Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers (& support for their victims) Thread 2

[01Name]

Following on from this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4610023-to-ask-for-your-quotes-from-narcissistic-mothers?page=39&reply=120137262, started by @itsgoodtobehome as a tongue-in-cheek repository for anecdotes of appalling remarks/deeds from parents/siblings with rampant NPD. It morphed into a place where those of us suffering the effects of such behaviour could share experiences, solidarity, advice and support. I hope this thread can continue the good work of the original. Your voice will be heard; your opinion and thoughts matter. You are welcome and valued here.

@WetLettuce2 that sounds really hard, that feeling of being beholden to your mum and doing everything on her terms. They all have that control thing in common, don’t they? I think they see us as extensions of themselves and they act out when anything reminds them that we’re not, we’re our own people.

Thank you re. the triangulation thing. It’s not been easy. A few years ago when I was the main target of DM’s behaviour, I thought it was going to be the end of my relationship with my DSis because she felt so caught in the middle - our dad was going to her for help and support when he should’ve been the one to protect us, and she was only 18 at the time, I was 22/23. Thankfully we’ve recovered from there, although it’s sad now that DM is focusing the difficult behaviour on my DSis, but at least because I’ve been there before, I can help her make sense of a lot of it, if she wants me to.

It still hurts both of us, I think, that our dad would do anything to placate our mum and didn’t stand up for us. He told DSis once that his mum did all the emotional stuff when he was growing up, so he left that to DM with us - except she wasn’t capable of it, and he knew that. So I feel that, if not throwing us under the bus, he kind of left us there. But equally that must be a result of his own upbringing, and he wasn’t able to connect to his emotions or help us with ours either. If that makes any sense at all!

I can so relate to the posts above. I totally get the revulsion. I feel it too.

That makes a lot of sense, @WaggledMyAerialAndWolfedMyCustardCreams. We’re really conditioned to see mothers in a certain way. I saw the thread in active this morning about an OP who didn’t tell her mum she was pregnant until she was 12 weeks, and so many posters were telling her how wrong that was and how of course her mum had every right to be upset. I think it’s really hard for people to understand that sometimes mums aren’t easy people to get on with, if they don’t have that experience themselves.

I understand but since covid my views on the world have changed and I can no longer tolerate mine I can only stay in a room with her for so long as she makes me feel sick. She has never noticed that we don’t actually have a relationship I think the fantasy world inside her head is probably quite different. My dad has enabled her she says awful things to me the worst was when I was a young child but if I say or do anything they object to it’s all How dare you upset your mother . If my husband treated our children like her I would have left him years ago

Yes, RenewableNewt, it’s the conditioning. The stereotype of mothers as kind, warm, supportive and so on is everywhere. It can take a long time to recognise that some don’t fit that stereotype and, crucially, this is who and what they are and it’s not because of anything the child has done.

I can really empathise with that too. I’ve found it’s since my lovely granny passed away (dad’s mum) that I’ve found DM’s behaviour even more intolerable. I think because our granny was so much more of a motherly figure to us, and the contrast is so stark.

Actually as our granny was passing away and drew her last breaths, DM lost it and ran out to get a nurse, even though we knew granny was dying and we were all gathered there to be with her, and my dad called after her not to. So the nurses ended up being in the room as well, although of course they were doing their job, but I had been holding Granny’s hand and the nurses ended up in between us and her. So my overwhelming memory is of DM’s behaviour affecting that moment, of it all being about her. I think she just found it too difficult to cope, but it altered the dynamic and made it panicked when we were all trying to be calm for Granny.

Sorry, @Shortbread49, I went off on one there 🤦🏻‍♀️ What I wanted to say was, I can see how a big event like covid has acted as a bit of a catalyst for us to say ‘no, this is intolerable’. 💐 to you (and all the posters here).

Yes, I think Covid has been a turning point for many people, for this and many other reasons. I relate too to the hijacking of significant events and occasions. I’m sorry it happened when your granny died, RenewableNewt.

Thank you @WaggledMyAerialAndWolfedMyCustardCreams.

I think it’s more painful because latterly I didn’t see my granny as often as I should have, because at the time, NM was being so difficult that I felt I couldn’t go to my hometown or see other family members without being forced into seeing NM, if that makes sense. So I lost that time with her, although it was ultimately my decision, but the decusion was due to NM’s awful behaviour. At the time, she was regularly crying and screaming at me about moving to DH’s hometown, and after one incident like that, she told me she wanted me to say I loved her, which I duly did, only for her to respond ‘I know you hate me’. So I wanted to protect myself from that, but in doing so, I missed out on time with my granny.

Then when Granny died, I remember my dad saying to me that I shouldn’t feel guilty for not seeing her more. But it felt kind of loaded and like a judgement. I don’t think he understood or understands that DM’s behaviour drives us away.

