I'm so viscious towards my children. I feel so much venom towards them.

[RedMist]

Name change regular.

I love my kids. They make me smile and proud.

Sometimes though, they drive me nuts. Actually, a lot of the time they drive me nuts. Like I have no time for them and they are nothing but an embuggarance. I wish they'd just leave me alone.

They mither for food and sweets a lot.

They prod, poke and provoke each other.

They trash every room, indeed even little corners I've just managed to organise or tidy. We live in a shit tip, no matter how long I spend clearing up & cleaning.

My son is 6.5 My daughter is 4.5.

I've started to lash out, really visciously. Tonight, I smacked my son across his face because he;d pushed his sister when he'd walked in the room. Then I started pushing him and saying "How do you like it eh? How do you like it when a bigger person pushes you around?"

Then I sent them to bed and refused to kiss my son good night. I was still shaking with anger at him for deliberately being a little shit.

My daughter pushes my buttons as well. She snaps and snarls and is deliberately rude, to gain attention. She whines and whines until my head feels like it's exploding.

I've read the parenting books. I know the right way to discipline. I just seem to have lost the ability to do it. I'm irrational and short-fused when ever the children are around.

What the fuck is wrong with me? Why am I like this?

I went to GP and he gave me fluxatine (sp?) - basically, prozac. It zonked me out so I stopped it.

Where do I turn to next. What shall I do?

I'm married and my DH helps with the children but he's quite untidy as well - simple DIY jobs for example, always end up with every tool and all the associated crap, just left lying around, waiting for me to clear them away. So that just adds to everything.

I need answers Mumsnet, or at least a place to start resolving this.

Any advice?

And I should just add (before flightattendant bollocks me for admitting to coffee in play area) I have reduced coffee from about 10 cups a day, to two plus a decaff at night

....and another thing I forgot to say

The book - Unconditional Parenting by Kohn, arrived! Read about half of it. I keep reading a bit and then thinking "yeah but...."

That said, I did notice today how much we expect the kids to be good and we do reward good behavour, punish bad and forget about each child as a whole. I mean, we do parent 'conditionally' - a lot.

I'll finish the book and post more thoughts at a later date.

Hmm, bit of a flashpoint this morning. We (adults) were up late and we were not as organised as we could have been (too busy having a nice time over the weekend, so some of the school morning prep was left undone).

Shouted at DS for not doing as he was asked (put toy down/put coat on)

Still, I recognised it for what is was (my fault, not his) and within a second, I knew I should have turned away for a moment and turned back and said "Give me the toy and I'll fix it for you for when you get home. Now put your coat on please".

Would have taken the same amount of time as shouting but with a better result.

I shall consider it as a warning that I still have such a long way to go and a success, in that I knew why it happened and what I should have done.

Redmist, have been permanently lurking on this thread and felt I should come out of hiding! Everything you've described rings so many bells with me too. I had bad pnd with two of mine, and came off the ads about 9 months ago. Since then it has been a real battle to control my temper, but the last few months have been much better.

I have cut right back on coffee (just one really strong one in the morning)
I have full-time help for 2 days (expensive but worth it, we decided -- we are not having an overseas holiday as a result)
I make sure we get out of the house once a day
I tickle them a lot when things are about to go into meltdown
I realised I got cross with myself for so much and would then take it out on them, so now we all say 'silly mummy' for whatever it is -- which they find hysterical
I plan the week's menus on Thursdays so that I can get the shopping done -- huge relief for everyone!
Having said that, I also try to take things one day at a time

Thank you so much for being so honest and giving everyone who reads this so much to help them. I'm going to get that book you mention, not because I imagine for a second I'll be able to follow it entirely, but I'm sure there'll be lots to take from it.

Faerie (I love your name BTW), the meal planning thing helps more than you think, doesn't it? It's like a pressure relief valve for me. I planned Thursday and on-line shopped on Friday. Food arrived Saturday evening. Now I don't have to waste time and energy thinking about it

exactly -- it's the list thing (I have a terrible list addiction) and I can't relax and have fun with dcs if I know I should be doing something.

