Quotes from Narcissistic Mothers (& support for their victims) Thread 2

[01Name]

Following on from this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4610023-to-ask-for-your-quotes-from-narcissistic-mothers?page=39&reply=120137262, started by @itsgoodtobehome as a tongue-in-cheek repository for anecdotes of appalling remarks/deeds from parents/siblings with rampant NPD. It morphed into a place where those of us suffering the effects of such behaviour could share experiences, solidarity, advice and support. I hope this thread can continue the good work of the original. Your voice will be heard; your opinion and thoughts matter. You are welcome and valued here.

Wow I identify with every single word of your post, except my sister and I have red hair (horreur!) while she had dark hair (now “blonde”).

Exactly the same bs about other women’s appearances -and you better bet everyone had their appearance commented on. It was so harmful to me as growing up I assumed everyone was as judgemental as she is and would squirm when imagining how critical everyone would be of my hair and pale skin.

A few of her set phrases:

”Lovely face” (said wistfully/ patronisingly)= fat

”She just misses being absolutely stunning” = I know this person is stunning and I am afraid they are more attractive than I am. However they have e.g. a bump on their nose so I’m going to fixate on that so as to feel better about myself

“God she’s a mess” = I’m indulging my superiority complex even though this person may have a lot more important things going on than grooming right now

I remember being pregnant with no4

she insisted on being there,even though I said I didn’t want her anywhere near me while in labour

anyway,long story short,she was there

I have very fast,easy labours-my fault as she ’really fucking suffered with you’ and ‘I gave birth to TWINS!’

i laboured and gave birth with minimum fuss-no drugs,minimum noise and only started to fuss (slightly) as I pushed him out

she’d spent my whole labour making sure the midwives looked after her-she had them running round making her snacks and drinks,making sure she was comfortable,endless magazines,an extra cushion etc-I was the afterthought

next day we where discharged and before we could go home,she had an appointment to have her feet done

i follow her in,holding my baby to which a waiting room of very old ladies start cooing over baby ds-oh she couldn’t have that!

she started loudly asking me if I ‘was ok?your sitting down slowly!haw haw!rather sore are we?haw haw!’ and she started mimicking me in labour-or how she wanted people to think I’d been in labour-she sounded like a bad porn star faking it for the man’s pleasure

everyone was just LOOKING at her but that didn’t stop her-she just had to make me look small

i still want to cry at the memory-how fucking dare she?

all because the attention wasn’t on her for a few hours

(I did get my revenge though-while I was busy pushing him out,I grabbed what I thought was her tee-shirt and I twisted in in my tight-fisted hand-it wasn’t her top-it was her nipple and I corkscrewed it off-I’m nc with her now but I’m told she’s still angry about it-18 years on,I honestly couldn’t give less of a fuck)

But why did you allow her in to be there at all? I don’t get it?

@wellpaddedintherear my mother also wanted to be with me during labour. I had to tell her a thousand times I didn't want to. Your memories sound awful, it is such an especial moment to have, sorry you ended up with her.

My mother is currently going through a phase of asking me to join us on a holiday this summer. Which I said every single time no.
I made the terrible mistake last year of spending a week on a holiday with her and my dad. I did feel guilty for my dad, (and still do), but the experience was so awful and even humiliating, there is no way I repeat that. But she keeps asking and asking. Every time I say no, we will go ourselves. But she keeps asking EVERY single week.

I've had no contact with my mother for two years.
She called me last week, and actually sort of apologised for some of the things she's done.
She then went on to tell me she remembers the time she hit me over the head with a hairbrush, (causing me to pass out) and smashed a plate of dinner over my head. Apparently these things happened because she was "going through the menopause" at the time!

I didnt
i didn’t want her there but it’s hard to explain,she said she’d be there,her mind was made up-what I wanted didn’t matter
i said I’d rather eat my own kidney than have her there,but she bullied and blackmailed me into it
endless ‘if I’m not there,I’ll make sure nobody has your other kids and you’ll be fucked’ and ‘I’m going to be there-or you’ll have to walk to the hospital-I won’t be giving you a lift’
its hard to explain,but I was much younger and less sure of myself-now she’d have no chance
narcs have this way of making you very unsure of your own decisions and they are masters of bullying

I’m so sorry you had this experience. Particularly when you were giving birth. Such a vulnerable and special time. I do get it. I’m sorry if I sounded critical, I didn’t mean it that way.

