DS2 (7yo) punched a teacher in the face

[OnTheGoAlways]

I don't know what to do, and I wondered if someone had been through anything like this and come out the other side.

DS has had emotional/behavioural issues since about 3, he hit nursery staff even then. He has tourettes (we have been on the CAHMS waiting list for a very long time after badgering the GP for some help, he's been ticking for 4 years), and he has anxiety.

When he's at home, 90% of the time he is lovely, funny, well mannered, thoughtful, articulate. He bickers with DS1 (11) quite alot but DS1 is very starts things off after a day of being embarrassed by DS2 behaviour at school (DS1 in final year at primary and DS2 often runs at him and his friends). My life is just spent mediating.

I have been called into the school 3 times this week. Yesterday DS2 punched several teachers including one in the face. I am horrified and ashamed.I work FT and had to leave 2 important meetings to go to school. When I arrived yesterday DS2 was under a chair blanket fort, in a dark room, with the HT and a learning assistant. The school office had phoned and said I needed to get down right away as things were really bad. For the rest of the week DS2 is being taught alone in this room, and will have different break times.

How can I solve this and make things better? Where do I start? I WFH 1 day a week and he comes home for lunch then. Things are home are calm and predictable. I feel like I'm heading for a break down.

@OnTheGoAlways bless you sweetheart first of all none of this is your fault and the system is failing you.

I wish I had more hands on experience with children with ASD and could offer more words of wisdom.

But whatever you do don’t blame yourself and send your son to live with dad. But certainly ask him for more support? Is he a good dad

I ask that because mine was crap and I was a naughty kid because I craved attention I wasn’t getting at home.

All you can do is keep chasing the referrals and let the LEA deal with the problem in the meantime. You can only do your best and your are already going above and beyond what a great mother would do. Sending hugs

As other posters have said please don't blame yourself. It sounds like your son is responding with a fight or flight because he is terrified and at that point in time has no other option.

There is clearly enough evidence that he needs extra support. This should be enough to get an echp without any extra diagnoses. 7 year olds with no additional needs do not punch teachers in the face.

Your child and your family is "in crisis". You need to be 100% honest about your situation. I was not and it took over a year to get proper help as I was being very British and saying things like "we are finding things very hard and need some extra help" when really I was not coping, had mental health issues as a result and was almost at the point of leaving the family. I only got help when I said that we were in crisis and at imminent risk of family breakdown.

If the school senco hasn't already applied for an echp then you can ask them to write up what has happened in school and use this as evidence to request an ehcp yourself.

You mention social care? If your son has a disability (tourettes and anxiety) then you can ask to be given a carers assessment by the learning disabilities social work team. They are seperate from the rest of the social workers and only provide support for families with a disabled child. Tell them you are in crisis and need urgent help. The social work team will have an urgent referrals phone number. Ring that and say it is urgent because it is. They can help arrange some respite care for while you are working outside school hours but it can take a long time to arrange, like several months to a year. For example we have a nanny for after-school care because we were told we couldnt use ASC. The council pay a small amount per hour towards it to make the cost similar to ASC.

Not sure who would be best to contact at the council re ehcp and finding a new school but the old senco should be able to advise you. They still have a duty of care to help you find the right place for your son.

If you have done all that and still have any sort of brain energy left then I would get hold of a copy of ross Greene's the explosive child book. It gets recommended a lot on here but I found it very helpful when my kids were younger. The premise is that all kids are trying their best to "be good" and when they aren't it is because they don't have the tools to cope with the situation they are in.

Also at some point in the future it might be worth thinking about whether DLA would be worth applying for. Don't do it now. The paperwork is horrendous.

You are doing a good job in a ridiculously difficult situation. You clearly love your kids to bits. Look after yourself so that you can do your best for them and keep posting/ talking to people when you need help.

Hello and unmumsnetty hug. It's hard and I doubt there's a magic bullet that will make it better. But there are lots of positives. He is happy and charming at home - which suggests that school is hard for him, and that if school were less hard (I don't mean academically) it'd be possible for him to thrive. The catch is getting there.

Explosive Child was a gamechanger for us because it shifted the conversation from 'why are you being naughty' to 'It seems that (insert specific situation) was tough for you. Why do you think that was?' The first got us an angry, defensive child. The second got us a relieved kid who slowly, slowly started to come up with ideas for how he could do better.

Good luck.

OP is in Scotland, therefore can’t apply for an EHCP and if she isn’t already in receipt of it for DS she can’t apply for DLA either. She needs to apply for a CSP and child disability payment instead.

OP, children’s services can provide more support, so chase them up.

Has your DS got a diagnosis yet? He sounds so much like mine, who has ASD with demand avoidant profile. Has he spoken about what happened? Does he need to be confined to his room? You're his main (?only) advocate, so if you can muster the energy, treat this as an opportunity to spend some time with him, and really listen. Maybe take the dog for a walk together?