Note to myself:-

Good thread just been started about counselling here

Must come back to it after I've seen the GP.

I think lists are a good addiction though!

Funny & oddly, I feel I can be more spontaneous when I have a list as well

Yes, absolutely, lists in moderation are the key to the universe! But in the past I have taken them to an obsessive level rather than getting on and doing things ...

balance, zen (and the art of child maintenance), all that sort of stuff

someone really ought to write "Zen and the art of child maintenance"... would definitely be cult reading...! So, is it going to be Redmist, or Faerie?!

orangina, I think it would be a joint effort by all the posters on here. I wonder if that's ever been done - Such and Such a Book, compiled by 101 different people, with different backgrounds, outlooks and experiences, via the internet. Not exactly catchy though, is it?

How may technical books are actually a collection of essays written by various folks and edited by an other expert.
Redmist, why don't you write the opening chapter and invite others to write one too.

P.S.
Well done for starting this thread and for all the advice you have solicited from other mums. I have found it so open, honest, in the main supportive and very, very helpful.
Thank you to everyone.
I too am addicted to lists and about to write our menus for the week. I have our favourite recipes on the computer and just cut and paste the ingredient lists into the shopping list.
It makes life so much easier, we save money and I only cook every other day.

OMG radleybaggirl, that is ORGANISED. I consider it an acheivement to have enough of some random ingredients, plus milk and bread at home. I love lists, more as a tool to attempt to clarify the swampy marsh that is my brain at present (btw, does it get any better? the porridge brain? have a feeling it's only downhill from here.... ). I find it v important to pop a few things on the list that can more or less be ticked off immediately, like "have bath". Very good for morale.
Redmist, a single editor, plus CASE STUDIES (I love case studies) made up of many posters' experiences... will be on the best sellers list before too long.

PMSL orangina-I start my lists with "make a list" - one to score off straightaway!!

One of my flashpoints is when I'm tired (er, all the time, then) if I sit down, I feel really sleepy and get much more annoyed if ds1 pesters me/whinges/sits on ds2 - these are the times I need to get up and do my star jumps/dance wildly to (ds1's favourite) ABBA. Good thread, thank you RedMist and all the contributors contributers posters

netmums produced a really good book called 'how to be a happy mum' which is a really good read and contains lots of real life anecdotes.

Was going to go to bed early but have just spent 2 hours reading this thread!- and it was so worth it. Thankyou RM for being so brave and starting it off.
I have moments of rage that descend on me that I have not always dealt with very well. I too have been physical on a few occassions but mostly I shout or put the kids down which I think is as bad.
There are so many great ideas on this thread that I have started my own list- I especially like the one about 'pretending' to be the calm earth mother so that eventaully you become more like it- I hope it works.
BTW I often think that I am actually angry at someone or something else and 'take it out' on my kids who happen to be there. But I also do think it is a control thing- its all going well and then one of them will decide not to nap for some reason and scupper my plans- I guess I need to go with the flow more.
Anyway don't want to hi-jack but thanks again this is all really helpful

argh! please line up to kick me up the arse, after 4 nights of sitting with my dd till she goes to sleep (gradual withdrawal) tonight she decided to play silly buggers and mess about. instead of ignoring her and not giving her any attention i completely played into her hands and lost my temper.
i shouted and told her off.

however, i was able to see that this was more my fault than her's. i should have known that at some point she was going to test my resolve and see if she could push the boundaries, and i walked right in to it.

getting angry just made her upset and me feel like shit, so although i did shout and tell her off, i gave her a cuddle and we apologise to each other, tomorrow night i will be ready!!!

2happy, tiredness gets me as well. That's where I'm wondering if the bedroom sanctuary idea might kick in - take a brew up there and just sit for 5 minutes, without being pestered. Not had chance to try it yet, so I'll let you know when I do!

Orangina, All my lists have 50% attainable and 50% of "what the frig was I thinking when I put that on the list??!! unattainable"

What discipline method are you using with the children? If you are not using 1-2-3, then consider it as it works well (in general) with children of this age. Last week I started to use it with a 9 year old who is very challenging, and by the end of the week he was a much nicer child - though it will take some time yet.

