I'm so viscious towards my children. I feel so much venom towards them.

[RedMist]

Name change regular.

I love my kids. They make me smile and proud.

Sometimes though, they drive me nuts. Actually, a lot of the time they drive me nuts. Like I have no time for them and they are nothing but an embuggarance. I wish they'd just leave me alone.

They mither for food and sweets a lot.

They prod, poke and provoke each other.

They trash every room, indeed even little corners I've just managed to organise or tidy. We live in a shit tip, no matter how long I spend clearing up & cleaning.

My son is 6.5 My daughter is 4.5.

I've started to lash out, really visciously. Tonight, I smacked my son across his face because he;d pushed his sister when he'd walked in the room. Then I started pushing him and saying "How do you like it eh? How do you like it when a bigger person pushes you around?"

Then I sent them to bed and refused to kiss my son good night. I was still shaking with anger at him for deliberately being a little shit.

My daughter pushes my buttons as well. She snaps and snarls and is deliberately rude, to gain attention. She whines and whines until my head feels like it's exploding.

I've read the parenting books. I know the right way to discipline. I just seem to have lost the ability to do it. I'm irrational and short-fused when ever the children are around.

What the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I like this?

I went to GP and he gave me fluxatine (sp?) - basically, prozac. It zonked me out so I stopped it.

Where do I turn to next. What shall I do?

I'm married and my DH helps with the children but he's quite untidy as well - simple DIY jobs for example, always end up with every tool and all the associated crap, just left lying around, waiting for me to clear them away. So that just adds to everything.

I need answers Mumsnet, or at least a place to start resolving this.

Any advice?

I thought the harping had stopped a while ago Blu...

bb99 revived it...but I'm sure that all we be back on track now, basically everyone is on RedMist' side, many people have found it helpful (I wish i had had access to this thread when i was depressed and yelling at DS when he was a toddler), and I apologise if my post stirs up bickering - thread too important for that

I'm certainly finding it incredibly helpful... I feel amazed that none of my friends (who are a good few years ahead of me in the child rearing stakes) never said how difficult it is/was when they were going through it. Now I'm finding it hard, they all look as though they are struggling to remember, and say "Oh, god, this stage was incredibly difficult, I remember being knackered and pissed off all the time".
MN a bit of a godsend at times....

OK, I'm going to post a suggestion here that other MNers made to me in a thread last week: have you thought about having a family meeting with your kids, to discuss the flashpoint and get their input on why they think things go wrong, and how you can solve them together?

We had never held one before in our lives as they sounded just unutterably cheesy and were a step too touchy-feely for my husband. But the end of last year was an appalling time for us and we really needed to clear the air. So, we had a nice Sunday lunch all together (um, or what would have been a nice Sunday lunch if DS2 had not had usual food issues and made himself sick twice rather than eat Yorkshire pudding...), put the baby down for her nap, then sat down all together at the table with pudding and made a list of what everyone wanted to talk about, including the kids.

I won't say it has solved things - although, for example, we agreed a bedtime routine, and a strategy for separating the boys when they fight (which they proposed!), these two things don't seem to be working yet. On the other hand, talking about them has really helped clear the air and we all feel like we're working together to improve things. And we're having another meeting next weekend to talk about how it's going and whether we need to make any changes to what we agreed.

NB this has not stopped me being Banshee Mum in the mornings yet....

I've not finished reading all of this thread yet but I wanted to say it's really struck a chord. Another MNer pointed me in this direction and I am so glad, I can identify with the rage feelings and it's great to know it's 'normal' on some levels.

My DS is only 6 months but he's been incredibly difficult and demanding, we're getting precious little sleep and I am finding my threshold for frustration and fury is really low. It's usually when I have a busy day with lots to do and DS needs a sleep and so I have to rock him but he just stays stiff on my shoulder, groaning with tiredness, for what seems like hours. He's heavy and I ache and I'm tired and I'm sick of this inability to sleep unaided and I'm so angry with him for not sleeping but I also cannot bear to leave him crying and I feel so maternal and protective. It's like Jekyll and Hyde are having a showdown in my head.

My life pre-baby was very controlled in some senses - my job was demanding but I was good at it. I'm hoping that will be a positive outcome from my return to work soon - feeling more like I'm not at the mercy of the gods.

I frighten myself with the anger though - I've never hit DS or anything but I have shouted at him and lifted him roughly. And it's so true, done once, easier done a second time. I'm really frightened this will balloon as he gets older and I desperately want to get myself under control and that means finding coping strategies now. This thread has given me some fantastic ideas and insights.

Thank you RedMist for being so brave.

