Two parents with “big” jobs - how do you juggle it?

[overgrowngrass]

We are going to be starting TTC soon and I’m freaking out a bit about how we’re going to make it work.

We each have a commute of over an hour, both not normally home much before 6.30-7pm, and leave for work at 7am in the mornings. We have little to no family support available, at least not regularly.

My work does have an on-site nursery but commute is long and motorway based which I wouldn’t be particularly happy about doing with a baby in the car. I don’t think I’m being OTT about this?

I do 4 days a week, but my day off changes week to week which means I still need to have childcare for 5 days. Partner doesn’t think he will get a 4 day week approved but will make the application if/when we have the baby. If so, that would be a big help.

How have other people managed kids when both parents have full on jobs with long hours?

I wouldn't worry too much. You'll find a rhythm that works for you. I am another one here that did shared parental leave. Then we did nanny for 2 days a week and nursery for 3 days while we were figuring things out. Opted to do nursery full time in the end. Our working hours were very similar to yours. What worked for us was finding a nursery on our commute route that still wasn't too far from home. We commute into the City but live on a train line that has fast trains for an additional cost. We did the fast train thing so it worked out that we could drop off just before 8 and pick up just around 5.45. Helps if one parent starts early and so is able to leave earlier so they can do the pick up. Our nursery was open until 6.30 which really helped.
I often felt guilty about leaving DC there for so long but they love it, get to spend time with their friends and honestly sometimes they don't want to come home. Even gaining just 20mins before and after work is so handy.

Thankfully since covid I have been able to pretty much work from home and just did drop offs and picks whenever.
DC has now started school and I find wrap around care for that much more challenging than nursery. Which goes to show how much flexibility nurseries offer. Nannies are great too, offer way more flexibility. They are more costly than nursery and I just liked the idea of DC socialising with other kids all day.

It’s the commute that’s the issue. The jobs don’t sound full-on at all. 0800 to 530 four days a week?

You can so do it. In fact the more senior you become the easier it is to do it well.

But you have to pay to outsource big elements of your life.

Nannies, cleaners, gardeners etc. if you both have a big job this is achievable whilst still having an excellent standard of living. Its the medium jobs where you wonder if its worth it - where you work like a dog and still can't afford school fees and holidays abroad and worry about the mortgage whilst paying someone else to being up your children.

But they are only small for a really small amount of time and where you fall on the "is it worth it" is really personal. I have somehow managed to have lots of children and maintain
a biggish job. Life right now would be loads easier if i had gone for the much bigger job though - as it is we need my salary for our lifestyle but can't afford to pay someone to do all the crud, which is not exactly having quality time with my family. I think i would have actually had more time with my kids, not less as the more senior you are the more in charge of your time you become.

Some really horrible people responding to this thread, they must feel pretty shitty about their own situations to be so bitter towards working mothers. You will make it work OP, there are plenty couples with good jobs who make it work for them. I work 13 hour shifts but I managed to reduce down to 30 hours a week after maternity leave and I am fortunate to have very good family support. Plenty of my colleagues don't have any family around but they manage with 2 full time jobs.

@poshmeOP you're suggesting that when you are wfh you can also do childcare.

She has not suggested that at all. It's quite easy to understand if you just read her posts before responding.

Don’t let anyone make you feel like you should apologize for having a career and children.

you just need to go into this knowing that child care is going to be expensive. Longer hours come at a premium. High quality care also comes at a premium.

You need to utilise a combination of things if you want to go for a nursery. Set days WFH so you can manage pick ups those days, compressed or contractually different hours, or accepting early finishes and an hour or twos work after bedtime. If one of you does 7-4, and one 9-6, for example, it’s very doable. All of these are totally reasonable things to ask an employer and shouldn’t impact on your work output. It has to be both of you though.

In the long run both of you commuting long distances in opposite directions is probably not sustainable, but you can think about how you manage that on mat leave. Long way to go still.

I think the key is to have really open and honest conversations with your other half from the start as unfortunately for most people it is automatically the woman that is deemed to be the childcare provider.
I was super lucky went back to work when child was 7 months 3 hour commute and regular travel and my SAHP partner did almost all child care except for some afternoons at nursery.
Looking back we don’t know quite how we did it as it was traumatic for both of us. Now we have a pretty good balance our 3 year old is at nursery attached to school 9-3 daily and my partner is now increasing his workload again.
Whatever way you do it, everyone will have to compromise just make sure you have the conversations early and come up with a joint plan.
Also don’t forget if you are still reasonably young ie less than 40 there will be plenty of time to accelerate your career when they are back in school, so if you want to don’t stress about taking a career break.

What about the other two days a week they will ‘fiddle about with’ or does parenting somehow not count 9-5 during the week?

