What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

Op take no notice of anyone telling you that you are inexperienced, that has absolutely nothing to do with this. My sister in law went through the exact same thing with my niece, and she was her 6th child, she had never experienced that with any of the others. All kids are different and sadly some are just crap at getting into a sleep cycle. My dd is 14 but we had awful issues with her when she was little, she would go to sleep easily but would wake a few hours later and I would have endless trouble with her. She didn’t sleep properly until the age of 4. The one thing which really helped though was to get her a proper bed. I actually got her a small double (which she still sleeps in), so that I could sleep in there with her if need be. I got these shaped foam bed bumpers to put all round the bed and she never fell out. I think she loved the space and even now sleeps right in the middle and spreads out her legs and arms.
I hope you find something to help soon.

Can you put him in a toddler/cot bed without the side on (obviously get a bed guard too). Then lie with him in there until he is asleep? If he wakes in the night then repeat?

I don't agree with co-sleeping but that's beside the point. I couldn't sleep with a small child tossing about. I think it might be worth moving his cot into your room even for a short time. Do usual routine bedtime story and so on even if it doesnt work. Its just a matter of getting through this. It won't last for ever

In connection with my earlier post. Yes I got slaughtered in MN. The NCT bunch were no better with their perfect babies which I subsequently found out since were far from perfect but they presented the perfect baby and family outlook.

My DH was just amazing. I fed him at 7 and after that he was bottle fed at night which DH did all of them. Whether DS picked up on mum not being there and didn't try and swing as hard with dad I don't know, but what I do know is it worked and suddenly we were getting sleep and in no time (ie following week, he slept through from 10-7 and then shortly after that went 7x7

We were so overwhelmed with getting sleep we just didn't dare break the routine for the utter fear of reverting back.

Suggest you try and see what works for you. It is a pain as it restricts you going out somewhat but once the sleeplessness is broken you get more flexibility.

So it seems that some forms of physical restriction causes him distress.

You put him down, he settles to sleep.
He wakes & cannot self-soothe back to sleep.
He’s in with you, but doesn’t settle, thrashes about & gets so distressed to the point of vomiting.
Understandably, you put a pillow between you for your comfort but this sets him off.

He’s not yet reached the stage of spreading himself from his environment, seeing others as separate etc.

The suggestion of getting out of the restrictions of a cot into a bed where he can move about in his sleep without coming up against the edges of the cot may help. It may be his natural sleep pattern with active movement & coming up against the restrictions of the cot that is waking him up & particularly at the ‘wrong’ part of the cycle for him which contributes to him not settling.

Likewise, co-sleeping in your bed means that he is restricted when he moves/thrashes about in his sleep & he’ll kick off.

Some people just need a lot of space to sleep.
Half of beds sold in the UK are King sized, people like plenty of space to sleep well.

‘Counter intuitive I know but I struggle to sleep without background noise (god bless documentary channels on sky) so we tried similar with her.’

I find the Archers Omnibus (BBC iPlayer) helpful as background noise to drop off quickly….

Oh you poor thing, that sounds absolutely horrendous.

I don't know if it's been suggested OP, but can you put a mattress on the floor in his room? You don't have to sleep on it.

Put him in a cot as usual, and then when he eventually wakes up, you can try settling him in a cot like you did last night for a little while. If he's having none of it, lay down with him on the mattress. Once he's asleep, quietly sneak out and go back into your bed. If he wakes up again after some time, you can lie down next to him again, sneak away once he's asleep. Rinse and repeat. He might wake up more times initially than when was in your bed, but this way he gets to stay in his room without getting hysterical, and you'll be able to sleep in your own bed and have the space. Hopefully over time the sleep in the cot or on the mattress gets longer.

Once you are both used to this routine, you can attempt sitting next to the mattress rather than lying down and do your gradual retreat from there.