Oh, please do not go to the supermarket! I agree with Orangina that we do tend to be have better in public, but when I go to the supermarket I enter hyperspace and therefore no one knows me and my head begins to implode! That is one of the reasons I stick to my lists and shop locally.

Have just come to this thread very late RedMist.

Just wanted you to know that it's still helping others 10 days on.

I know I will keep referring to all the fantastic advice and support on here for quite a long time to come.
Am keeping it on my watched list and making a list and have also ordered the unconditional parent book.

Thanks.

Hi Redmist, thank you for starting this thread - asking for help and the capacity to change/ not fall at the first hurdle are admirable qualities.
I had a honest chat with dh(woke him up at midnight!) about our parenting after i'd read this thread which cleared the air. We haven't raised our voices in 3 days and dh says the atmosphere is happier - at least there's only 3 shouting not 5!
I'm realistic enough to know that i will shout at some point, but at least it's not every day.
I've started doing an action rhymes cd with the kids every afternoon and that really cheers us up.I'm also imagining that film crew!

Hmmm...I seem to have some weird Kirsty Alsop/Tanya Byron hybrid watching my every move now...

Hello, everyone. I did not have time to say properly thank you to RM and to all who have posted support and ideas and their troubles,as well, here on this thread. I have been there many many times myself, and it never occurred to me how much I thought that it was only me who was the monster, and everyone else was incredibly perfect and always patient and angelic and mild-spoken with their dc. This thread has been a lot of help on many levels.

Dear IAteRosemaryConleyForBreakfast,
I remember being like you with ds1. I found The New Baby & Toddler Sleep Programme book a fantastic help. It took just three days for ds1 to learn to go back to sleep by himself - that was our issue. But I am sure you will find a solution that suits your family in there.
Also, I am not the first one to tell you, whatever you do, please do not shake the child. Please!
I found the age bet. 6 & 9 mos the best after the difficulties of the first months. There are changes, but mostly the baby does not move around, you can still put them down to play and they generally stay there. They also sleep longer, and the nights are better for everyone. You will see it will get better. Promise!
As a rule though, whenever one of us is stressed out and /or we are in a hurry, trying to leave on time etc. children somehow always pick it up in the air and the situation becomes worse. It's Murphy's Law! Trying to remember to pretend to be calm, is somehow much more efficient, but at times impossible to manage. Still even once is better than yelling, and feeling horrible afterwards all the time.
Hope this is of help...

Thanks again everyone for your help.

no advice...but your family sounds just like mine, and we sound rather alike...if I didn't know any better I would have thought you are me...

The only thing I try when I start to see red mist is count to 10 (or further) and breath deeply in the hope that I will calm down.

Wow this thread is so fascinating and reassuring. I went out with a friend last night who was worrying about general fury and shouting and feeling like she's the only one who struggles with this - i'm going to get her to read this!

I think of myself as a pretty calm person and usually patient with the children - it's dp with the red mist - but the other night the children were refusing to eat their dinner and fighting over a book and I threw it in the wood burner! Completely lost it. It happens and i think it happens to most people - so this thread is so useful at finding ways of averting it.

I was wondering too, this might have been said, but your son is now at the age you were when your mum died. Sometimes this can bring stuff up that you don't even know is there - and i'm sure anger would be one of them. It does sound like some CBT or counseling would be useful - but don't take ads that give you a bad reaction. Dp had horrible side effects with fluxetine but is fine with citalopram.

Good luck and well done for being so brave.

Thanks for being so brave and honest RedMist. I read the thread earlier today and keep chuckling out loud at the thought of Kirstie Alsop. I will try and remember that strategy when I am next on the verge of losing it with the DC. It has been a real relief to me to realise that other parents experience the same difficult situations.

Really glad that some of these tips have helped people - I think a lot of us will benefit so thanks.

Following on from the recommendation of Unconditional Parenting (which I think has its good points), I really rate Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen (www.playfulparenting.com) - it is about reconnecting with your kids through play and has lots of practical suggestions. Easy reading, not remotely preachy, practical, and very inspiring. It helped me a lot when I felt my relationship with my 2 year old was not right and I was getting angry all the time.

I've only read the first and last pages of this thread but Redmist, you sound so much happier it's hard to believe so much can change in so little time. I can't wait to read the rest of the thread as have been suffering with PND (ds2 five months old) but was too scared to go to doctor in case of SS and to scared to tell dh as thought it could be used against me in future divorce proceedings (not happening but to my mind at its worst definitely dh wouldn't be putting up with banshee from hell for much longer). Hadn't done anything physical but had had the most horrible thoughts re ds1 (3and a half). Have managed to open up to some friends, family and most importantly husband and am coping much better, rarely shouting, taking things a moment at a time etc. Have gone back to work 2 days a week and I think the time away from the family is helping too. Will keep watching.

