What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

Honestly OP?
We’ve got a super king bed and our DC regularly crept in during the night with their duvets.
It probably goes against every word of parenting advice ever uttered but we always slept well.
Put it this way, they definitely don’t do it forever!

Op it sounds utterly horrendous, and sleep deprivation is a killer, I know. Ds slept amazingly. Dd did not. Sleep deprivation is a serious form of torture, dd nearly broke me. The following is my opinion, what I would do, and did do. If its not helpful for you, then I get that. Know that you have my immense empathy, its really really fucking hard.

As a couple of people have mentioned, nothing is going to work the first time you try it. Even gentle sleep training is going to take some time to be effective. So until you give it a solid, sustained shot you don't know if it's going to be effective or not. So I think you need to try again, with a couple of adjustments.

I would never leave a child to sleep in vomit, but what I would suggest is now you know this can happen, you prepare for it. Double or triple make the bed with layers of waterproof sheet and regular sheet, and have a couple of extra blankets on hand. Also have a couple of extra sets of pjs. If he is sick, a quick strip of the bed, change of clothes, and back to what you were doing before that point.

If you were comfortable with the technique you tried last night, stick with it. It's going to be overwhelmingly hard for a few days, but you do need to give it a few days before you can say whether it works or not. He's learning something new, and that will take time. If/when you crack this, the next thing to do will be to crack his reaction to dh, so that you can share the load, but I think it's better to get your ds to accept one change at a time.

Good luck op, I really hope it gets better for you.

Hi there first of all you have my sympathy it is very hard when you're not getting any sleep. All my kids, now 33, 17 and 13 slept in my bed from birth until about 18 months 2 years. I'm not a smoker, drinker or drug user so this was safe. If I felt very tired I would make sure baby was further away. I slept, not the same quality of sleep as before babies (!) because you remain alert to them waking , but I did get the all important rest. Also, night feeding was easy then as there was no getting up and out of bed.

first Of all you need to look after yourself in order to look after you soon. I am a mum of 6 so trust me I feel for you. I know it is frowned apon but I used controlled crying. I was always in control and it worked quickly and made for a better life for me and my DC. I first used this with my third DC. Who unlike the first two would wake constantly. No matter where he was sleeping. This was making me ill. I couldn’t function. And I had to for the sake of my DC. I became that tired that I couldn’t eat. I didn’t say anything and as I was a third time mum it was presumed all was well. My DC was never settled as he wasn’t getting enough sleep which is important for them too. I went to the GP with one of my other DC sand the GP asked was I Ok. I said yes just tired. He said are you sure. I literally cried and said my issues. He brought in the Health visitor to speak to me. She told me I had to sort it for my health and my DC. She explained controlled crying. I was reluctant but I agreed I had to try it. I was strict with it. No point in doing it half hearted. I prepared myself to be up all night for a couple of nights and I was. I was lucky my DH took three days off work to do the day shifts while I slept so I was ready in the evening to look after our DC. it took two nights That was all for my DC to stop waking. It Simply changed my life but most importantly my DC was so much happier. I couldn’t believe it worked and I know a lot don’t like it but it no way was I cruel to our DC. It was done for their sake as much as mine. My DC was not left screaming. It worked for us and I used it again when my other DC did the same. I felt I got all of our lives back. My DC was crying out of habbit. If you DC is well ( very important) it is worth a try.

beat wishes.

Co sleep. You either have a sleeper or don’t, all you can do is tinker round the edges. If you have an extreme non- sleeper fuck all you can do, don’t tire yourself out by trying this that or the other.

eventually they will sleep through

For what it's worth DD's sleep was much better when we took her out of the cot and into a toddler bed at 18 months. I bought a memory foam sausage to put on the side of the bed so she didn't roll out. She was happier as she could get in and out on her terms.
Sending 💐 🍷☕

Sleep deprivation is just the worst op no advice but hope you can get a rest in the day today

I did controlled crying, it worked the first night ( sorry) , but from talking to others you really,really need to be consistent. If you started last night, you need to carry on tonight because otherwise your LO will just learn that screaming will work for them. And then nothing will work for you. If you said no to them having a chocolate biscuit, would you give in? Think of it in those terms, you make the rules, so stick to it.

