11 yo DD just hit me and pushed me to the ground.

[reallyupset11yodd]

Looking for some advice. Background is DD does have a temper and has pushed her younger brother and is the most challenging of my children. She is not spoilt but has a lovely family, home, school, friends, a phone and laptop.

DH is away all weekend and I am alone with 3 kids for mothers day. I said at dinner time to DD (11) and DS (9) I was hurt they hadn't given a card or gift for mothers day. DS immediately felt awful, ran to get the gift he had previously bought me and he and youngest DD (2) gave me a cuddle and apologised. DS then told DD she should be doing something (dh had apparently left a box of chocs and card with DD for her to give me). DD chased DS and hurt him, I sent hereto her room and followed her upstairs. I told her she could still eat dinner but I would be taking the lollipops she had saved in her drawer so she wouldn't eat them. She launched herself at me, pushed me to the ground and hit me in the head while screaming swear words at me. I calmly took her laptop, ipad and phone.

She has since told me she wishes I would die, she has pulled all the bedding off all beds and pulled my office drawers out so my work is all over the office.

I don't know what to do. I am sat here crying wondering how it could get to this point. What would you do in my situation?

@reallyupset11yodd Oh OP you're doing your best. I am really surprised though that she's still being defensive and your olive branch (bath and I love you) was still met with defiance. It makes this seem less likely that DD had a knee jerk reaction and feels guilty, and more likely that this has been building up a while and she has low empathy.

Also hitting her mother is unacceptable. Full stop. All these posts about how DD shouldn't be punished and listening to parents talk to their children about 'big feelings' and pandering is probably why so many kids are so badly behaved and entitled.

@MrsTerryPratchett that is a very wise post.

I think possibly I need a more relentlessly positive story about himself for DS. I partly have it, but it is very hard sometimes! He knows I think he is challenging but that I love him no matter what.

@reallyupset11yodd If you are still here I hope you are ok. It is really upsetting to have that kind of confrontation with your child. I have been there a few times and it is hard to remain calm so well done on that. Especially as you were actually knocked down. I am glad you are seeking therapy.

I think the best approach is a combination of consequences and empathy. Understand, sympathize, look for familiar triggers that can be avoided and ways to de-escalate situations but also impose firm and consistent consequences for violent behavior.

I’ve found this thread very educational.

OP sounds like a shit day all round, I think you sound incredibly loving and like you’ll sort the dynamic.

TerryP - absolutely brilliant posts and some of it really resonates with my childhood. I would never have been violent to my parents, it all was turned inwards but it’s been a bit of a lightbulb moment. I still feel guilty and responsible for everyone’s feelings now.

There is always always a reason why children are ‘difficult’
For me the act of violence would be the least of my worries - something is wrong op.
I hope you have lots of RL support & help

@Closetbeanmuncher

*"just a child" excuse is no longer valid.

What absolute nonsense.

Pumper is being incredibly unhelpful, of course you had to follow her and of course there need to be consequences if she hurts people. And I think you did well to stay calm. And 11 and 9 is NOT too young to think about your mum - my boys have never failed to make me a card and are excited to give me presents in the morning, we all get excited to give gifts to each other. It's hardly terribly damaging guilt tripping to point out that they should have thought about you, it's necessary education - they cant go through life not thinking of anyone else!

@CityHigh

Yep exactly this.
Can see why so many entitled bratty adults are around now.
Can’t get over the victim blaming, blaming OP and the brother.
The girl needs serious help, I think OP under reacted and maybe has been for a while for the kid to think this is alright to do in the first place.

@OutlookStalking

No it really isnt Spring. Have you looked at statistics of those in prison with dyslexia, trauma, high ACEs etc. And does prison actually work in most cases....?