Why do you repeatedly say you can’t leave him covered in vomit?? Nobody has ever or would ever suggest that, get him out of bed change him and the bed and put him back in it you’ve literally just taught him that to get your own way make a hysterical fuss until you’re sick 🙄🤦‍♀️He’s 2 now not a baby anymore if co sleeping isn’t working for you don’t do it, he isn’t going to spontaneously combust because he’s upset. Think logically, the worst that can happen is vomiting well he’s done that already now he’s no more vomit left so that’s the time to crack on and be determined.

As an addition re the vomit...

Asda do a waterproof sheet that is cotton. Order a couple online so the cot mattress doesn't get wet (or use puppy pads under his sheets) then if he is sick you can change and put him back to bed

Hang in there. Motherhood during sleep deprivation is wank.

I also had those awful women at baby groups who made me feel like I was the worst mum in the world because my dd didn't sleep.

Sending massive hugs xx

‘As soon as he was old enough to talk he told me me about baby jail. Basically he hated the sides on the cot. Not that he spent any significant time in the damn cot.’

@Sleepfailires is what I alluded to in my post.

He’s woken by his natural sleep restlessness in the restricted space of the cot, then he’s upset by the contained space/bars & cannot self-soothe back to sleep.

Also @JuneOsborne post about peelable layers to regulate temperature is helpful.

I hear you. My eldest son was exactly the same and I'm not quite sure how I got through it as a single parent at the time! 18 months seemed to be the peak for my incredible, non sleeping child.

Nurofen at bedtime for the teeth.
Sod the cot, I put a mattress on the floor and a gate in the doorway.
I got in his bed and ignored him completely bar laying him down again.

It wasn't perfect, and it took a little while. Eventually, we got to the point where the gate was on the stairs and he'd just climb in my bed in the night.

Some kids just don't sleep. Mine is nearly 30 now but I've not forgotten how brutal it was. He was also diagnosed with Aspergers a few years ago. There will be a point where you've realised that you've got through the worst, and this will happen. Hang in there, it changes and gets better.

Ok Im seeing this from a different view point.

He screams if you are there and wriggles, kicks and scratches if you co sleep.
Neither of these things are working so stop with those.
He doesnt sound sad, he sounds angry.
Hes had 3 hours of sleep and wants to get up, to play etc.
His fury is just that fury.
So let him express that.
But its night time and he needs sleep, ditch the guilt, he needs sleep and so do you.
Get a monitor with a camera and just observe.
You are there just not in the same room.
If he vomits go in and change but put him down again with a repeated phrase.
Then observe again.
He will work the anger out and settle.
Everyone will tell you that he will just realise no one is coming, blah, blah but those studies are from Romanian orphanages fgs!
He needs sleep and so do you.
Your anger and anxiety( understandable), his anger ( he wants to get up, play etc) are the issue here.
The clue is the fact that even if you are there hes cross and if you co sleep he doesnt settle well so its not that he wants you to go to sleep,he wants you to get up but its night time and its time to sleep.
Of course hes cross, let him be.
Far too many parents rush in at the first squeak and try to solve the issue when in fact anger is a valid emotion not one to be solved.

Good luck!

Yep this is also bringing back horrible memories. I co slept out of sheer desperation, I obviously still had shit quality sleep but it was better than nothing.

When mine was 2 he developed a medical condition that resulted in another 2 yrs of shit broken sleep.

Mine also could not handle controlled crying, I tried and it didn't work for similar reasons to you. Maybe I gave up too easily but I just couldn't deal with the screaming and utter distress. I was broken.

I don't know what to advise really, other than with the passing of time, things did change. It put me off ever having another though.

Morning OP, my child was like this. My advice is get a full size single for him and when he wakes up get in with him and get out when he's gone back to sleep
Staircase on the stairs in case he climbs out in the night and a "bed" next to your bed on the floor thar he can get into if he comes in to you.
You'll still be disturbed but hopefully it'll be less as he'll go back to sleep without getting worked up.
(The downside was i used to regularly wake up in the single bed with the toddler and no idea how I got there )

I always read these sorts of threads with relief that I now only have memories of this time with my eldest. She just about broke me with poor sleeping too.

