11 yo DD just hit me and pushed me to the ground.

[reallyupset11yodd]

Looking for some advice. Background is DD does have a temper and has pushed her younger brother and is the most challenging of my children. She is not spoilt but has a lovely family, home, school, friends, a phone and laptop.

DH is away all weekend and I am alone with 3 kids for mothers day. I said at dinner time to DD (11) and DS (9) I was hurt they hadn't given a card or gift for mothers day. DS immediately felt awful, ran to get the gift he had previously bought me and he and youngest DD (2) gave me a cuddle and apologised. DS then told DD she should be doing something (dh had apparently left a box of chocs and card with DD for her to give me). DD chased DS and hurt him, I sent hereto her room and followed her upstairs. I told her she could still eat dinner but I would be taking the lollipops she had saved in her drawer so she wouldn't eat them. She launched herself at me, pushed me to the ground and hit me in the head while screaming swear words at me. I calmly took her laptop, ipad and phone.

She has since told me she wishes I would die, she has pulled all the bedding off all beds and pulled my office drawers out so my work is all over the office.

I don't know what to do. I am sat here crying wondering how it could get to this point. What would you do in my situation?

@reallyupset11yodd

No special needs, is a high achiever and sporty sandlots of friends. But she has always had a temper and struggled to keep it in check.

I hope she does feel awful later, I worry she is missing empathy (which is part of what prompted me to mention it earlier as she is by default quite selfish).

Thanks all, it's quite isolating. I have spoken to DH who is home very late tonight, he feels awful and said he is so sorry he's not here for me/us right now.

Re empathy - I think most children are innately self-centred, and hopefully learn to think about others as they get older. Some develop empathy earlier than others maybe, but I don't think we are born with it (or not all of us). My DD (13) is a lovely girl, but she admitted a few years ago that she couldn't get upset about seeing starving children on the news because she didn't know them. I was horrified, but she was only about 8, and I do think it's a learned skill.

It seems a little odd your DD forgot your stuff on the day - as PPs have said she obviously feels guilty. My two DCs aren't the most empathetic, but they make me cards each year (organised by DH) and would then want the credit by having me appreciate them.... And they pick me daffs from the garden and bring me coffee in bed.

But if they forgot and I said I was hurt they would be hugely apologetic, and giggle, and hug me a lot. Your DD's reaction does seem extreme, and I'd think there might be value in speaking to your GP in case hormones or something are making her act inappropriately. She may become more volatile, and perhaps learning how to manage that sooner rather than later might be a good thing?

I'm sorry you've had such a horrible day. I hope your DD is sorry tomorrow and you can have a good talk - but you're not wrong in finding her behaviour worrying......

I don't like the dynamics of parents making their children feel responsible for their feelings- in this instance "you hurt my feelings by not giving me a card". I've seen first hand this relationship between a (now adult) son and mother and it's a total mess. As parents you shouldn't be guilt tripping your children into some commercial concept. Taking away her lollipops etc after already making her feel ashamed - it sounds rather like you're controlling and bullying her and she is lashing out out of frustration and not being able to process these emotions she shouldn't be subjected to. Yes children behave badly at times but the roots usually come from parental behaviour. Try to get to the bottom of what happened because it sounds as if she is deeply troubled if she's that violent.

@reallyupset11yodd a high achiever who loses her temper a lot could definitely be sen.
Look up autism, I did t know much about it until my child was diagnosed. The situation you described is very much what I've had with my children. Please see it from the viewpoint that she was extremely overwhelmed and unable to deal with what was going on

[quote Innocenta]@BingBangB0ng Yes, I agree. Sorry, my reply to you wasn't very well-phrased at all. What troubles me so much is the dearth of empathy for the child. I don't think it's inherently wrong to empathise with parents who have behaved (even significantly) badly. In general I think we can only learn from empathy, even for genuinely awful people (not anyone on this thread; I'm talking really nasty types...).

So why is it so hard for some to empathise with this DD? [/quote]
because she violently assaulted her mother i guess ? without any provocation , i dont think i would have been getting much empathy if id assaulted my mother and trashed areas of the house just because shed said she was a bit hurt id forgotten mothers day , in fact i did forget once at a similar age despite my dad giving me money to get something and i didnt have a violent wobbly on her , i felt suitably ashamed and no i didnt then and dont now feel like she bloody guilt tripped me , i expect its why we have such a fucked up violent generation of kids on our hands now , because of so many of the views peddled on this thread , we mustnt expect to much of kids its guilt tripping them , mustnt punish them its escalating it , if they attack us must be something we did to provoke it . no wonder so many of them grow up into horrible entitled adults that think the world owes them something and those are the ones that just dont turn into outright violent thugs

@Enough4me

I know autism can present differently in girls but we can only go from the information we have been provided with in this thread and that is that the child does not have SEN.

