What the fuck am I supposed to do now?

[Sleepfailires]

18 month DS, tried to implement gentle sleep training. The problem is he refuses to sleep in his cot. He goes down OK but then wakes 2 hours later and refuses to go back in it.

Tried ‘gentle’ sleep training, me in the room with him stroking him and reassuring him.

He went absolutely berserk when I put him back down, screaming, thrashing around, I mean really hysterical screaming. Then after twenty minutes (and I was right by the cot) he vomited.

I am an absolute wreck, I am fat, my skin is grey, I am exhausted, broken, depressed, my relationship is suffering as we get no time together, we can’t think of having another child, my work is suffering. I don’t know what to do.

Thanks so much. I will look into that as your DS does sound very similar to mine.

Thanks so much. I will look into that as your DS does sound very similar to mine.

Please take him to a cranial oesto who specialises in babies. It took me 4.5 years to get my son to sleep through the night and if there is one thing I recommend its this.

Not all sleep consultants do prescriptive approaches like gradual withdrawal - I've just used a great one for my 21 month old who also throws up if left to cry for more than a couple of minutes, can pass on the details if you're interested. People saying 'just do cry it out' drives me nuts, that doesn't work if your child is covered with vomit!

@Sleepfailires

My posts were helpful. You just didn't want to take the points on board. Which is fine.

No need to be insulting to people trying to help.

But I remember your other thread now & this was the way you approached it then too, as well as changing details as you went.

I'm sorry things haven't improved since that thread & hope they do in the future.

Sorry haven't read whole thread

I think sleep training would definitely be harder with an 18 month old so I think lots of advice may not work as most do it when they are younger. Unhelpful I know but it may be that you need more professional support, maybe from a book?

Does he nap in the day? If not, that's the first thing to work on. At least 2 hours lunchtime nap, in the cot as much as possible

He saw one as a newborn … can’t say it made any difference!

He used to nap for two hours but I reduced it to an hour and a half recently to try to help nights, which didn’t make any difference. Day sleep isn’t an issue though.

Get a double bed for his room, with memory foam topper if you can. He will sleep better and one of you can pop in, resettle then sneak out. We had two horrendous sleepers so you have my sympathy. Get it on credit from argos if you need to but huge comfy beds will literally prolong your life so it's a good investment.

Please google infant or primitive reflexes not going dormant to see if that relates to him. Did he have a difficult birth or was c section or prem? Did he crawl and walk early or walk late?

Just to say, it isn't 'you'. Every child is different. I've seen smug mums of Good Sleepers get a bit of a shock when the latest baby doesn't conform! Two of mine were sleepers, three weren't. One was in a single full-size bed at 18 months, another was still in a cot alongside our bed at three. They're all different.

You've had lots of suggestions about night-time. What are your daytimes like? I found, with my boys especially, they needed lots of physical outlets from a young age. Outdoor play, walks, anything to burn off energy really. Wasn't the ultimate answer, but it definitely helped.

The other factor to hang on to is, time. When they start to be able to communicate in words, then you can talk, explain, understand, so much better.

It really sounds like much of your child's reactions are anxiety. He goes to sleep, but then wakes up in a panic? You're his point of security. The more you try to prevent him getting close to you, then the circle escalates. Could you try doing the opposite for a week or two? Let him be close to you? See if the wriggles and kicks start to diminish as he begins to know you are there and he doesn't reason to be so anxious. Might be worth a go.

Oh love I really sympathise with you, lack of sleep is utterly brutal and normalising it isn’t healthy for you or baby either.

my DD is super strong willed (a little younger than your DS) but gentle sleep training didn’t work for us as she was utterly furious as to why I was there but not doing what she wanted and was used to! I used a sleep consultant and we went down the controlled crying route which honestly worked a dream. It’s tough and she cried obviously but after 2 nights she was much better. I know CC gets a bad rep but she was crying on me when we co slept and crying in her cot when we tried gentle training so I had nothing to lose.

she sleeps 11/11.5 hours now and has just started sleeping through. I would recommend a sleep coach as they really can work wonders if you find one you click with. Good luck!

I ask because my son was the same and needed touch to help with sleep. I used to pay babysitters to hold his hand while he got to sleep for some relief. And then I put a double bed in his room with a bed guard to stop him falling out and he slept one side and I slept the other for a year.

@30mph i think that is the problem but he just doesn’t seem to let up! I know babies and toddlers aren’t logical but he’d surely realise, she’ll come if I cry, so I can just sleep!

I have contacted a sleep consultant, it’s an awful lot of money though

I had one child like this. Ended up cosleeping until she was 5, probably not what you want to hear.
She is the most sociable and loving out of my 4 children. She just had terrible nightmares and teething issues and really needed that physical closeness. She also went to sleep without issues. She also was very touchy feely and kicking all night.
I think try the sleep consultant. If it doesn’t work then just cosleep and accept it. If you stay calm about it then you will at least get some sleep.
my DD even had bad teething issues age 5 when the molars started coming in.
my Dd was a c section baby and they wouldn’t give her to me for ages to hold and I think there was a clinginess trauma of some sort. She also had far worse separation anxiety than my others. But she settled beautifully at school and is very sociable and loving now- just had to ride it out!