I've skimmed part of the thread and then focussed on the OP's posts. One thing that has really struck me is that your son will sleep for a couple of hours before he gets distressed. I was reminded of my mother's descriptions of what she had to do with me, and then bingo I see you've mentioned ear infections.

I had very severe glue ear - to the extent of major speech delay and balance problems until I had my tonsils and adenoids out / grommets etc just before I was 4, and after that things were still up and down for several years every time I got a cold. My mother found I couldn't sleep lying down for more than an hour or two before I'd wake screaming with ear pain. So she got in a pattern of sitting up with me to sleep, then about 5 am or so switching off with my father. I think they may have done that for the best part of 4 years. Twenty years later she still had a pattern of two hours deep sleep at the end of the night. (ps they did manage to have my younger sister during all of that; humorous stories exist from when I was having speech therapy and my precocious younger sister was correcting / expanding on all the prompt material)

I think you say your son hasn't been seen by a GP. Your extent of sleeping problems seems reasonable to try to get an appointment, and I'd definitely ask for his ears to be looked at as part of it. Fingers crossed you can get some extra support that way, and that you can get an appointment some time soon. Involve your health visitor, accept a phone appointment initially if you need to, use their online enquiries - whatever mechanisms are available to you.

Very best wishes @Sleepfailires

My second was like this. She’d go down fine but would wake screaming a few hours later. Sleep training didn’t work, either gentle or otherwise. I genuinely felt I would go crazy from broken sleep. The GP prescribed sedatives for her when she was about 18 months which I had to increase by 1ml each night to a max of 5 ml. Even on full dose she still woke up!

I developed different coping strategies at different ages. We were just about to be sent to a clinic where they would wire her up to sleep monitors but a developmental shift occurs around the age of 5 to 6 in terms of sleep and that fixed it. She had occasional night terrors after that but not as frequent and now she’s not had any for years.

Take him into your bed with you and sleep together. Babies and young children are not designed to sleep alone. Some object to being left on their own stronger that others. Yours is obviously very distressed.

In a similar situation we used low bed, stairgate on bedroom door, beanbag on the floor, access to a toy basket with a few safe toys along with a drink and a couple of biscuits. It wasn't a magic fix but i did get more sleep. A two way monitor may help you feel more secure trying this.

Sleep training / controlled crying / whatever you call it works. As others have said, it takes about 3 days Please don’t think of it as cruel; they won’t remember. They will learn to self-soothe and that Mummy is happy to see them in the morning. You need to prioritise your own mental health.

My first child was a dream slept well and was amazing
Second one co-slept until nearly 3 but we've got there but there is no way on earth id be considering another one while I had all this drama going on, imagine the stress. I wouldn't have done it when my son was doing this and I think it would be the worst possible idea you'd be so stressed 😩 don't do it to yourself
It'll all sort out in time it does get better, you are not a failure but some children sleep and some don't unfortunately.
Sending virtual 🤗

Sounds very similar to my 15 month old, we’ve always co slept but I don’t get much sleep out of it, I’ve tried so many times to get her into her own cot but it’s just been a massive failure. A couple of weeks ago I decided to put her down awake and stay with her until she was asleep (she’d only had 1 nap all day and it was only 20 minutes naps are horrific also) she settled better than I expected as like you if I put her down asleep she’d wake up immediately and scream until back out, she still wakes somewhat frequently and only manages to stay in there until anywhere between 11-1 but those few hours of peace on a night do wonders. For it to work she has to be limited to only 1 nap at lunch time otherwise she just isn’t sleepy enough. We do a bath and a massage with some quiet lullabies on, feed then into a sleeping bag and into her cot with her white noise on, I’m rambling sorry I’m just hoping I’m saying something that you’ve not yet tried that might just be the magic trick. It’s so difficult and although our baby isn’t exactly sleeping amazingly it still sounds like it would be an improvement for you to be able to at least get to where we are of having a few hours of just needing to pop back in for a few moments to settle them back down, sleep deprivation is the absolute worst so you have my sympathies.