Therefore if the child does not have SEN she has severe anger issues which will be because of a dysfunctional family dynamic. It will not be because of some “chemical imbalance” within the brain.

It seems like you have taken the advice OP. You absolutely did not deserve to be hit by your daughter but I can understand why she got angry. I hope she calms down by the morning and you can have a proper chat with her and show her you do understand her point of view but that hitting is wrong. Is there any way she can diffuse her anger if something like this should happen again? Maybe look at some anger management skills. I do feel for your daughter as I remember being that age and my hormones made me so angry at everything, and I think if my mum had said what you did I would’ve felt guilty but got defensive. I’m sure she does regret what she’s done, maybe check in on her if you get the chance. I hope you’re both okay.

@chaosrabbitland I don't even know what to say to that. If you really can't empathise with an eleven year old child, then you need to reflect on why and consider that the problem may be you.

she no special educational needs

I would be very careful with this. Girls are massively and routinely either not diagnosed, misdiagnosed or not effectively treated. As well this there may be events which have happened which her DM may be unaware of. Bullying is one of these.

@Comedycook

I said at dinner time to DD (11) and DS (9) I was hurt they hadn't given a card or gift for mothers day

I'm not excusing her behaviour but I don't think you should have said this. They are really young still and most kids wouldn't remember without another adult to prompt them.

11 and 9 are old enough to understand their mother's hurt feelings, they're not babies, some people on this site seem to never stop making excuses.

@reallyupset11yodd I always had a little bit of a temper, but I was a right little shit around your DD's age, and I would sometimes get violent towards my DM too. I'm not proud of it, but I will admit it here to try to help you understand your DD's perspective.

Basically, I went though puberty quite young and I didn't know how to handle it. I might have done the same in your DD's position. You reminded her of something she did that was bad, her younger DBro immediately did something better than her and even her younger DSis did something that you found acceptable. She felt bad, and her DBro compounded those feelings by pointing out her failure.

The trouble with all the puberty hormones is sometimes they hit before you're emotionally mature enough to understand the impact on your actions on others and to think through things before doing them.

How she acted was unacceptable. But now you know how difficult it is for her to process frustration and rage, you need to phrase things with more sensitivity going forwards, and you need to take care not to let her siblings wind her up so much (hard, when that's all siblings do sometimes). I'm not saying you're to blame at all, just pointing out she can't control her triggers properly yet, and you may be able to help diffuse things whilst she's getting more control.

What really helped me was my DM waiting until I was calm and had thought things through, and telling me that she didn't love my behaviour, but she still loved me. Quite often I wouldn't be able to say I was sorry, but she'd know I was sorry, and we'd both move on, rather than her forcing it. Hearing my DM reassure me she still loved me was really important to me, even if I didn't react particularly lovingly.

I wasn't awful to my teachers. I wasn't awful to my DF or my DBro. I was only awful to my DM, because she the only one I knew in my gut would always, always be there for me and who wouldn't give up on me. I grew out of being a little shit when the hormones settled down, and I remain incredibly close towards my DM as an adult.

Sometimes children can behave badly and it's not a reflection on your parenting skills. I promise you that. Your DD has had a major meltdown and you've had a shock, but this doesn't mean this is who she is now and forever.

This sounds to me like a massive build up of resentment which this incident has triggered. Could that be the case. Always the one to be told off and blamed.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Of course girls are missed for autism, nothing new that.

I guess we will not know the true dynamics, but IF she is NT (and that’s an if) then it is disturbing behaviour and there will be a reason for it.

PS I'm really sorry you had such a shitty Mother's Day.

i expect its why we have such a fucked up violent generation of kids on our hands now

Do we? As far as I can tell, violent crime in recent years was highest around 1995. Which considering the age of typical offenders would mean children who were parented in the 70s and 80s, when smacking and harsh parenting were more normal.

Seems like the opposite of what you believe. Actually gentler parenting has resulted in fewer violent crimes.

OP just read you saying you're in tears reading the harsh responses - I'm sorry but it smacks of the "you've all upset me so you've made me cry" tone. It's the guilt trip thing again. Your behaviour really resonates with me as the same as another mother I know who always says she so disappointed/ sad/ hurt/ in pain - she even says it to my three year old to garner sympathy. It's not normal. If you're honest with yourself is this something you are in a habit of doing?