It is sad so many of I us have not had the mother experience we deserve.
I realised quite early in life that I wasn't going to have that shoulder to cry on, the help, support or validation.
Even during my own life traumas and events- surgery, divorce, giving birth, struggles with anxiety, bereavement my mother unfailingly took centre even when me and others were having a shit time.
I have learned to build good boundaries, so it is difficult for her to break into my well being and trample over my feekings.
It would have been amazing to have a mother who didn't bring me up with shame, punishment and gaslighting. I sometimes wonder how that must feel.
But I have reached a place where I don't allow her to do anymore damage to me, even if that means I have also closed the doors to any possibility of a good functional relationship.
We talk only of banal subjects, she does 98% of the talking anyway, so I remain neutral.
I also use humour to diffuse things within my wider family.
My mother ( who lives with us) goes out most days ( thank fuck) and will give a commentary on herself getting ready.
She will very often ask me if it is cold or warm ourside so she can choose which coat to wear.
I have come a cropper in the past on this one, saying it is mild today, or quite a cold wind, or whatever.
It is then very usual for her to come home saing"I am dying of hypothermia/heatstroke- you told me it was warm/cold today".
So if asked I will simply quote the temperature outside and let her make her own decision. OH and I laugh a little about this- she did ask him this weekend whether it was cold outside. I said to him " don't fall for it - it's a trap"so like me he has learned only to be factual.
I have suggested a hairdresser to her in the past, again same thing - the hairdresser has" ruined her hair - looked OK to me, and I have given bad advice.
Ditto with a facial I bought her at a local beauticians- her skin has been "damaged permanently" wishes I have never bought her the voucher. I suggested a place when her and her friend were looking at having a high tea, but her friend choked over a piece of food, and they both had food poisoning afterwards.
DD and I are both growing our nails using BIAB ( brilliant results), and my DD has suggested to her gran that she should maybe give it a go at the nail bar. I am staying tight lipped on that, because I know she will come back with an allergic reaction, or lung damage from the solvents.

So I don't suggest, even if she asks, because I know things will backfire, and she will use any outcome, perceived or real to berate me.

You’re an absolute saint for having your mother live with you. I honestly don’t know how you do it!

You are indeed a saint, speakout. I had the same realisation when I was very young that she was never going to be a source of help, comfort or validation - quite the opposite - and cannot imagine how I would cope with having her live with me. I admire your strength.

I question why I do it too.
She has no other family, and a fear of abandonment that would eclipse a 3 year old. A sheltered housing complex would be ideal, but even if I raise the subject she rushes to the "no-one wants me, I may as well be dead", runs upstairs abd sobs in her bed.
I had brought up the subject a year or two ago - as gently as I could, talking about benefits- she would heve her own kitchen, other people for company etc, but she flips. She then filled a carrier bag with a toothbrush and some clothes and I found her sitting outside in the pouring rain- she said she was "looking for a kind person who would take her in."
I think I need some tough love with her, but I don't have the headspace. I am also a carer for my 25 year old DS, so it is all such a burden.
I and I know it would not be without drama.
When she moved in with us a few years ago I helped pack up her things, she donated some things too, the things she wanted to keep we packed up securely in boxes and she has a lot of stuff in my loft and garage. She is a hoarder by nature- her own room only has a small path from door to bed as she keeps buying stuff from charity shops.

Very often now she will say-" I remember that tea pot/fondue set I had, I expect you probably threw it in the trash with all my other stuff"

I offer to get some of her boxes from the loft anytime, but usually get the " Ohno, you are far too busy a person to help your own mother- but I'll be gone soon, and out of your way".
Sorry for the rant and thanks to anyone reading that ramble. Today she was picked up at 9am by the elderly transport minibus, she will go shopping and have lunch.So some breathing space for a while

@speakout that's not a rant, you need to get it out and we are here to listen. Everything sounds so familiar to me.
I can't belive you are living with her either, I do agree you are a saint. But you do need to look after your mental health and consider packing her stuff so she can live away from you in sheltered housing. She will never be happy no matter what you do. You have enough on your plate and need to mind yourself. And your family needs you sane.

I realised my mother wasn't like other mums very young, but kept thinking maybe it was something I was doing wrong (as she always blamed me), so I kept trying to "read" her and apologised for everything and try to do anything to have that happy and nurturing mum. It wasn't until I have my own children I realised it wasn't going to happen, no matter what I did. I went through a giving process I think but its accepted now. I wouldn't have her under the same roof, that would be the end of my mental health.
I do really admire you speakout.

girlswillbegirls I appreciate your understanding and consideration of my situation.