@Sleepfailires
As a mum of grown up daughters and now grandchildren I just wanted to show you some support. My eldest daughter was like this and would scream until she was sick, so in the early hours I’d be changing her bedding, bathing her and then rocking her to sleep until she was just over two. I even recorded me reading stories and played them to her hoping she’d think I was in the room. I used to sit by her cot with my arm through the bars and rest my hand on her back and then crawl out of the room sniper style so she couldn’t see me🤦‍♀️
I think I got to where you are now and decided enough was enough, my DH was useless as he thought his job was to earn the money and mine was the house and children!
Finally it took two weeks of hard work, every time she woke I would go back in and settle her but with out lights on and not talking. Then I’d sit by her door with a good book and would go in as soon as she disturbed because I couldn’t cope with yet another sick episode. It took a while but I found what worked for us, bottle, bed and story.
You will get there too, stay strong and PM me if you need to talk.
Another thing just popped into my head about my friends son, sounds very similar to your son and it turned out he needed grommets for glue ear.
You are definitely not a bad mum, if you were you’d just leave him screaming and covered in sick, you’re just having a tough time 💙

My youngest sounds like your baby OP. He sleeps like a helicopter blade and could not be separate from me at all. Needed to touch me 24/7. I had his cot with one side taken off shoved up against my bed until he was 2.5 then I moved it into a wee corner of my room for a year in the toddler bed. It wasn’t perfect but it meant I was getting some sleep. When he was 4 we decorated his room and he decided everything: colour, furniture etc and that really helped him make the move. He’d still come through in the middle of the night and I can guarantee by 5/6am he’s in my bed again. He’s almost 5 and accuses us of leaving him alone and making him lonely when we don’t sit watching him sleep all night (he genuinely believes that is what we did)

Co-sleeping wasn’t really something we decided on and he has the scratchy toenails and I’d wake up with feet in my mouth or being smothered when he full body planted on my face but I had to decide whether getting four hours of broken sleep a night was better than sitting up with a screaming puking child which uses up way more of my energy.

it’s about working out what you can live with and what you can’t. Not everyone has the perfect snuggly cosleeping experience or the child that self settles and sleeps 12+ hours a night but we all have to compromise something for us that may be sleep for a while. It doesn’t last forever.

Just remember you can get your revenge when your baby is a teenager. Live for those years.

Hi op. To answer your question ‘what do I do now?’ I would say, ‘do it again tonight’. Forgive me if I’ve misunderstood but last night was the first time you’ve tried the gentle sleep training? It would be a miracle if anything worked the first night!
So do it again. Be consistent. If he’s sick, clean him up and put him back (if the mattress is wet, flip it. Get a waterproof sheet etc). It might take a week, two weeks, but you need to break his old habit and instil a new one. I know how impossible this might seem when you’re exhausted so if there is any way you can catch up on sleep during the day, do it. You need to have had enough sleep to tackle the nights and not just give up because you’re so knackered. So do anything you can to make this happen. Call in favours from friends, family, take a few days off work…… just to fortify yourself enough to give it a proper go.

Being honest here, whatever I try is not going to work

You need to be persistent and try over a course of time. One night does not a failure make! Also, I suspect you being in the room is making things worse - he knows you're there and doesn't quite understand why you're not doing exactly what he wants.

Try leaving the room. I did gradual retreat - so night nights and shushes then left the room - came back after one minute, then two, then four, then eight etc. I was just outside the room but he couldn't see me. Even better - get your husband to take a week off work and make him do it. First night he cried until 11; by the third night he just laid down and went to sleep.

Obviously I can't guarantee it, but your baby is not broken. You do need to be strong though. Trying for one or two nights is not sufficient. Some kids are more stubborn than others.