Excellent advice

Just another thought - my DS's nursery teacher, at 3.5yrs, told me to take him to the doctor because "there's medication for him". She was suggesting he was hyperactive and that I should get him on Ritalin. This was 20 years ago when too many little boys were being prescribed it. The reason I knew he wasn't was because he was sleeping by then, even if it was only for a few hours at a time before he came to our bed, and he did hit all his milestones. He was just one of those really bloody hard kids. I suppose I'm saying, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with your boy, he's just being one of those really bloody hard kids. Mine's still a night owl.

Co-sleeping worked as the best option for us. I didn’t get great sleep, but I got sleep.
Then a toddler bed beside our bed…gradually moved the bed further away. Then their own bedroom.
After trying and failing at sleep training, and in my heart of hearts feeling that it was just winding my children up, co-sleeping felt like the natural choice as o couldn’t face the crying and vomiting.
Thus too shall pass OP.

Personally I'd be making a plan that does things in stages.

1. weighted blanket to see if that helps him settle, sleeping with you.
2. weighted blanket, sleeping with your husband.
3. in his own cot, work on self settling, husband on floor.
4. husband reducing input, present but it's not his job to get him to sleep.
5. move a bit further away.
6. popping in when needed, OK to stay, but again NOT his job to get him to sleep. Offer reassurance only.
7. ferber style interval checks.

Aim is reducing input all the time. Vomit gets calmly cleaned up but stick to the plan. See it as a programme that will take a month.

I feel for you so much. My third is extremely strong willed and sleep was a nightmare!!! Like your son she would not allow my husband to go to her ever at night and it could only be me.
A couple of things that helped a bit were layering up with pyjamas and fleece sleepsuit as she hated covers and using a pillow. Sometimes I used to try making her stir before her predicted wake up and then would pat her back off to sleep in her cot as although she came to she didn’t wake up. The final thing that helped was putting her in a bed and she just used to wake up and walk through half asleep and flop back to sleep. When in the cot she would fully wake up and scream the house down!!!
it puts a huge strain on your whole life, and although she is five and sleeps generally ok now I feel quite haunted by the lack of sleep even now!!!

does he have any signs of reflux? Congestion? Tummy aches? My daughter has a cows milk allergy and cutting that out helped and each time we try the milk ladder sleep is an issue again!

Yes it's money well spent though. Mine was less than £300.

OK @Bednobsbroomsticks it is excellent advice, it if worked. As it is, it’s made things ten times worse.

Do you really think I sound like a harsh no nonsense bed-is-for-sleeping-get-in-it type? I swallowed all of it. Your baby is communicating with you. He just wants you. I was super responsive, picked him up as soon as he cried, every need met, and now look at me. While my friends who sometimes let theirs scream a bit get a full nights sleep and their children don’t seem to love them any less. Funny, that.

I get it, I really do. Hope the sleep consultant is able to help xx

My child who was in a cot still at three, and transitioned to their own bedroom and bed (!) shortly after, was most definitely an anxious child. It was part of their personality. Nothing to do with poor parenting.

I reckon sometimes you just have to accept that this is how it is, and find whatever solution means you can function. This might mean thinking outside of 'perceived wisdoms' and whatever the latest ideal of child behaviour ought to be. By doing what works for your child, I reckon you'll find it works for you too.

i feel your pain. Literally with the kicking and toenail taking thing! 8yo DS has been a shit sleeper his entire life. None of the usual advice works on him - he is autistic with sensory seeking issues and I’m not suggesting yours is too OP, just putting that there before I get piled on with “well I wouldn’t let my child go on like that for 8 years” by clueless folk.

His piss poor sleep has evolved over the years into something more manageable. Until about 2.5yr old he would do the same as you son with the screaming, vomiting, and just rage if he wasn’t being held all the time. We’ve been under paediatrics since he was 3, and they put him on melatonin. This does not work in terms of him sleeping all night - first you have to get them to swallow the tablets whole (it’s slow release) which is a mission in itself. Even now he’s mastered that, he still only sleeps about 3 hours before he’s up and getting in our bed, where up until recently it was like sleeping with a rotisserie chicken!

at his last appointment with the paediatrician she basically admitted that we should keep doing whatever it took for us to get any sleep, because nothing really works. We do keep revisiting those methods every so often, he has a very rigid bedtime routine (which we also get criticism for, “why can’t he stay up late, it’s the holidays” etc, to which people get told to butt out of they can deal with the consequences next day!) All he wants when he wakes is me, so we’re now at the point of the only thing to help would be an actual clone of me. Or chloroform and a rag.

I don’t really have any helpful advice, just solidarity. For the toenails, we’d try sock on at bedtime (made him rage more), wearing joggers in bed to stop the worst of the scratching (great til I started having hot flushes!), and now we keep them super short and file regularly to get rid of sharp edges. We found that he was kicking and raking at my legs because he was anted his legs under mine (sensory input I guess), so we got a weighted pillow thing which does help a bit. He doesn’t take and thrash so much now.

I was just agreeing with another poster. Maybe you need to calm down. We have all been there. You aren't the only mother in the world not sleeping .

Just wanted to offer support @Sleepfailires. I had one like this, the first time they slept through the night they were 2yo. Nothing worked in terms of a full night's sleep, I just had to ride it out until they were old enough for the bubble bath and bedtime story routine to work. I am more concerned about your health, particularly mental and would say you need to speak to your GP or health visitor.