Your story sounds so familiar- emotional scarcity with a narc parent- like you I was walking on eggshells as a child, never quite sure if an action of mine was a bad thing or a good thing.
We had a large garden as a child, and borders were stuffed with lilac bushes.
On my own one day at I decided to surprise my mother by picking blooms, and filling vases, jugs, empty milk bottles with lilac blossom to please her.
She came home and turned to fury, picking up the bottles, vases, flowers, throwing them on slabs outside smashing as they hit the ground. I remember the terror- she was screaming at me- "Don't you know lilac is unlucky to bring indoors- you will have caused death in the family for doing this!"
I hid myself under my bed for hours intil my cheeks were sore with tears.

I have always thought I can read other people easily- and I can, I can see through someones smile and see behind the mask, if they are sad, anxious etc.
I used to think it was a good skill, and it is, until working through things with a therapist I have come to see is has been born out of a desire to protect myself as a child, being able to sense moods means it may be in my best interests to find a quiet corner to read. I have pathological empathy! I was also parentified at a young age, from 8 year old or so, so in a way there has been a role reversal of mother and daughter.
As a child I was told to be kind, quiet, look up to men, don't ask questions, keep small, don't speak too much. don't kick up a fuss if a man touches you - just smile and laugh it off.
Having my mother live with me is not ideal, I am no saint, meekness is not something I admire in others, and see living with my mother as a weakness in my thinking.
I wouldn't want to live with either of my children when I am in my dotage, because it wouldn't be fair to them. I have told them when the time comes to choose a nice home and make sure I am supplied with plenty gin!
Like you girlswillbegirls, having my own children has been healing and transformative. It has given me a great insight into parent and child emotional dynamics, how a relationship based on trust, respect and love is so much better than one based of fear. And I delight in the relationships I have with my own ( young adult) children.

@speakout thanks very much for this.
I could have written every single word of it. The sad memories from childhood where anything you do is the wrong thing to do.
Your story of collecting lilacs as a child is really sad. You can't forget things like that.

I feel so identified with you. The pathological empathy, reading people as a survival strategy you grew up with.

But unlike you, I decided in my twenties to be as far away from home as possible. I did go travelling, with the idea of improving my English, thinking it would be maximum for a year....but I loved it so much all the freedom I experienced from day 1, I never returned home. That was 20 odd years ago.

I met my husband and had my children here never, and never ever crossed my mind to go back to my home country again. So when I read your story of having your mum with you at home, I really wonder how can you cope.
I can cope with phone calls and visits but that's it.
And sadly enough I do hate the visits, I sleep really badly when I'm there. All the scrutiny, all the negativity and all the bad memories...

I found that is easy to start a new life when abroad. Easy to leave all the bad memories behind. Until I have to visit or have her visiting. I really dread it.
I would keep reading your posts looking for tips to cope with actually being in the same place as your mum. Again, fair play to you.

Apologies for the long post!

girlswillbegirls I am not sure if any of my advice is helpful.
My older sister left home at 14, married at 16 and emigrated the same year I was 8 years oldwhen she left home I remember really bad arguments between my sister and our mother, but I was too young to really understand what was going on. I still don't know the details - my mother never wants to talk about it.
My sister leaving sent my mother into a downward spiral, possibly a breakdown or depression. I would come home from school and find her stuck in the same spot in her pyjamas, crying constantly. I would have to rummage for dinner, and make some for her too- usually a tin of something, beans or canned soup.
My father became terminally ill shortly afterwards, involving a number of trips to hospital in an ambulance, being in intensive care four or five times.
My mother was distressed about that too, and it was usually down to me to handle these situations, deal with doctors, make 999 calls. He was fragile over the course of his illness for a few years , but I was the one having to hold things together for a number of years- cooking, shopping, housework. I know things were not easy for my parents, and I became parentified quickly, but I was so young to bear that responsibility.
As much as I find my relationship withh my mother difficult, I have a deep seated to look after her- I feel obligated in a way, but seeing how hurt she was when my sister left I felt I couldn't leave and subject her to more pain.
Some years have passed, and she came to live with me,
What little positive aspects of our relationship have gone.
She has a hearing problem- age related, but refuses to wear it. When I make an attempt at talking with her she gets angry with me, saying I deliberately talk quietly to make her feel bad. But in fact no real conversations ever happen, she goes on the defensive - so it's a bit grey rock. Which suits me fine. She still talks to me at length, but I don't think she is really interested in anything I have to say anyway.
I have also researched local care for her, she needed a bit of a nudge to join, but now that she has joined her own social life has opened up.
She attends a day centre once a week, attends church, and makes full use of elderly transport services. As a result she has some activity 5 or 6 days a week, so I have space at home. If she has a
She also sleeps a lot ( she is in her late 80s) and often goes for a nap after a trip, and likes an early bed time too.
We bought a kindle for her, that took some learning for her, but she watches movies, can use youtube etc, again taking pressure off me.
I am also a carer for my adult son, it would be easy for me to be burned out, but I make sure my own needs are my first priority.
I have self care routines that make sure I am being kind and compassionate to myself, some at home, skin care routines, meditation, affirmations and I attend 5 or 6 yoga classes a week. I make sure I eat well, have strong boundaries and build rest periods into my day ( I also work full time from home)
My mother and I will never have a deep loving relationship, but I accepted that a long time ago. I care for her welfare- despite living with me she knows very little about my life, again that's fine, because I know if I share with her it gives her ammunition to use against me.
So having practical ways to disengage and have distance save my sanity.