Thank you for listening, I really appreciate it. Sorry for the brain dump. I’m going to write all this down in my big brain dump Word document, I think!

Thank you for naming that feeling- revulsion. I feel that too.
I feel a huge relief when my mother leaves the room or the house.
TBH I have really struggled with how I feel about my mother- for decades I have really believed that the fault lies within me, society tells us everywhere that we should love, respect, look up to our mothers they are wise, loving, caring, and if we don't put our mothers on a pedestal then the problem lies with us.
I still struggle with that, even though I can remember a lot of unpleasantness, shaming, ridicule, the message of mother being wonderful still persists in our society. And it is also hard because my mother is very good at making other people believe she is a saint, kind, sweet.
It is quite isolating.
Thankfully the people I am closest to also see my mother for what she really is- my OH, and adult children, otherwise I would be doubting my sanity!

I used to think I had it tough because I was an only child, because her focus was totally on me, but reading these posts and how divisive a narc can be between siblings, I actually think mine would have been worse if she’d had other children to play off against each other. She tried it slightly with her friends daughters, “Look how attractive Lucy is.” “Lucy cares about her mother and visits her more than you visit me” which was a waste of her time because I knew Lucy probably had a healthy mother daughter partnership. The fact that she knew if she pushed me too far, she was on her own,I think reined her in to a small extent.

She was totally deluded about our relationship. Told everyone how we were like sisters, how lucky she was to have a daughter and how close we were. None of which was true in the slightest. She had a pattern of suddenly being really kind to me, I would relax my guard thinking we had turned a corner and taking on the guilt that maybe everything had not been good because I hadn’t been as patient with her as I could have been. And then, from nowhere, she would start again with the hurtful take down comments.

I emphasise completely with the loathing and feel almost guilty typing it. I remember so many times just looking at her and I could almost see the calculating thoughts passing across her face as she surveyed a happy family scene. Her mouth would set a certain way - I used to think it looked like a cat’s arse - and the comments would start. She would goad and prod until she got a reaction and had destroyed any positive atmosphere, even better if she caused an argument. It was like she couldn’t cope with anyone else’s happiness. She would then cry and make it all about her and how unpleasant we were all to her. I tried to reason with her on numerous occasions that everything had been fine until she had made inappropriate comments and she would even deny she had uttered them, despite 4 of us hearing them first hand.

Sounds like you had a tough upbringing JohnPrescottsPyjamas, and I think you are right if you had siblings then a narc mother would find ways to pit you against each other.
Our mother would tell me that I was the "lucky one" having dark curly hair and big brown eyes like my father, and tell my sister she got the short straw having red straight hair ( which I secretly envied) however my sister would take out her anger on me, doing really mean stuff- like forcing me to crawl between two windows on a small ledge on the first floor, steal my packed lunch, empty food on the floor,break things, tear books, then telling our mother that I had done these things.
As she was 6 years older she could construct scenarios, complete with " evidence" making sure her stories were water tight.
I had a bad relationship with my sister, she became engaged and left home at 14 years old to live with her fiance who was older.
I was 8 at the time, and really didn't understand the implications of that, and I didn't see our mother taking steps to bring her back or involve social services, I remember she did cry a lot, stopped cooking, and blamed me for "pushing" my sister out of the house because I was "so selfish". I absorbed that blame, but never quite sure what I had done to make her leave.
It is many decades since I have had any communication with my sister.
I think a narc parent can make childhood shit for any child- siblings or not.

Yes, I think there are different kinds of misery caused by narc parents but I don’t know whether they’re better or worse. I suspect they’re just different. I wonder what mine would have done if she’d never had her golden boys and how she would have coped if she’d only had daughters. Would she have come to terms with the situation or would she have been filled with even more rage? It’s unknowable.

The ‘cats arse’ 😂 I know what you mean. My mother’s eyes with flash with rage (my sister remembers this too) I was labelled as ‘the difficult one’, my sister ‘the caring one’ and that was basically that, set in stone. I couldn’t do anything right (except when I did something impressive like academic grades or a job then it would be look at my daughter) but sis could do no wrong. She’s almost succeeded in driving a wedge between on several occasions. I had to leave home at 14 to live with my dad. My my sister was distraught. My mothers reply ‘we’re much better off without her it’s just you and me now and we need to look after each other’. (Sis told me this years later) and that’s how it’s stayed. Low level triangulation regularly. Any dispute with me my sister would be dragged into it, to act as a go between, tell me how upset Mam is etc…I slowly and surely became ‘the problem’. A recent dispute where she caused a scene at my home I asked her to leave, it escalated as she refused. My sister then arrived and my mother wails to her “get your sister away from me!!!” (Bearing in mind this is in my house at my daughters birthday party yet she’s screaming to get me removed 😂😂it would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic. Needless to say I barely see her now.
I would often look out of the widow as my mother arrived at our home and she had ‘that face’ like a smacked arse and I’d think oh god here we go…..then she’d paint on a smile as soon as she saw my kids etc I could see straight through it all