Oh come on! We've all seen kids who reign terror on everyone around them and get no consequences from their parents even when they witness it! These kids are always the ones who go on to end up in prison on robbery/fraud charges etc. 2 kids immediately spring to mind from my school who ended up with one of those charges each, amongst many, many others. One lived on the next street and terrorised everyone yet anyone dare try to gently raise it with the parents and all hell broke loose. That kid believed he could get away with anything and usually did!

Staggered at the naïveté on this thread!

So his parents were violent?

They are really young still and most kids wouldn't remember without another adult to prompt them.

At 9 and 11? You're kidding me. The eldest is at secondary school, Mothers Day is in our faces this weekend, and their dad reminded them.

My kids wouldn't have needed reminding or having their dad buy the stuff for them to give, either. FFS give kids these kids (who are not "really young" - that would be about five or six years old) credit for having some experience and awareness of life.

There is nothing wrong with OP saying that she was disappointed and upset. And everything wrong with what the DD did.

@Pumperthepumper Stop talking such utter nonsense! I genuinely cannot believe you're a teacher. It actually scares me, I have a child in education. Yikes!

In terms of the worst parenting (referring to experiences of people who are disordered or challenging), its unpredictable, frightening which veers from being unboundaried and unstructured to harsh meaningless penalties

Its not correct to say that its not good for children to have consequences and punishments but they must be proportionate and 'fit the crime' and be consistent, not veer from one day to the next.

Add to that, that children need to see their parents empathy and modelling emotional regulation and containment, not letting their needs overspill onto the kids, being 'friends' with their children. There need to be clear boundaries.

[quote SpringsSprung]@Pumperthepumper Stop talking such utter nonsense! I genuinely cannot believe you're a teacher. It actually scares me, I have a child in education. Yikes! [/quote]
What did you mean by ‘all hell broke loose’ then?

I'd have called the bloody police! She punched you in the head! She is over the age of criminal responsibility and has assaulted you so call the police, let them come out and give her a caution.

I can assure you no-one outside the family will hesitate to do so, should she get violent with them.

She needs a ton of bricks not a bloody bath and I love you! I can see easily how she is turning out as a horrible little thug, she has no consequences!

Parent your child fgs. I'm sorry to be harsh but come on! This isn't a tantrum, its punishable in court. Had she hit anyone but you she'd have a criminal record.

Would you have dared strike your mum at 11? I wouldn't! If she didn't knock me out herself, my dad would have.

What do you think will happen if she does this to someone at school? I can tell you what will happen if its my child she hits.

I would immediately call the police and the next day her older sister would likely ignore me and be waiting in the playground to give your DD the pasting of a lifetime.

She would learn her lesson one way or the other but if it's you who teaches her, she has a much better chance of keeping all her teeth.

No one else is going to think twice about her future before calling police and no one else will like her enough not to hit her. Sort her out before someone else does.

@Pumperthepumper

So his parents were violent?

What? No! They laughed at him when he was slashing tyres and stealing from vehicles etc etc! Where on earth did you get his parents being violent from!? Your reading comprehension is off the charts strange

@Pumperthepumper

I think you need to calm yourself down. You guilt tripped her and backed her into a corner. Do further punishments mean she didn’t push you? No. So give them back and talk to her about her reaction.

Omg why are people falling over themselves to excuse this vile behaviour from an almost 12 year old. Nothing justifies what she did. I wouldn’t have dared treat my mum this way.

Absolutely shocking.

she should be ashamed of herself.

Please can we stop with the SEN excuses, the OP has already said there are none. This little girl has according to her Mum a good family life, no trauma's and is loved and cared for. Sometimes people have nasty tempers and lash out, maybe that is the case here. Not everything can be excused away with a label. This girl needs a bloody firm line and told in no uncertain terms that her behaviour is unacceptable and their are consequences to her actions. She needs to learn this at home before she punches the wrong person and they retaliate with either their fist or worse. Not every person is lovely, there are some bloody awful people out there who won't take shit from her.

@Pumperthepumper 🤣 I meant his parents screamed at anyone who complained about their son's actions!