I feel so so sad for you @speakout .You are certainly making the best of a very difficult situation, but it’s really not right that your life is so hampered by your mother. You really have no obligation to care for her with no reward or thanks. It’s tragic that she has had such a negative impact in your life.
I wonder how you feel about your sister? How does she view what happened and the price you were forced to pay as a result?

BeautifulDayintheneighbourhood I appreciate your concern- you are very kind.
It is many years since I spoke to my sister, although she sometimes phones my mother. My sister is very good at barking out things I should be doing with my mother, insisting that she takes certain food supplements, krill oil, chai seeds, making sure she is never left alone, do more outings with her.
Our mother joined a local church a few years ago, I am an atheist, but her church were very welcoming and she made a lot of new friends. They would also take her out for lunch, or afternoon tea, and there were lots of activities, visiting speakers, craft afternoons, concerts.
Suited me and OH fine, my mother was out at her activities, OH and I could have brunch on a Sunday morning, giving us a break, and the community my mother loves.
My sister is also a christian- a member of an ultra right wing conservative church- pro life, homophobic etc. When she heard our mother had joined another church she demanded that our mother leave that church because it is "satanic" ie, not the flavour of christianity she approved of.
So my mother left, and her social life was impacted. And I don't mind admitting I was very cross with my sister who lives very far away- and has visited back home twice in several decades. I don't think she should be dictating to me or our mother in this way.
But our mother has rejoined the church, all is good and she enjoys it.- but has to keep it secret from my sister, because she knows she will be pressured to leave again.
Yes having my mother here does impact my life, but I am very fortunate to have a lot of good things in my life. Adult children who are amazing and seek out my company, I live in a spacious home in a good area, a thriving little business which allows me to work at home with total flexibility and a very supportive OH who believes in me.
So overall life is good. I don't allow my mother's tantrums and toddler behaviour to impact on my well being- some days are bad, but usually I stay afloat fairly well.

Well that is just typical @speakout! Your sister left but thinks she is doing her bit by telling you what to do. Maybe she could have your DM to live with her for the rest of your DMs life seeing as how she knows better?

@speakout
Thanks very much for everything.
I am very sorry to hear how you had to parent your own mother from a very young age, that is not fair at all.
My own sister went no contact nearly 20 years ago with my parents because of my mother, and its like someone disappearing from the Earth. We don't know anything about her but we know she is alive because she contacts some relatives.
The reason she also went NC with me is because I still talk to my mother and ensure she is OK. So the opposite of your own sister who is interfering in what you do. My sister said to me she was cutting ties if still kept in contact with her.
I do dread every single minute of talking or seing my mother, specially when she visits and stay in our home for weeks. But I still feel she is my mother so I am only looking for coping strategies- the ones you mastered speakeout. Very good advice in your posts, thanks a million. xx

Hi all,

just bumping the thread to ask, those of you who are in contact with your NMs, how do you cope with knowing she will always be there, probably behaving rudely or unpleasantly, for every life event forever more? 🤪

My sister is having similar problems with our DM to ones I had with her years ago, and I’m trying to support her with this but finding it a bit ‘triggering’, if that’s the right word. In short(ish), DSis’ partner has to move away for work which she is understandably finding very difficult, and DM is messaging DSis multiple times a day, things like ‘I’m here for you’, ‘whatever you need, I can pay for it’, ‘I just want you to always be happy’.

That would all be lovely and supportive maybe from a mum we had a ‘normal’ relationship with, but past experience (and even how she actually behaves now, rather than what she says) has taught us that she isn’t there for us, she can only think about herself. DSis is finding it suffocating and is having to deal with managing DM’s feelings on top of the stress of her partner moving away.