Thanks. Sorry I missed the bit about Scotland.

DS hasn't got a diagnosis yet, but is waiting for assessment. The word autism is now being thrown around freely by school and GPs though. I went to GPs several times about it from the age of 3 and was told there's no way he could have it as he makes eye contact.

I have just phoned SW and someone is going to call back soon, I don't even know what to say or ask? Do I just describe what's happening ?

I have also done the British thing of saying "oh but he's very clever and loving and it's not always bad". My best friend is a SW and says from now on I only describe the worst days.

Going to ask the school about CSP, I don't think he has one.

Be brutally honest. There’s a tendency to put a positive spin on things and minimise difficulties, but as hard as it is that doesn’t help you get the support you need.

Tell the parent who messaged you “please do. I’ve been begging for help for my DS for months”

Sadly it is often those that shout the loudest that get the help.

Ask the awkward questions of the school - why was Ds with a child they said they were keeping him apart from? How were they able to leave a room with multiple adults?

Its not the schools fault they have limited resources, but it’s not your fault either. And it’s not your DS’s fault.

You have to push as hard as you can so that everyone else also pushes as hard as they can to get the wheels turning in the direction you need them to go.

Wow this sounds so hard and you are clearly doing everything you possibly can.

I once worked in a school with a child with an attachment disorder, she was violent to other children, would ruin their work etc. The best thing that happened for her was that lots of parents complained - this was what enabled school to get her the specialist help she desperately needed. I agree with a PP, tell the parents in the group that you would appreciate it if they complain - and do so officially - as it will hopefully speed up your son getting the help that he really needs.

You cannot control how your son behaves in school, you're not even there. It's not your fault or his fault or the teachers fault - it's the shitty system that says all children are better off in mainstream schools (because it's cheaper) but don't properly fund them so the children are actually far worse off. Try to remember that the worse ds behaves, the more they exclude him (make sure these are official and not just you being asked to pick him up) and the more people complain the more likely he will get the help he needs.

Also don't do any minimising or putting a positive spin on things - SS will latch onto anything to avoid having to do anything and the minute you start saying good things they'll use that as an excuse to convince themselves that you're fine and he doesn't need help.

@OnTheGoAlways SS will try and avoid helping as they don’t have the funds and that’s why you have to shout loudest. Sad but true and keep on there backs

I agree with PP, brutal honesty, zero sugar coating, try to avoid talking about the good stuff and focus on what happens on the worst days. Tell them while he was supposed to be closely supervised hr managed to run around school and then punch his teacher. He needs that level of support and this will highlight the fact the school can't/won't provide that. Tell them how much this is effecting the whole family, the impact it has on his brother, on your mental and physical health, the impact it has on your ability to financially support your DC. Write down what happens on the worst days, it's easy to forget things in the moment. Write down what you need from this process, what you think he needs to not be overwhelmed by school. Good luck, I hope you and your DS get the help you both need.

We are not in Scotland so don’t know if it’s different but my dd has no diagnosis but I was able to apply for and be granted an EHCP. You don’t need to wait for any experts, you can apply.
I would also say different schools are very different in their ability and willingness to support children with additional needs. A school that excludes a child on this basis is not supporting him. There may be a local charity that would enable you to meet parents with similar issues who could let you know how other local school behave on this matter.

*Tell the parent who messaged you “please do. I’ve been begging for help for my DS for months”

Sadly it is often those that shout the loudest that get the help.

Ask the awkward questions of the school - why was Ds with a child they said they were keeping him apart from? How were they able to leave a room with multiple adults?

Its not the schools fault they have limited resources, but it’s not your fault either. And it’s not your DS’s fault.

You have to push as hard as you can so that everyone else also pushes as hard as they can to get the wheels turning in the direction you need them to go*

Absolutely.

OP I'm in Scotland (I know PP mean well, but can people please stop giving advice about EHCP/ DLA - it's totally irrelevant, we live in a different country with a completely different education system. And I mean COMPLETELY different.).

I'm a teacher (Secondary) and DS (age 10) has ASD/ ADHD/ Epilepsy- all of which hugely impact his learning. Things got WAY better for us once he was diagnosed. I know they say you don't need a diagnosis for support, but it helps a lot. Our consultant at Camhs (for adhd) was the one suggesting and pushing for us to get help (SW referral) and has been unfailingly supportive. Neurology at the hospital have also been fantastic (the ones who first suggested adhd and pushed for diagnosis). When you do get an appointment, use them.

In meetings with the school quote the policy 'All Behaviour is Communication'. Your little boy is using this challenging behaviour (it is not bad/ inappropriate etc, it is challenging) to communicayebthat his needs are not being met: he's unhappy and unsupported and likely confused and scared. Lashinv out can be his way of communicating a lack of control too (children with ASD very often need routine, consistency and a degree of control).

