beaten up if he considered she hadn’t done the house cleaning to his exacting standards, whilst her mother was entirely passive and never defended her. It was almost as though my mother was in denial herself about the emotional and physical abuse she also experienced and made up an idyllic childhood to cope, which she would tell everyone about.

Whilst I wanted to understand her and see that the past made her what she was, I just wish she could have broken that cycle of cruelty rather than perpetuating it unnecessarily for another generation.

girlswillbegirls thankyou- and I am glad it gives you hope. We should all feel that hope- there can be healing ahead- most of us have already done a huge amount already- we have recognised our experience, the impact of such parenting, researched what it all means- and we are talking here. All these steps are profound and valuable steps as we move towards healing.

Such an insightful post JohnPrescottsPyjamas- and I agree. Much of this narc behaviour and resulting CPTSD is generational. Like you I can see my mother was parented badly, her mother grew up in a children's home and was cold and distant. My gran's mother was born in Ireland and was a refugee from the great famine in the mid 1850s. All that pain - the motherwound has been passed like a hot potato down generations, no one managed to break the cycle. I can understand that access to these ideas was limited in past years, psychology wasn't popular, no internet, so whether these women lacked understanding, fortitude or insight isn't clear.
I am not big on blame or indeed forgiveness, and I can "excuse" my mother's behaviour to some extent, but a lot of her parenting was simply malicious. Physical violence, derogatory words, the pull downs and put downs, she never wasted a moment in telling me I was scruffy, dirty, too skinny, spoiled, she hit me most days- simply for being my own person.

It is such a gift to be able to discuss these issues here- with other women who totally get it X

Yes, mine cannot acknowledge her behaviour at all she has denied doing and saying things right after she did do or say them ! Told me she wasn’t getting in touch with us for the foreseeable future so I left her too it ( have had 40 years or regular silent treatments have stopped pandering to it now ) get the occasional text informing me about her (never asks about her grandchildren). When I reminded her of what she said and the fact she hadn’t spoken to her I was accused of sending her nasty messages (all I did was point out her behaviour )

I suppose it’s classic gaslighting, isn’t it?

Mine would look at me with a hurt look in her eyes and say that she would never say and do the things I’d accused her of. And she was so convincing, I seriously doubted my own sanity on occasions and had to ask DH or DCs if they remembered the episodes too.

She could be incredibly derogatory about men - say they were weak and easily manipulated, no doubt because of her experiences with her own father - but was incredibly grovelling to any male. She would simper, flirt and overdo the flattery to the point it was cringeworthy. “Oh you’re so strong, I don’t know what I would do without a big, handsome chap like you, I’m just a woman, I wouldn’t understand how that works.” That was sheer laziness though, really meaning I can’t be arsed to make any effort so I’ll play daft and helpless and a man will step in.

It's all so crazy making isn't it.

I was slapped on a daily basis by my mother right up to my teens.
When I had my own children I decided that hitting was something I would never do. The subject came up in conversation and my mother stated how anti- smacking she was. I reminded her that she smacked her own children regularly ( my sister remembers the smacking too- I have talked with her about it)

When I reminded my mother she became very upset and angry. How could I accuse her of such a thing. What a nasty person I am for making up lies. How could she have a daughter that invents such awful stories- I am a cruel daughter for saying such lies- that she is always kind and gentle.

She left the room crying.

So as a child I was not granted physical safety, and as an adult she does not even want to grant me my memories.

Total gaslighting.

Grey rock is such a powerful tool.
I don't engage in any conversation now that leaves any chink for her to twist things.
She was looking for a new hairdresser a few years ago- I suggested mine- she didn't like the haircut- my fault. She still talks of that time I "sent " her to get a bad haircut.
She is looking for a new dentist at the moment- I know not to suggest. I have a good dentist and several of my family members use the same surgery- but I know if I recommend then I am forever responsible for any problems that may occur. Dentist running late- my fault. Dentist too chatty/not chatty enough- my fault.
There are a few dentists in town ( my mother's dentist has retired), and she has asked me to recommend a dentist. I don't fall for it. I may say " where do your friends go" or " I'm not sure who is the best" or " I am sure you will make a good choice".
Stepping back saves my sanity!

