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Original poster

Would you leave your 8 year old DS in the library reading while you went to the shop?

251 replies

LittleSleighBellasRinging · 30/12/2007 17:41

This was the dilemma which faced me yesterday. I needed to go and get some milk because we were running out, he really didn't want to come and suggested that I leave him in the library reading. He insisted he wouldn't talk to any strangers, he wouldn't go off with anyone, and he wouldn't leave the building unless it was a fire alarm and he stayed with the library workers.

I considered it very very seriously and nearly let him, but in the end I was too scared. Was I wrong? I think I probably was, I think at 8 years old he is old enough to be left in that kind of environment, but I just couldn't bring myself to cut the apron strings. I would have been about twenty minutes to half an hour.

So. Am I a responsible parent or a suffocating neurotic risk-averse idiot? When and how should I allow him to do this? What do you think?

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Cocobear · 31/12/2007 15:19

With all that's been said, I still reckon I'd leave an 8-year-old alone in our urban library for half an hour. I've never noticed anyone shooting up behind the Harry Potter display in the children's section. And I reckon I'd leave him there for half an hour before I'd let him walk there alone (a couple people have mentioned this, and I'm not sure why dodging traffic is a good training ground for sitting on his bum with a book in a public space).

redadmiral · 31/12/2007 15:44

Think they are just making the point that the child is not truly independent until he or she can go to and from the library unaided. If they can't they are still someone's responsibility. IMO.

Janni · 31/12/2007 18:14

The people using children's libraries should be CHILDREN, with or without their carer. What business would a dodgy adult have in a children's library? I just don't get it. It should not be that difficult to maintain a safe environment for an eight year old to sit and read books. I live in central London and am a former mental health nurse. I'm well acquainted with the problems of drugs/alcohol etc, but people with those problems should, automatically be ushered away from the children's library for the sake of the toddlers there with their parents, as well as older unaccompanied children. There HAVE to be safe places for children and a children's library should be one of them.

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Desiderata · 31/12/2007 19:23

I wonder what the law says, if anything, on the subject?

OverRated · 31/12/2007 19:31

Haven't read the whole thread but No, I wouldn't. I can see how it'd be tempting though.

fortyplus · 01/01/2008 19:33

SantaBabyBeenAnAwfulGoodGirl - you're 100% right there. Our local Sports Centre allows unaccompanied children from 12 years, but some years ago an unaccompanied 9 year old went to the 'inflatables' session on a Saturday morning and was found drowned at the end of the session when staff took the equipment out of the water. No one had noticed her - she got stuck underneath a large inflatable.

foofi · 02/01/2008 08:13

Unaccompanied children are allowed at 8 at our pool, and I have frequently left mine there at that age.

cornsilk · 02/01/2008 08:20

How times have changed. At 8 I regularly walked to the library in the town centre, browsed for as long as I liked, took out my books and toddled off home. I would struggle to get my 9 year old in a library now.(unless it lent out toys)
However swimming pools not a safe place for an unattended 8 year old IMO due to the risk of accidents.

cornsilk · 02/01/2008 08:22

Although the supervision differs from pool to pool. Our local one is crap, lifeguards half asleep. Other pools may be better supervised, so each to their own. Depends on child also obviously.

seeker · 02/01/2008 08:37

Can I ask the people who wouldn't leave a sensible 8 year old sitting on a bean bag with a book in a children's library for half an hour exactly what they think is going to happen to them?

foofi · 02/01/2008 08:40

As some have said before, it's sometimes more about the fear about what others say/think when you leave than actually leaving them.

cornsilk · 02/01/2008 08:43

Agree it's more to do with what people would think and say. It's a shame.

seeker · 02/01/2008 08:49

Why would they think or say anything? Apart from anything else, how would they know you weren't just round the corner in the adult section? Anyway, what on earth business is it of anyone else's?

pinetreedog · 02/01/2008 10:01

and why are we so frightened of what people would say?

mloo · 02/01/2008 10:12

I got reported to Social Services for less (well, in my mind it was less). I don't know about anyone else but I have to assume that one of my neighbours would think leaving 8yo alone in library was worth reporting me for, too.
I am pretty sure that all the county libraries have a policy of letting 8yos stay in the library unaccompanied actually, but that's irrelevant because SS have their own criteria.
It only takes one phone call...

pinetreedog · 02/01/2008 10:15

I don't want to pry, mloo, but didn't SS just go through the motions and realise straight away you were a sensible person?