OP you poor thing. Posters advising things like cosleeping - which you've already said doesn't work for you - or asking is you could've taken any antenatal classes are not helping!

I think on your shoes I would get a stack of sleep suits ready and later up the cot so mattress -> mattress protector -> sheet -> protector -> sheet... then start sleep training using something like Ferber (cuddles, goodnight baby mummy loves you, in cot, leave... wait 5 min, back in, soothe but don't pick up, leave, 10 min etc...). If he is sick, then stay calm, get him changed without engaging, peel the sheet and protector off so you have another ready to go underneath, then try again. He will get it eventually.

I say this as a softy attachment parent who coslept until 14 months. All babies are different and you have to think of your health too.

ok My story feels applicable. DS1 was around 18m old when I found out I was pregnant with DS2. At that point it was taking my until 10 10:30 pm to get DS1 to bed. All very gentle loving and cuddly. But hell on me (and no time with DP) and I knew not sustainable when no. 2 arrived.

1. Move kid into a bed, he will be able to get out, that's ok.
2. Explain that now he's in his big boy bed it's time to learn to go to bed
3. Decide a bedtime routine, write it down, it can be as long and gentle as you like. Include whatever you like that works for you, bath, bedtime stories, the last food, the last drink, last nappy change. The important thing the same things in the same order.
4. At some point you give him his last kiss goodnight and say goodnight sweetheart I love you (or whatever similar wording). This is the last thing you will say, other than 1 phrase which you will repeat (100s if not 1000s of times over the next month, calmly and in a loving tone. e.g. "It's bedtime now, honey, time for you to be in your bed." (Don't make eye contact as you do this) but I always gave a little gentle stroke of his back as I picked him up.
5. you leave the room and close the door.
6. And wait outside the door. Do not attempt to hold the door shut or prevent him opening the door in any way.
7. He will shout and cry, you do nothing. When he opens the door (and he will)
8. You GENTLY, pick him up, and say your phrase, gently place him back into his bed and calmly leave the room, closing the door behind you.
9. Have a pen and pad of paper on the landing this is VERY IMPORTANT for your sanity. At this stage you make one (more) mark on a running tally of how many times this has happened so far tonight.

It will feel like forever, it will feel like he's never going to stop, but he will. Our first night I think we had almost 150 tally marks. But the second night whilst it felt just as long had only 80 odd.

IF something is wrong when you go in, fix the problem, calmly and silently, don't reward any bad behaviour i.e. remake bed, put mattress back on bed, pick up overturned chair. Say your phrase as you gently and calmly put him into bed and tuck him in. Leave the room.

Before you start this process you need to calmly 'screw your courage to the sticking place' as it were, to recognise the difference between your child's wants and your child's needs. Your child NEEDS to feel happy safe secure loved and looked after. He doesn't NEED you to be in arm's reach constantly to feel those things. Your child NEEDS you to be rested and ok not exhausted demoralised and grey. You have to KNOW that your child is safe and that his needs have met. You have to KNOW that him staying in his bed is not unreasonable or unsafe. Only once you know it with absolutely unshakable faith will know little one be able to know it too.

For us the number of times per night roughly halved each night however not everyone will be starting in the same place, the more quickly and consistently his needs are met generally throughout the day the quicker he will recognise and trust the change. Previous failed attempts at sleep training will make it slower and harder, but by no means are you guaranteed to fail.

Goodluck and lots of love.

*your little one sorry

You need a sleeping bag to limit the kicking. I know how dreadful cosleeping is, I never get any sleep if we do it and end up aching from being on the edge of the bed.