I have read all the post on this subject and honestly feel so bad for every one of you i we will not let my granddaughter be ruined by her mothers self possessed ways we my son who is the main carer me her grandmother and her grandad are all pulling together to give my granddaughter all the love patience and understanding she needs and hopefully this will help her escape the control her mother tries to have over her we have got her to talk about what its like when she is with her mum and without putting her mother down in any way we are helping her to understand and how to deal with it all in short steps im sure she will be ok we have seen an improvement allready so im holding out hope i would like to send love ❤️ to all of you be happy and enjoy your life to the full xxx

@cccarol - having your support, her DGF and her DF will help enormously. I find it very difficult to reconcile that my DMs family did nothing when they knew what I was going through. Only my favourite uncle understood and tried to help. My DF even asked for their help and he was refused. Even now they don't get how I do not want to be compared to her in any way.

oh im so sorry you didn’t get the help you needed i wish you all the happiness in the world 💞💞💞

Hi everyone,

It’s coming up to birthday season in our family (and Christmas will probably be here before we know it), and it’s got me thinking about DM’s attitude towards presents. Can anyone else identify with this?

Throughout our childhoods, DM was emotionally volatile, we weren’t allowed to express any ‘difficult’ emotions or she would either rage at us or give us the silent treatment. Sorry, I know I’ve repeated myself on this thread, but just wanted to add a bit of context.

Against that backdrop, at birthdays and Christmas we were given so many presents, really an obscene amount of stuff, and often huge, expensive things as well. DM would take photos of the piles of unopened presents, and these are printed out and kept among our childhood pictures - we’re not in the present photos, it’s just a load of wrapped presents in a pile on the floor.

Obviously we were very grateful, but as I got older, I got very uncomfortable with the amount of things we were given. At Christmas, I used to hide some of my opened presents away upstairs before family arrived because I was embarrassed, and I remember my cousin commenting, ‘K, you have so many presents!’, to which my mum said ‘yes and she has so many more upstairs!’

DM would also often comment that she ‘didn’t know what that was/what that did’ as we unwrapped the presents, which still strikes me as odd - she’d give us things without knowing what they were? Why?

It seems to me now that it was all part of her wanting to keep up appearances. Or maybe she didn’t have much materially as a child and wanted it to be different for us? But alongside her emotional neglect/even emotional abuse of us, it doesn’t sit comfortably. So much stuff but no actual mothering/parenting? It felt/feels empty, hollow.

If we ‘misbehaved’ (which we never did, we were very good children and terrified of her), toys and books would go in the bin, and my dad would secretly get them out and hide them in the garage for us. So whenever we got anything new, there was the underlying threat that it could be used against us whenever she felt like it.

Our house was small and crammed to the rafters with all these things. Before birthdays and Christmas, we had to have a huge clear out to make room for all the inevitable new things she would give us, which I think gave me a weird complex about keeping/owning stuff. It never felt permanent, and even sentimental items I still struggle to be attached to, if that makes sense?

Sorry for the ramble. I understand we were very very lucky to be given presents and that so many children don’t have that. But DM didn’t seem to do any of it through love or thoughtfulness or because she thought we’d like something. It was all about stuff and consumption and image, and even then it was used against us.

Can anyone relate?

Its image. My mum did something similar but not to that extreme because she didn't have the funds, but it was all about showing other people what a good mother she was because look how much she had got you, god help you if you weren't eternally grateful or didn't seem to like what she had got you. The rage would be off the scale. Presents would be binned, broken or given away
The presents were very rarely what you actually wanted or liked, for example I was a total tomboy who would have loved Meccano or Lego, instead I would get whatever that years doll was, or manicure kits and bath cubes. She was so uninterested in me, she wouldn't have actually known what to buy that I would actually like.

RenewableNewt I can relate to that.
Although we were very poor when I was growing up, so not a lot of money for lots of gifts.

My mother makes up for it now though.
We are all adults in the family ( youngest is 22) and amongst us we have agreed to give only a few items, for many reasons. Everyone gives really thoughtful gifts, truly amazing, usually inexpensive, but shows that we listen and care for each other.

Except my mother. She gives each of us around 60 gifts- usually two or three black bin bags full of presents - for each present. And like your mother RenewableNewt she piles up the gifts and takes photographs ( never people in the photo) no doubt to show friends what a kind heart she has.
I feel bad for criticising her but we don't enjoy this.
So we open to slipper socks, Bayliss and Harding gift sets- multiple of these, wall plaques that say things like " You don't have to be Crazy to Live Here but it Helps" which is in very bad taste - my older DS struggles with bad mental health problems, and I wince when I look at them. My OH will get things like an apron with a cartoon picture of a woman on it, A singing tie, more wall plaques for his office, ice cube trays shaped like food, a musical toilet roll holder.. the list goes on.
I watch my DD open her gifts, she puts on a smile and a " that's lovely- thank you" , but I can see in my DDs eyes she is very uncomfortable- she fakes her response. My mother can't see that of course- she is too busy feeling smug and playing lady bountiful.

It irks me that there is so much waste, all the wrapping paper, the mountains of tat- my mother thinks she is wonderful for being so "generous". Truth is I bundle it up and take it to a local charity shop- my DD gives me 90% of her gran's gifts to donate, she doesn't want to take the stuff back to her flat to make clutter.