LittleBellasRingingInTheNew · 02/01/2008 10:16

pinetreedog - I think people are afraid of what other people think, in case the other people don't just think, but act. A well-meaning stranger who decided that an 8 year old alone in a library required a call to social services, is an object of fear.

The fear of SS is a big factor in people's paranoid parenting, imo.

LittleBellasRingingInTheNew · 02/01/2008 10:16

oops cross posted with mloo

pinetreedog · 02/01/2008 10:22

I find that almost ridiculous. A host of people not giving their children a little freedom because they're frightened of social services.

I think if that's the case pressure should be put on SS to talk to parents and clarify their remit. It's just ludicrous

LittleBellasRingingInTheNew · 02/01/2008 10:28

Couldn't agree with you more, PTD.

mloo · 02/01/2008 10:29

I suppose that's true, pinetreedog (there wasn't really any followup). But the point is you can end up with a big fat file with SS even if you are allowing things that are borderline at worst. And the bigger and fatter the file is, more likely SS will think there's some kind of true underlying problem. Wouldn't matter if the person making the report just had a vendetta against you, they're protected by mechanisms to keep them anon, so it's worthwhile not taking the chance... unless you're much tougher than me about dealing with 'authorities', I guess.

redadmiral · 02/01/2008 10:37

Hello Seeker.

I am one of the people who wouldn't leave my child in the library at 8 years. The main reason in my case is that we use the library freqently and we know and are very friendly with most of the staff. Children do use the libbrary unaccompanied, but IME they are only the ones approaching secondary school age and they come in on their own. I do leave both my daughters (including my 3 year-old if they are together and reading quietly) while I browse the adult section - it's all on the same floor. They are out of my sight and I am comfortable with that. However I would consider it as sneaky to leave the library completely without mentioning it to the staff as I would if my children were with another parent and I just went off to do a bit of shopping. If it was accepted practice in the library and the staff were happy with it I would, but in our library I've never known it.

I think an interesting thing this thread brings up is that it 8 seems to be the age when people start to think about how much independence their child should have, and it's never an easy thing. It's easy to have strong opinions when your children are still at the 'Shall I stay at the party with them' stage. When it comes down to letting them out alone I think most parents do worry and that's natural, surely?

LittleBellasRingingInTheNew · 02/01/2008 10:44

No-one wants SS involved because you can't be sure they'll just "go through the motions and realise you're a sensible person". They might decide you're practicing satanic abuse, or that you have msbp, or some other hysteria that has swept their profession at that particular moment.

There have been enough instances of SS being carried away with their own hysteria and destroying families, for me (and most other people I suspect) to feel that there is no way I'm going to let them anywhere near my family if I can help it. So sometimes, I might make a decision which is partly influenced by that factor. I'm not sure, it's difficult to tell how much of our caution is influenced by fear of the state. And how much of the fear of the state is an excuse not to let go and give our children independence - it is so much easier to keep them with us and not have that nagging fear that giving them independence entails.

All of us know that we'd be lambasted if something happened to our children while they're unsupervised, but very few of us fear that if we parent badly by not giving our children the independence they need to develop properly, the state will get involved. No-one's going to ring Social Services to tell them that I'm a smothering, over-protective mother who won't let her DS have the responsibility and independence he craves!

redadmiral · 02/01/2008 10:49

LittleBellas

You might get lambasted on MN for not doing it...

whichwitch · 02/01/2008 11:16

I am one who wouldn't leave my DS - he is 8 and recently in the town library he was sitting reading while I was about 6 foot away (visible) at the shelves - he was approached by a man and a hand written note thrust into his hand - he says nothing more happened and came immediately to me with it - it was a religious note - I handed it to the staff - as I felt this was not good behaviour - so I would not leave him not because I don't trust him (as I do) but because of silliness like this.