Hi RM and everyone else,

How are yo doing? I've just seen that you've started reading Kohn's book -- it's a bit ful-on, isn't it? i found it really hard to take in places, but eventually had to concede that trying it at least as often as humanly possible (about 80% of the time or so) has helped.

Having said that, I didn't have a great day today. I have massive PMT, I'm tired and stressed, and ds1 (2.9) was winding me up in the most trying way: by abusing his little brother (10 months). this sends me batshit, especially when it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on....

Anyone have any suggestions for this one?

oregonian: sympathy on the abusing-the-baby issue. Middle DS used to make fairly determined efforts to "eliminate" DD on a regular basis. I dealt with it incredibly badly on an emotional level because my instinct to protect the baby overwhelmed anything else.

Obviously the best-case scenario is staying alert and making sure the two of them are never alone together (and preferably youngest is FAR away from eldest's toys).

I had to explain over and over and over again why he shouldn't hurt her. It helps to do this calmly, at a distance from the situation, and in a snuggly sort of way. The heat-of-the-moment - um -"explanation" always just seemed to confirm to DS that he was having an effect on me by picking on his sister.

A lot of those suggestions on this thread about changing the record could work too. If you can catch him early enough, remove him from the situation and give him a bit of attention, it can help to resolve things. Is the baby the kind that can play happily by himself for a bit, and do you have a safe place you can put him for 5-10 mins (cot/playpen/strapped into highchair) while you do something nice (story book/drawing/etc.) with his big brother? Sometimes that's all it takes to break things up a bit. Or you could get him to maybe do a couple of tiny chores - fetching and carrying small things, dusting a shelf, sticking on stamps, whatever - just to feel he's involved with you.

All rather easier said than done though when you are shattered too. If you have reached the apex of batshit (1) separate them (2) make sure they are safe and can't get at each other (3) shut yourself up in your 'sanctuary' and yell into a pillow for a bit.

just a suggestion.

IateRC: I just wanted to say how I feel your pain, and how reassuring it is to hear others going through the same as myself. (It's Bodkin, by the way, in disguise) My DD2 is not a bad sleeper, but she is VERY fractious and shouty when she's awake and has been driving me up the wall since she was about 3 months. I know it will get better as my DD1 was the same, but it doens't stop the rage boiling up inside when yuo feel like you've done everythign and they're still howling. I've lost the plot so many time over the last few weeks and I am just hoping my DP can keep forgiving me for being such a nutter.

Don't worry, I know you won't do anything to hurt your DS and you know that too.

I know we have quite different views on parenting, but I think you're doing brilliantly under very trying circumstances

Thank you Flossie. much appreciated and very sensible.

Tbh, I found Rosemary's post quite upsetting.
It's one thing to shout and get cross with a toddler (huge sympathy to RM) but quite another with a 6 month baby.

Sorry Evelynrose but I don't know how helpful it is to make Rosemary feel bad about the anger she feels towards her DS just because of his age.

I understand completely that horrible feeling of exhaustion, frustration and overwhelming uselessness when your LO won't sleep despite the fact they are totally exhausted. You can't talk to them so they will understand sleep is what they need because they are too little. You feel powerless and angry and all of this is warring with your massive love for them. This is her reality and something she is openly struggling with and looking for support...

It's good for anyone to openly seek help, but I do feel that age is relevant and that it's doing no one any good to condone any type of behaviour. The poster said that she "shouted and lifted him roughly". This just concerns me as I've never done this with any baby under one as they are so fragile (despite being stressed sometimes). I'm not trying to be unkind or unsupportive, but there sometimes needs to be a balance in a debate.

Sorry evelyn, you're missing the point.

Rosemary I felt just the same when mine were babies (DS didn't sleep through til 3.5yrs!). No advice except IT WILL GET BETTER. Mine have got steadily easier as they've grown.

Evelyn, even Rosemary isn't "condoning" her own behaviour - she's upset, and I suspect frightened about it, has bravely admitted to it and requested help. Rosemary - I've had the "would you please just GO TO SLEEP" shout at my dd, under 1, when just exhausted. It is horrible, but it does pass. If you feel your arms or mouth tense and start, put the baby down, screaming or no, walk out of the room, take a deep breath, count to 10 and then go back. And think about that film crew - possibly one of the best tips I've ever heard.

RedMist - I've been following this post with interest, and wanted to thank you for your bravery. I hope you and your family continue onwards and upwards!

Fair enough. Sorry if I've been insensitive or unhelpful. I had just read a particularly harrowing newspaper article on a similar topic when I posted, so possibly was feeling a bit over emotional.