I have spoken to my mother many times about the present situation, but she either laughs it off nd says " No such thing as too many presents" or becomes defensive " I am just being kind to the family"

Yes I understand that present giving is all about her and not you she is doing it to show the outside world she is a great mum and everything is ok ( fooling herself really). Mine didn’t but loads of presents but has never managed to once buy me something I actually like and always buys very young things like night shirts with cute pictures of teddies kittens penguins that sort of thing. Have no idea why have never liked them she only stopped when I moved in with my now husband at age 28. Every year I knew it was coming and was very pleased if it came from marksies and I could take it back , she said she knows how much I liked cutesy things, err No I hate them

Thank you all for your responses, I always appreciate your willingness to share your experiences 💐

We didn’t have a huge amount of money growing up, but presents seemed to be a priority - I suppose our parents must have had to save hard for them. But then they were somewhat used against us or used as an image thing.

We had holidays as well, two weeks at a UK holiday park every summer which I know is not cheap, but again some event would happen every holiday which would lead to a rage or silent treatment from DM. You could almost predict it - holidays, days out, something would always happen.

I can identify with the ‘cute’ things too - DM ‘sees’ us as children still, I think. I don’t go back for Christmas Day any more, and I don’t stay overnight, but when I last did at the age of about 25 or so, she got us big Christmas Eve boxes in addition to all of the presents on Christmas Day and then complained that ‘it’s not the same as when you were little’.

I feel so guilty that something like Christmas presents and birthday presents could bring up this many negative feelings in me. But also, how can presents be used against children like that? And why wasn’t DM capable of making something like that ‘nice’ for us? It made us so uncomfortable.

She always used to say ‘is there enough?’, as though we might kick off like spoilt brats if we didn’t have ‘enough’ presents - is that really what she thought of us? We weren’t like that at all. Even my dad said a few years ago (to me, not DM), ‘we don’t want all these presents, we just want to be loved’.

My MIL does the sack of presents thing. Every year she'd hand SC a sack brimming with wrapped tat, including packets of tissues wrapped up, socks, chocolate for the kids, novelty cheap toys etc, every year they filled up more and more space in the kids bedrooms untouched year after year. They'd just be piled in a drawer on top of last years pile.

Even worse is that this MIL constantly undermines DH's attempts to parent his kids and now that they're adults has successfully alienated DSS from him. FIL is her enabler.

DH asked her early doors after his divorce when they were small not to keep doing it as it diluted the gifts that he gave the kids (on a very modest budget) and gave them a heavy expectation that Christmas was all about piles of gifts that are never wanted or needed. She ignored him and carried on. He kept asking and she kept carrying on.

A few years after I arrived on the scene I referred to it within earshot as "granny's sack of shite" after she'd given me and DH a few (chuck all of the middle aisle in Aldi into a bin liner and you know what I'm referring to) and we never got one after that.

We still get ridiculously badly thought out gifts but at least we only take one thing to the charity shop not 40

Mine started on my children gives them lots of little parents pound lans stuff instead of one nice thing like a book or game they might like. And most goes in the bin or to charity and then my beautiful children ask why granny has bought them it. I tried suggesting things but my opinions are ignored ( as has always been the way)

My DM was never generous with presents or got me anything I wanted but what I did get she was at pains to tell me how much she sacrificed to do so. How good she was with money. No she wasn't and it wasn't her money. But then getting what you wanted meant you were spoilt according to her.

As an adult and for DS we would get a small amount of money with strict instructions about what to spend it on which I ignored.

Your DMs sound as if it was all about image.

My mother always gave me a cheque for Christmas or birthdays. Usually £25.
”So you can buy what you want dear” It wasn’t the value, it was the thought - and she just couldn’t be bothered. She always made the cheque out to me AND DH, “I don’t want him getting jealous or feeling he’s missing out” As if he ever did?! Then she’d insist we went out for a meal to celebrate my birthday - and we’d always end up paying, so she might as well have just put the £25 directly towards the meal anyway.

However, when it was her birthday, she always expected a grand gesture and I used to genuinely get so anxious trying to buy something she might like. So often she’d either not thank me whatsoever or say, “I’ll put that with the dozens of XYZ I’ve already got!” I tried to suggest several times that as we were adults, we just forgot about gifts (and all the stress they involved) but she wouldn’t have it.
”Birthdays are special and I like to have a present from you to open”
But still I got a cheque…

She would expect a phone call first thing on her birthday and if I didn’t, there would be a sulk and a call from my step father telling me how upset she was but all the call consisted of was her telling me how many cards received from so many other people and how they showed what a popular person she was.