With 1-2-3 you count STOP behaviour, things you want the children to stop doing, such as fighting, throwing.
After the initial period, children often start responding at 1 or 2... 3 year old I care for responded at 1 yesterday, when he started throwing items at his sister.

Nannynick, the unconditional parent would NEVER count to 3.... though I do, and more or less as soon as I start, dd gets in a panic and starts to cry, so perhaps there is something in the unconditional parent (which I struggle with, as it's very difficult to set boundaries with all this unconditional love going on, plus, when on EARTH are there just a few minutes for me? Perhaps an unconditional parent shouldn't ever expect to have me time...)
Bloody hell, it's a minefield.
I find dd's bedtimes quite stressful due to tiredness on both our behalfs (sp? grammar?) and the fact that she always wants one more kiss, one more hug, a glass of water, another pee, a different toy/book etc, and that's when I'm most likely to lose my rag (which horribly actually does the trick, and she shuts up and finally goes to sleep). I have been trying NOT to get out the door as soon as humanly possible and give her just a few more minutes, slightly on my terms (I'll rub your back while you snuggle down and go to sleep, no chatting, etc), and the other evening while I was doing that, she said "Mummy, you're my best friend", which was so sweet.... makes me wonder why I was in such a rush to get her to bed (btw, I'm talking about after 8pm and she is only 2.9, so it's hardly early?!).
Using the light box fairly regularly and glugging my st johns wort and it is feeling easier.
redmist, re: lists, we are our own worse enemy I think, if the list seems too easy, I find myself chucking some of those unattainables on it like "put all (ie last 15 years) photos in albums". DO I have albums? No. Do I know where all said photos are? No. Do I have a spare 5 minutes to even clip my toenails let alone sort and arrange photos in a martha stewart manner? Bugger me, NO.

PS: would love bedroom as sanctuary, but it is just an extended playroom and the idea of spending any clam time in there is a joke. Need at least a day to put it in order... haven't got the day, and if I did, would want to do something else other than tidy bedroom (am not a domestic goddess sadly... )

Hello

Sympathies - I am struggling with PND and anger at the moment! Also anger in western women is a growing issue and one we need to SOLVE and not further PUNISH - soapbox. I am not excusing behavior, but there's usually enough guilt sloshing around in any woman's life to compound and further aggravate depression.

Something does need to be done - talk to the docs about medication and about "counselling". I know it's really difficult to be honest - I have another appt today - but try to tell them as much of the truth as possible. If you are as honest as possible with them, they can get you the help you need.

Does your school have a FLO (a Family Liaison Officer)? Ours does and she has really helped some of the mums who are having a difficult time - they're not SS, but are attached to the school and can put you in touch with different support groups, or help directly with support and advice.

Would your children be open to blackmail? - tidying games are a popular pastime in our house, but it does take a lot of energy to get them going, also I bribe - sorry incentivise - my older child to help as her contributions to the home earn her her pocket money - this could be 'treats' for younger children.

Do you work outside the home and is working situation compounding homelife (too much, too little, wrong job etc)??

Do you have a friend you can be honest with, who won't condemn you? If so, try having a chat - it certainly helps me.

Is there a particular trigger for the anger? Could you get the kids and yourself out of the house when feeling pressurised, as out in the open we are often more civilised, even if it's just a walk to the park or the supermarket?

Do persevere with getting the help, I'm sure, like many of us, you want to change, not wind up on the news!

Good luck and keep talking - it's the first step.

Look.

3 people at the beginning of this thread reacted to RedMists account of the state she was in with an honest reaction of anger etc. All 3 then offered support / acknowledgement that redMist was taking constructive steps and welcomed that she was doing so - which amounts to bloody strong non-patronising supoprt in my book. afaics from reding, RedMist understood their honesty, and was corageous.

Can we please stop harping on about a small number of posts from last week? If you haven't read the whole thread, don't comment on bits of it, perhaps?