We had this for a few months around the age that your baby is, we are almost at two now and one day she just started sleeping through! Until then we got a single mattress and one of went and slept next to the crib holding her hand through the bar or on really bad nights co-slept in the spare room. It’s very occasional now!

Great advice!
The only thing I would change is getting a camera monitor so that you can go to bed and watch from there.
What I saw was my DC having a full on rage, stopping , then starting again.
Not sad, just very cross.
The settling well at bedtime and waking after 3 hours is a clue -that he is treating this like a nap and getting cross that its not time to get up.
Mine would come into bed and climb, kick, pull my hair and laugh.
So not distressed just thinking it was play time.
Straight back to bed, watch on monitor, firm settling. Repeat
Took 3 nights and then happy sleeping child, happy parents

Unfortunately there are no easy or perfect answers with a truly shit sleeper, I have 2.

I'll tell you what we do, it's not ideal and feel free to disregard it if you don't think it will help you but it means I get enough sleep and that was pretty much my only aim to be honest.

I have a super king size bed, I do bedtime in my bed, stories etc. we have a bed guard on both sides of the bed. Once DS is asleep I go down for dinner/tv/an hour or two with DH. I leave DS in my bed, I don't bother transferring him as he'll only end up back there anyway and if he wakes up in his cot he gets distressed and then is difficult to resettle.

We have a double bed in the spare room, DH sleeps there so he gets a full, decent night's sleep.

I go up about 10.30 before DS wakes, we co-sleep. You might find an adult sleeping bag with legs helps and provides a buffer, DS can wear the same (with socks to reduce the scratching).

If DS wakes fully he gets upset then is harder to resettle, if he stirs and I'm there he will go back to sleep. When he stirs I move to his side and cuddle and reassure him till he calms then I roll back to my side. That's now pretty instinctive and I don't really think about it.

If teething I do nurofen in the bath before bed. I listen to podcasts in the night if I'm awake for any length of time as it distracts me and means I don't focus so much on the fact that I'm awake.

As DH gets an undisturbed night he does all the early mornings, I catch up once DS is up and have reasonably long lie ins at the weekend. If one of us is struggling the other takes the kids out for an afternoon to give the other a nap/downtime.

It's not perfect, but he's my second rubbish sleeper and I gave up fighting it a long time ago, I just found the constantly trying to find a "solution" and failing made me feel shit, the process of trying was more exhausting and as none of it made a blind bit of difference anyway it was ultimately pointless (for us anyway).

Good luck OP, I hope you find a way forward that works for you.

@Pythonesque the ears are a nightmare. We’ve had to see a private consultant as GP wasn’t very helpful but to be honest even that hasn’t made much difference.

@toastfairy he won’t open the door, he isn’t tall enough. I honestly think some on this thread think I’m talking about a 2 year old, either that or mine is very delayed. He wouldn’t have a clue wtf I mean if I said you are a big boy now with a big boy bed.

dd was an awful sleeper. For a while only would fall asleep in our arms even as a toddler. The things we tried were a heavy sleeping bag and a pillow on top of her to feel secure. Also we put her cot up to her bed and held her in her cot until she was asleep and when she woke up during the night.

Have you thought about making the cot into a bed and putting a baby gate on his door?

I coslept till she was 2.5 but tried from 18 months to get her to nap in her bed. We currently read 2 stories and I put my fluffy oodie with her when I tuck her in so she feels like she's cuddling me. I only get like 6/7 hours of her in her own bed then ends up in mine but that's better than an hour and the constant kicking

My ed was a very poor sleeper and would throw up after crying for a short time. Everyone said just leave her, she'll sleep eventually. Hah! My dh once took her downstairs after trying to get her to sleep to see just how long she would stay awake for. She finally gave in about 5am!
One thing we wondered afterwards was if she might have benefited from a cranial osteopath. She was born with a ventouse and we thought maybe she was suffering from migraines.
In the meantime, I would breastfeed her to sleep and as carefully as I could, lie her down in her cot. I would then sit with her until I felt it was safe to leave the room. If she woke, I would stroke her back and just sit with her until she settled. This could take a hour or so. I tried the gradual moving away thing too. The lack of sleep really affected me.
One memorable night, I was feeding her to sleep, with a bottle, whilst in labour with my ds, when we had a power cut! My dh was trying to get some sleep as he had to be off driving at 5am.
I haven't read the whole thread, so I am sure someone else has given you some good, and current advice. My ed will be 25 next month.