Yes to the disapproving cats bum mouth! And also the typecasting (if that’s the right word). My sister and I were talking about that this morning - my sister said it feels like DM almost idolises her, which is a weird feeling for her. Like she’s constantly in awe of DSis. Although it doesn’t stop her massively overstepping boundaries and behaving like a nightmare, unfortunately. In comparison, I’ve always been the clown and the butt of every joke, which has done wonders for my self esteem, as you can imagine. I took up running several years ago and for ages, rather than saying ‘are you still running?’, both of my parents would say ‘have you given up with the running?’ Their opinion of me was that low. Pretty demoralising! I’m very lucky that DH is very patient and encouraging.

Also the eyes flashing with rage, @Nicola101177 - that’s a really vivid memory for me from childhood. I tried to do some EMDR with my counsellor around this, to desensitise the memory, but it was too upsetting and I didn’t manage to continue, unfortunately. Sometimes I wish I’d persisted, because lots of people seem to have really positive experiences with EMDR. Has anyone here used it for the sort of experiences and childhoods we’ve had?

I have no experience of EMDR- it does sound very interesting.
I do want to give hope to others that healing is possible, and it is never too late.
I had Gestalt therapy last year- a talking type of therapy/counselling, and the results have been life changing.
There are many routes to healing, but they do exist, I think one important step is to become aware of how our experiences shape our thinking and feeling. My therapy was a bit like peeling an onion, layers of realisation, lightbulb/aha moments. Once the awareness happens and we can observe the way we use maladaptations then the healing can start.
It is hard to remain unscathed by a narc parent, often left with anxiety, low self esteem, depression, fears etc, but these things can be overcome.

Yes to the raging eyes and cats bum face and favouring boys ( I was the only girl) mine used to be especially angry on Saturdays I would love to have known what she was angry about I suspect it wasn’t anything to do with me 🌸 to everyone

I also took up running makes me feel great mine can’t even bring herself to utter the word running I got “so are you still doing all this activity “!

I like to exercise and keep fit,
My mother tells me it is a "waste of time" because I " never wear tight clothes to show off my figure". Verging on creepy.

@speakout that’s definitely verging on creepy, I’m sorry.

Mine has made so many weird comments similar to that. Calling my DSis ‘sexy legs’ when she was a child, maybe 7-8? Also complaining she didn’t know what sort of underwear I liked to wear any more once I’d left for uni and she wasn’t doing my washing any more. Grim. I’ve posted before about the weird contradiction between her prudishness and her disturbing comments and lack of boundaries about this kind of stuff.

This is very interesting.

Did others find their narc parents wouldn’t/couldn’t bring themselves to use certain words?

My mother used to talk in almost riddles about things in an illogical way. She would would intentionally avoid using my BFs names when talking about them. She either used stupid nicknames she’d made up or refer to them by their initials. She would deliberately ‘forget’ my friends names too and refer to them in the negative ‘that girl who lives in the shabby house’ or ‘that person that was always a trouble maker’

She could never relate a story clearly, she had to metaphorically go all around the houses adding irrelevant details and needless fluff, but I think that was more about holding court and enjoying being the focus of attention.

The really weird one was always referring to herself in the Third Person and babifying her own name by adding an ‘ie’ at the end - as in making a name like Hannah into Hannie. ‘Hannie needs to go to the shops’ ‘Hannie doesn’t like people doing that’ Hannie wants a cup of tea’ Not sure if she thought it made herself sound sweet?! She would very rarely refer to herself as ‘I’ Wonder if there was some deep reasoning for it.

That is really interesting. Does it come back to the major lack of self esteem thing? The -ie nickname makes me think straight away of like a wounded child ego state, maybe? Maybe it’s the other side of the coin that makes them parentify their children/daughters? Just musing, I’ve no way of knowing for sure!

yes mine can’t use the word nice the closest she can get is fine. Also people names I can always tell when she has lost interest in someone and they have moved into the criticism category as they become he, she and they. I have her only grandchildren she can no longer refer to them by name they have become “the children” the criticism of them started when they were 5

Ha yes! Easily remembers names of people if she wants, or she thinks they are “our sort of people”.

if not, not a chance. That girl, that lad..

I remember I had a (male) uni friend who was a medic doing a PhD. Lovely bloke, called Oliver. She obviously got ideas and would ask how’s Oli, have you seen Oli recently, what’ve you and Oli been up to etc.

then she met him, and bless the lad is not blessed with the looks. Small, chubby, long hair, and clearly all her visions of an academic dr sil disappeared. From then on he was only “that lad” through cats bum mouth.