This! An on-site nursery sounds perfect?

Be prepared to not want to be away from your baby for that amount of time.

And if you do, and so does your partner, be prepared that it's not really the best option for the child.

Do you definitely want children?

@rattleskittle again I repeat the question that I asked another poster who hasn't responded, would you ask that of a working class mum to be who needed to work those hours?

Yes I would ask the same thing. If you can't, or choose not to be near your child for the vast majority of the week from when they are very young, why have children other than because other people do it/biological urge? The child is a person too.

Gosh, there are some miserable so-and-sos on this thread.

OP, DH & I both have 1hr + commutes in London. I'm a CS so slightly more flexible than DH (private sector). We have made it work by:

1. Taking advantage of the post-pandemic change in working patterns so that one of us is always WFH but on different days. At the minute i am PT, but going back FT in a few months. So eg. DH does Mon, Thurs / i will do Tues, Weds, Fri. We swap about if eg. one of us has a client meeting or SLT meeting that we need to be in the office for. Also means we can get DD home for around 5.45pm so still time to play with her every day before into bath, story, bed etc.
2. Picked a nursery 5mins walk away and whoever is WFH does nursery pick up + drop off, leaving the other person free to sort out their commute. Picking a nearby nursery means i can do drop off at 8am and still be ready to start work for 8.30am.
3. We are in the process of sorting out a cleaner to help out to free up some time on the weekend
4. We don't fill up every weekend with visits / visitors, so that we have plenty of family time for just the three of us.

Our DD LOVES nursery, which makes it much easier dropping her off. She's been going since 10months and is thriving.

You will find something that works for your new family.

Yes I would ask the same thing. If you can't, or choose not to be near your child for the vast majority of the week from when they are very young, why have children other than because other people do it/biological urge? The child is a person too.

So what does that mean exactly, only families that can afford to reduce their income to enable more home care should be allowed kids? We all ship our kids off to school for the majority of the week from 5, why do we bother having them eh, we should all home school them?

I was raised by two full time working parents, I had a happy and healthy childhood but according to you I shouldn't exist?

But 0-5 are the most crucial years in terms of development so yeah, it's different to school.

Fwiw I strongly believe the government should invest in countrywide consistent subsidised childcare for everyone. That would give people more choice about what jobs they do.

But I do also think that young children, especially babies, benefit from being with a parent for more than just a couple of hours per day.

It's tough. My husband and I both worm full time. We use a nursery by my workplace (but my commute is short). I'd consider moving closer to work or getting a nanny if I were you.

This! An on-site nursery sounds perfect?

Yes I agree... OP, what is your issue with this? I would love my workplace to offer an on site nursery!!!

But that doesn't give you the right tell people they shouldn't have children, god the years I've seen these debates on here, my kid is in secondary school now and you can't tell the kids who went to childcare full time from the kids that don't. I've no doubt there is a lot of truth in the studies about kids at home etc, but I also believe it's a lot more nuanced than that, my kids got a lot more interaction in a nursery than they'd have gotten from me, because of the mum they got, the only way your dystopian view of forcing parents to stay home if they want kids would work is if you also made them do a personality test to work out whether they'd do a good job at home in the first place.

OP I would look for a nanny to do 48 hours a week and work 7-7 on the days you work. That’s a full time job so I reckon you stand a decent chance of finding someone happy to switch their day off to match yours each week.

To be honest I think I've hit a nerve with you because you're responding to things I didn't say.

I didn't say people who work shouldn't have children, I just think people should have a think to themselves about what it will mean to have a child before jumping into it.

I didn't say all parents should stay at home with their kids all week. I said the evidence suggests very young children benefit from having some more contact with a primary caregiver than would be possible if both parents worked full time and had long commutes. I actually don't think that's controversial at all.

And I don't think it's a bad idea to really think about the baby as a real person before you get pregnant, really consider your reasons for having a baby, and have to face the reality that you cannot, may not want to, and possibly should not try to continue your previous life in it entirety. I don't think any of this is controversial, genuinely,

Your second post sounds much more feasible and realistic than your first. I think people were fair to challenge you on your first one. As you say - if you can arrange that you both have one day off per week the impact of 3 long days is much less. Personally I would still look for a nanny with your working hours. I wouldn't try commuting long distance with a baby and nurseries are unlikely to cover the length of day you need if you include your commute. Good luck!

How is three days of work the vast majority of the week?

Nanny, as others have said.

Consider marriage if one of you will have to make disproportionately career-damaging compromises. I would make this a condition of TTC if DP is already making noises about not dropping his hours.

We juggle wfh days so one of us is there for pick up/drop off, and I dropped a day. (It is not uncommon for one of us to work evenings to catch up).

Do you definitely want children?

What gives you the right to ask this question?