Also quote GIRFEC (you can Google it if you like- it's a v imp document about inclusion across education/ social work). It means Getting It Right For Every Child. Emphasise that as much as you appreciate their efforts they are not getting it right for your DS (or, for that matter, the other children). They need a plan for inclusion which doesn't include restraint and is cognisant of his needs. Mentioning this will put the wind up them.

Do the school have a sensory room? If not why not? The funding they receive for support need to be used for YOUR son. If they trundle out the old trope of 'stretched thin' ask why other pupils are more important than yours (hint: they're not). It's not the school's fault if they have scant resources- it's the council's. Ask to speak to the QIO (Quality insurance officer- basically in charge of multiple schools), they'll know you're serious then.

Please PM me if you need more info/ explanation/ a chat.

I have read and re-read all your replies, I really am grateful People Took the time to help. I have phoned CAHMS again, I asked for a children and families referral, a SW practitioner visited me today and is going to organise a multi agency meeting with the school, she seems lovely.

But, I don't want to do this anymore, I don't want to be his mum anymore. I have been disassociated for over a week, I'm going to lose the job I took with salary cut which means I have less than £5 in my account to last until Friday. It doesn't matter that I'm WFH, work less hours, removed DS from after school club (well, he was excluded), none if it matters because things are getting worse and worse. DS1 is suffering and gets no attention, resents DS2. I was meant to take them to the museum today but instead we argued and I spent all afternoon in bed.

I am ashamed, I don't want to see the other parents who complain about us, I can't make friends at the school. I am exhausted, resentful, angry and sad. I don't want to do this anymore, I can't. I am so alone. I was living on hope that things would improve, but they're not. I don't know why I'm writing this, I know its woah me again, I don't know where to put all these horrible feelings. I nearly got on my car and left them today. I am a shit Mother and i hate myself.

@OnTheGoAlways you are not anything like you describe yourself. You're just a woman pushed too far. Hang in there, but don't hold it together for school or social services. You need them to understand where you're at.

It will get better. Social work will help but it will take a while. Just focus on getting through one day at a time. You are not a crap mum. If anyone else was going through what you were they would be falling apart but you have reached out for help. Have a good cry because your life is way harder than you expected it would ever be but you are now at the bottom and the only way is up,you just have to hold on. (I was where you are about a year ago).

@OnTheGoAlways I’m so sorry to hear your having a hard time tonight but don’t beat yourself. You need to tell the SW how you feel as you need help and support and shouldn’t feel ashamed for asking for help. I hope you can continue to find the strength even if you have to dig really deep. We’re all here for you 🤗

You're not a shit mother. You've been dealing with a really tough situation for a long time with very little support. It's really good news that your situation is now being taken seriously. Be as open as you can about how you're feeling at the multi-agency meeting.

Also, you need to look after yourself. Your kids need you, but you can't be there for them if you're going under yourself. Don't feel ashamed, you're doing the best you can. You don't need judgy mums at school, you need others who have lived through similar situations. Are there any SEN parents' groups in your area? SW may be able to point you in the right direction. There might also be some respite care available for your DS so you can have some time out.

One day at a time is good advice, but also remember that it WILL get better, it really will.

Totally agree, and in my experience school will cover their arses!

My son was in the wrong environment, unsupported despite all the boxes checked on paper. School executing it was a different story. Long and short was he lashed out and hit a support worker, he was 9, diagnosed with autism, unsupported, school were being awkward and not communicating with me and the result was the support worker sending police to our home to have him charged with assault (even though he apparently can't be I had to take him to be charged!) The depute downplayed it to me, but she also reported him. It was awful! Fight for the support, unfortunately you'll need to fight!

Bloody hell! That's awful! OP - please don't add this to your worries!

You're right though, that some schools really don't know what to do with kids like ours, and will prioritize their perceived reputation over finding out. We ended up in a tribunal to get our DS's permanent exclusion overturned. School very grudgingly offered him his place back, and we were lucky to be in a position to say we didn't need it any more.

(Sorry, that was in response to @WhereIsMyGlasses )

It’s difficult to know for best but I’d be quite wary of doing this. It’s quite traumatic for a child to have a failed placement and have to move schools so I knew when I moved my son it had to be absolutely right. My son was similar to the op’s son. Eventually we got him into an asd unit but it took for year one when he first started having issues until year 4 when he moved to the unit. In the intervening time I seriously considered moving him to a smaller village school but now I’m so glad I didn’t. The main problem is they don’t stay at the small school forever, so you get kids that have thrived in a small village school moved to secondary, wheels fall off and have to start fighting for support then before you know if they are gcse years. With my son going to the unit in year 4 when it came to move to secondary it was much easier for us to get asd provision, the la didn’t try to force us to try mainstream first to see if it worked