To be fair op, at 18 months mine would have understood that. Has he had a hearing test? Mine had advanced language which is why the NHS wouldn't take concerns about their ears seriously. They were still in pain though.

I think all the sleep techniques in the world may not work unless you find a baseline where health conditions are not causing discomfort.

The other thing I would also check as you have said you are back at work, is whether he may be napping too much at a childminder or nursery or whether he is stimulated enough where he is. I have heard from friends that root causes of problems have been due to incompatible care - a disinterested nanny, finding out a childminder let's them sleep for three hours, etc.

My eldest was like this, 4 yrs of hell with brief interludes of calm.
Basically, we took the sides off the cot, and let her toddle into our room, where she slept with us. It's why we got a super king-sized bed.
No 2 daughter is and was the easiest baby ever.

I was talking to a friend about this and my DP and they've both said in their cultures the children sleep with their parents from birth.

Does his father help or is it all down to you?

You need a night off his father needs to do a night. Put him in a bed and get nice new duvet, led lights, clocks bunny wake up one, window open slightly. Weighted blanket etc routine - lavender bath, nice massage, story and cuddles and teddy and then audio book - one night on and one night off. One of you in spare room until you get your sleep back. His father needs to step up

Well, mine wouldn’t @RosesAndHellebores so maybe there are additional needs there. Who knows.

Hey OP, I’m sorry. Have read all your messages but not the whole thread. I see how much you need the sympathy from other mums right now. I really feel for you and if you were my friend, relative or wife I would be so worried for you.

whilst I didn’t live your experience one of my NCT friends had something similar. She told me that they have a special referral place that the health visitor can send you too which provides support with more complex problems and does lots of work on your health (physical and mental) to help you get through it. You might have something similar in your area. Appreciate your HV might be terrible but could you ring a general number and find out what they have? I found GPs and HVs very helpful with anything that threatened to spill over into mental health issues for mum.

I would give them another go and be prepared to be frank. I hate to think of you not having support in real life.

@toastfairy he won’t open the door, he isn’t tall enough. I honestly think some on this thread think I’m talking about a 2 year old, either that or mine is very delayed.

Bless you, I'm not confused by his age. But I absolutely accept that children vary of course. My eldest started walking at 9 months whereas some toddlers are at a very early stage of walking at 18m. I always found language comprehension far outstripped the words they could speak but you know your son best of course.

I think understanding what you mean/want when you say "time to go to bed now" comes from the same words accompanying the same actions repeatedly. I think what I was trying to suggest with the change of bed was that having a material change he can recognise such as mattress on the floor / cot bed in bed mode / single bed to accompany the change in your behaviour makes it easier for them to see and recognise that something has changed.

WRT the door, my eldest was in a full size single (with me lying next to him for blinking hours!) and had a little £3 step so he may well have been using that to open door (but door handles vary in height and type as well as babies varying in height.)

But his opening the door isn't the crucial point, the point is you make the rule(s) and stick to it/them.

Consistency is your friend, no eye contact, limited repetitious verbal interaction is your friend. Calm kind but blank tone of voice is your friend. Are you going to let him cry for 1m or 5m or 10m before you go in? It's up to you but be consistent. Say you decide 5 m, you go in he's by the door crying. You pick him up and carry back to where he should be settling down and you calmly tell him whatever phrase YOU decide just be consistent. It doesn't have to be words he already understands it's the consistency and the tone that matter.

Don't even start any of this until YOU feel ready to. But OMG you sound ready for a bloody break to me.