DM seems to think she’s ‘owed’ our personal information or innermost thoughts and feelings. She’s accused me before of being cold and ‘normal daughters would…’, when really I’ve worked hard to put in place some boundaries and not rise to her manipulative behaviour. We grew up either getting the silent treatment from her if we did something ‘wrong’, or she’d shout and scream if she didn’t get her own way. Once she threw a full cup of tea across the room because she found out my cousin (a young child, at the time) was going to be at a family thing, and my mum didn’t like him. That’s just one example of a lifetime of dramatics, overreactions, etc. Our dad has always said she ‘doesn’t do emotions’ - well, she does, she just does her own, with no regard for anyone else’s, even when we were tiny.

Sorry, this is such a long post. I’m at a stage with my DH where we want to start TTC maybe later this year and I can’t bear the thought of her being near me when/if I’m pregnant, holding my baby, being there for all the birthdays etc. I just know she’d end up making my pregnancy about her and I’d do it wrong/not contact her enough/she’d want me to ‘share’ and to ‘support’ me, when all I want is to never have to be near her again.

I facetimed her with my DSis last night so it wasn’t so intense for DSis and honestly, every line is just more material. Comparing me (unfavourably) to her godson’s wife, talking over us both, not asking how we were but talking endlessly about her work and basically bragging about her dreadful behaviour towards her colleagues. She tells us via these constant messages that she’s there for us, but when we actually speak to her, she has to be prompted to say anything nice or supportive, like well done for passing your probation at work, for example. She only repeated ‘well done’ in a sort of dismissive way after my DSis said it.

Her behaviour, just seeing or being around her, sets off this reaction in me that just isn’t normal, it feels almost like revulsion. I’ve had years of counselling because I want to be emotionally secure and capable for my own potential DC and I know there’s more work I need to do, but how do I get over this feeling?

Sorry for such a huge post, thank you so much to anyone who gets through this!

Hi, RenewableNewt. I wrote a very long reply but lost it. Argh.

For me, the bottom line is that I’ve come to accept there isn’t going to be a fairy tale moment when she becomes a supportive person taking a kind interest in me. I feel the revulsion too. I doubt I’ll ever overcome it and I’m not sure I should; her behaviour is appalling and it’s not wrong to feel this way about it. You’re doing the right thing in working to be emotionally secure and capable. Counselling can be so valuable here.

Thank you so much @WaggledMyAerialAndWolfedMyCustardCreams, I really appreciate you taking the time to read that essay and reply. I’m sorry that you feel the revulsion as well. It feels so unnatural to feel that about your own mother. It’s so true though, having to sort of accept that she is how she is, and she isn’t going to change. DSis and I have been talking about how DM doesn’t really have any insight into her own behaviour or and self awareness or the capacity to reflect or feel empathy, so she actually doesn’t have the ability to recognise what she’s doing in order to change it, IYSWIM?

I find myself wondering why she’s like this, what happened to make her the way she is? Her own DM (my gran) is a qualified counsellor. I don’t understand how DM has turned out the way she has, but my own counsellor said that that part doesn’t really matter, it’s more how she behaves/has behaved and the impact it’s had on other that’s the important bit.

Thank you again for replying.

@RenewableNewt i can relate so much to what you’ve written. My NM constantly tells me what an amazing mother/wife/friend/grandmother she is and how supportive she’s been. Whenever I mention I’m a single parent she jumps in with ‘no you’re not you’ve had me! When she was actually really nasty to me throughout my pregnancy and the early years. She never did any childcare without lots of strings and paybacks attached. I arranged good daytime childcare early on from the moment I went back to work, but she insisted on certain pick ups so she could make demands on me in other ways (plus I’d be trapped at her house for an evening, I couldn’t ever just collect and run). It was all about control. She hated when I could start leaving DC alone in their early teens as she was loosing a hold over me. It was only then that I started meeting friends and going out socially again (she hated all my friends so wouldn’t babysit in the evening if I wanted to meet them). She still questions how long I’m out now when youngest is 18.

Im impressed you haven’t let her triangulate you and your DS, you are able to support each other. Keep with your healthy boundaries and tell her as little as possible xx

I find it helpful to reflect on the words I use. It might feel unnatural to feel this way about one’s mother, but that’s because of years of cultural conditioning about what kind of person a mother is. The word itself is unhelpful. It doesn’t feel so unnatural to feel this way about someone who has been emotionally abusive over so many years.