It was on here, years ago, that someone recommended that I look up Autism with PDA (Pathological demand avoidance). It literally described DD to a tee.
Have a Google OP and see if you recognise it in her. By using less confrontational language we have improved our communication and our lives immeasurably.
I hope you have a quiet evening and a better day tomorrow

@reallyupset11yodd

I've run her a bath which she has had and told her I love her and we will talk tomorrow. Hopefully she's off to sleep. She is not conciliatory, she is still defensive :(

To the posters mentioning the 2 yo maybe I worded a prior post badly but of course I don't expect anything or an apology from her, the conversation was with my 2 eldest, the toddler was busy putting lasagne in her hair rather than in her mouth.

I am drawn to a couple of posters who mentioned being externally confident/achieving but internally were anxious and angry due to ADHD. DD is a deep thinker, quick to be embarrassed, quick to anger and I think she does get anxious, she also lacks focus at times (takes ages to get ready/forgets basics like brushing teeth without being reminded ).

I am also trying to reflect on if I am a guilt tripper, maybe I do phrase things in that type of way sometimes and I am going to reflect on that because I want a good relationship with my children, I love them with all my heart and I want to raise them so they can be the people they want to be. This violence isn't my daughter, it's not who she is at any level. It was a reaction/action and I need to find a way to help her never have that reaction again.

Thank you to all the kind words, it has been a shitty day but I appreciate the virtual support.

Aw, OP. You sound like a lovely mum. And your description of your DD doesn't surprise me in the least.

DD is a deep thinker, quick to be embarrassed, quick to anger and I think she does get anxious,

You will be okay, and your DD will be okay. You can and will find a way through this. I'm not saying it will be simple or easy, but I hope you are a bit reassured. Sometimes a huge fight clears the ground to allow us to rebuild, focus on what is really important.

I also wanted to add that all children have been through an exceptionally difficult and uncertain two years (as have parents) and I think many are only just now starting to unwind, unravel. I think lots of fear and emotion has been suppressed and I think it will take time, patience and compassion to help children work through it. Explosive emotions may be to be expected.

Lastly, while looking at relationships is great, please don't blame yourself - when I said you need to rise above the blaming game that includes you! Compassion for all, yourself as a priority.

They laughed at him when he was slashing tyres and stealing from vehicles etc etc!

And this is ‘all hell breaking loose’?

@LadyTwinkle

So you basically wound your daughter up and made her feel guilty and like an awful person because she didn't give you the gift you knew she had. It wasn't like she hadn't got you anything she just hadn't given it to you yet. She's 11 fgs. the situation didn't need to escalate to violence. This is exactly the sort of gaslighting type of crap my mum used to do to me. Which would give me an internal rage. She would orchestrate the situation to make herself the victim of her horrible children, but that was just in her head. You can't punish someone for not giving you a gift. It should come from the heart. Just because you're her mum doesn't mean you deserve it. Maybe she just didn't want to give you a present? And to be fair given your reaction l don't blame her.

@LadyTwinkle

Are you taking the piss?

Stop victim blaming, you sound fucking ridiculous

[quote SpringsSprung]@Pumperthepumper 🤣 I meant his parents screamed at anyone who complained about their son's actions! [/quote]
So they responded disproportionately?

Oh and FYI - 'No consequences for bad behaviour' in parenting is precisely why the prisons are full to capacity.......

@SpringsSprung I've worked in prisons, treatment, housing, SW for decades. The reason people are in prison is a list including: abuse and neglect, bereavement, witnessing violence as a child, head injuries, addiction, cognitive disabilities, sexual abuse in childhood, trauma, MH, PTSD and on and on. If you removed all the people who had MH issues, head injuries and trauma from prison, they'd be a ghost town.

Permissive parenting makes people a pain in the arse, but it doesn't land them in prison without something else going on. My guess is that the children raising hell were also witnessing violence at home.