Firstly I wouldn’t be making my children feel guilty over them forgetting to give you Mother’s Day presents, which made one feel awful the little one aged 2 giving you a cuddle and apologise! Your DD chasing your son and hurt him Maybe she ate the chocs who knows! But she pushed you over while launching herself at you and swearing hit you in the head and telling you she wanted you to die! Wow! Pulled the bedding off all the beds, and wrecked your office! Something very wrong here ! You say she’s the most challenging of the children and has a temper, certain sounds like it! She sounds deeply unhappy op , I would be sitting her down and try to find out what’s going on with her! Then trying to get all the help I possibly could for your daughter! It’s very worrying

An attack by a child on its mother should always be taken seriously, particularly when it involves repeated blows. She has broken an important taboo. You cannot afford to have her think she is getting away with this.

Her nervous system was in emergency mode, by the sounds of it. No reasoning z shouting, punishments can jolt her out of it in the moment and it doesn't matter that someone else wouldn't feel the same as she clearly did.

@JennySpanner

I don't like the dynamics of parents making their children feel responsible for their feelings- in this instance "you hurt my feelings by not giving me a card". I've seen first hand this relationship between a (now adult) son and mother and it's a total mess. As parents you shouldn't be guilt tripping your children into some commercial concept. Taking away her lollipops etc after already making her feel ashamed - it sounds rather like you're controlling and bullying her and she is lashing out out of frustration and not being able to process these emotions she shouldn't be subjected to. Yes children behave badly at times but the roots usually come from parental behaviour. Try to get to the bottom of what happened because it sounds as if she is deeply troubled if she's that violent.

Yet another poster who hasn't read the thread, or even just the OP's later comments. The OP has already acknowledged that perhaps she could have handled the card and present thing differently. You - and the other 20 posters who've said the same thing since the OP already acknowledged it - are not helping. No the OP is not controlling and bullying FGS. 'Try to get to the bottom of what happened' - no shit? You should get an award for that insightful comment. Guess what? The OP has already described how she is planning to calmly talk things through with the DD when the DH is home. And she is such a controlling bully that she has already run the DD a bath and told her she loves her. READ THE THREAD.

@Pumperthepumper

Of course it is. You see how this child reacts to punishments. It’s an unfair way of asserting dominance and nothing else.

So what is OP supposed to do about a child who hurts her little brother?

@JennySpanner

It does scream a bit poor me again (whilst we all sit here and agree on how awful this 11 year old truly is).

Well I’m sorry, I’m not buying it.

She’s an incredibly angry 11 year old child who sounds like she doesn’t really like her mother very much. Maybe there’s a reason for that? How do we know?

We know nothing. OP, please implement boundaries and quickly. Your daughter may thank you for it.

[quote Innocenta]@chaosrabbitland I don't even know what to say to that. If you really can't empathise with an eleven year old child, then you need to reflect on why and consider that the problem may be you. [/quote]
umm . its ok thanks , i will save my empathy for other worthy causes than violent 11 year olds , i just think its almost funny how so many are victim blaming the op rather than suggesting that indeed her daugter does have a serious problem to have reacted this way and needs to have this investigated ,, and no i dont feel i need to reflect on that and why i might have a problem . just about the only thing im going to be reflecting on is the rabbits upcoming spay next week and the problem of managing my anxiety for worry over her , thanks for the concern for my mental state though

@JennySpanner

OP just read you saying you're in tears reading the harsh responses - I'm sorry but it smacks of the "you've all upset me so you've made me cry" tone. It's the guilt trip thing again. Your behaviour really resonates with me as the same as another mother I know who always says she so disappointed/ sad/ hurt/ in pain - she even says it to my three year old to garner sympathy. It's not normal. If you're honest with yourself is this something you are in a habit of doing?

Jesus Christ!! Op is in tears because her 11 year old child has assaulted her, she's in pain and worried about her child and a bunch on Mumsnetters decided to stick the boot in rather than be supportive. Op if you're still reading, you're not alone I'd have been tearful too reading all this lot.

This is really quite and unpleasant and unnecessary post to read!

All these excuses, the OP shouldn’t have to walk on egg shells in case her 11 year old daughter beats her up!

No, definitely not. The OP shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and her daughter needs to understand that violence is never acceptable AND her daughter needs compassion and help to 1. find out what is wrong and causing this outburst and 2. how to address it.

Step in before that happens. Diffuse the situation.