Would you leave your 8 year old DS in the library reading while you went to the shop?

[LittleSleighBellasRinging]

This was the dilemma which faced me yesterday. I needed to go and get some milk because we were running out, he really didn't want to come and suggested that I leave him in the library reading. He insisted he wouldn't talk to any strangers, he wouldn't go off with anyone, and he wouldn't leave the building unless it was a fire alarm and he stayed with the library workers.

I considered it very very seriously and nearly let him, but in the end I was too scared. Was I wrong? I think I probably was, I think at 8 years old he is old enough to be left in that kind of environment, but I just couldn't bring myself to cut the apron strings. I would have been about twenty minutes to half an hour.

So. Am I a responsible parent or a suffocating neurotic risk-averse idiot? When and how should I allow him to do this? What do you think?

Bella, I would consider myself responsible for a child under secondary age in that situation though. I would be torn between wanting to be helpful, being concerned for his wellbeing (ie if he wandered out of my line of vision while I was dealing with the usual queue of people), and cross at being landed with him (especially if the parent didn't mention it before leaving).
Hypothetically, because I know the risk is extremely low, what would you expect of the staff if, god forbid, your son was verbally abused, threatened or even flashed at by another library user? These things do happen sometimes in urban libraries, that's why a lot of them have security guards now.
You know your branch and the staff there best. I can think of lots of situations where I expect this sort of thing happens all the time to the convenience and ease of all concerned.
But I also know of other libraries where aggravating users are plentiful and overworked staff would be really pissed off if this happened, tbh.

My oldest is only 4 at the moment, but I suspect that by 8 I'd leave him in the children's section of a library for 20 minutes. Would library staff really be horrified by an 8-year-old quietly reading on their own for 20 minutes?? I mean it's good to know the staff are there so that if he does have a question or needs help then he can ask. They don't need to babysit a kid who is only doing what the children's section of a library is there for: reading (or looking up cool stuff on the internet!).

Not horrified, no. Bothered by having a child considered too young to make its own way to the library, left with them, yes.
Cases like Frogs' dd1, coming in on their own and comfortable with doing their own thing, great.

My parents used to leave my brother and I for hours in the local (small town) library when we were 9 and 7. This was in Australia in the early eighties. Anything was better than being dragged around endless carpet shops. We loved it, and I never remember feeling worried or having any problems, although I do remember being kicked out of the library when it closed and having to wait on the pavement for ages until they turned up, and being seriously fed up with them - but not worried. And although it won't sound like it, my parents are seriously paranoid people - absolutely not risk takers.

But would I do it with my DS (9)? Well, yes, probably. We live in a very small town, he's familiar with the library and the high street, he's very reliable, and he knows how to ask for help if he needs it. Also, our library full of grannies, not dodgy characters. I have let him play squash with a friend at the local leisure centre, usually but not always with friend's mum in the building. I would not expect the library staff to be responsible.

In case it doesn't sound it, I am quite an anxious person about safety. But I want him to learn how to deal with doing things on his own. I have been letting him walk back from school once a week (no busy roads, lots of other people around) and he loves the independence.

I think that at our library there is a stated minimum age for children being left unattended, and that age is eight. I would be happy to leave my eight year old there, if he was happy to stay there unattended. So long as they know not to leave the place, and genuinely want to stay there what's the harm?

I wouldn't expect the staff to take on a upervising role -- over and above the role they have in relation to all library users.

I'm not sure - I'd probably begin by building up the time when he's not under your direct supervision. Maybe he can choose his books whilst yu sit in the adult library for 10 minutes or so? and build it up from there?

I'm guessing he doesn't take himself to school yet either so maybe if you try leaving him a bit further from the school gates (but still within your vision) so he can build up confidence and coping strategies. Provided that this fits in with the school policies on collecting children, of course. You could also meet him in the same place in the evening. You might also want to get him to do little errands like posting letters if a postbox is near your house so he knows he can cope if he needs to use a street on his own.

I took myself to the library from about 12-13 onwards but it was mainly at weekends, in daylight, I don't recall being specifically left in the library alone at 8 or 9 though.

brill idea, I hadn't thought about early steps to independence like libraries before, I'd far rather ds1 did that than roam the streets like most 8 year olds seem to do here. if mine was on the computers he would not even notice flashers [flippant] It's so hard to think about letting go, ds1 is only 5 but I'm already starting to worry

Hmmm. I'm not absolutely sure. I suspect that when DD1 is eight I may well do this, but it's over a year away. I would like to think I would.

I have to say I feel that our visits to the library over the years have constituted a valuable lesson in the importance of contraception to other library users. The incidents when DD1 would escape her pull-up nappy and run free and pantless among the shelves still make my own blood run cold.

If my 8 year old was flashed at, he would know to report it to the staff (because I wouldn't leave him unless he did know stuff like that) and all I would expect the staff to do would be to ring the police. I would expect them to do the same for me, and I am 27. It is an awful thing to happen to a child, but is distressing at ANY age. I was flashed at 15. I was very distressed. Doesn't mean I shouldn't have been allowed out on my own - it was the flasher's fault, not my mother's, my father's, passing adult's, and not mine.

MI you are always so funny. I have a virtual crush on your wit.

FWIW, in my library there are no public toilets - toddlers are allowed to use the staff toilets - but everyone else has to cross their legs or go before they get there! That would be my main worry in case my dd needed the toilet and was unable to go. I don't tend to leave her at parties on her own for similar reasons but she is only 7.

only read the op and skimmed a few other posts but my local library has a policy of no children under 8 to be left also.as it is only 2mins from our house i let my ds1 go there for short spells from age 8.now he is almost 10 and goes there for hours at a time.dd1(9)goes with him sometimes as well.but -this is a fairly small town,they know who the weirdos and druggies are and they are both on first name terms with all the librarians.

if i still lived in london i dont think i would have let them go to the library alone untill at least senior school age.

"I suppose that he might be scared of being by himself, that a peadophile might come along and abduct him, that a fire suddenly breaks out and they have to evacuate the building and he gets run over as they all troop out, that lightning strikes the building and kills him, that the library staff see him alone and call social services and they whisk him off into care, that the sky falls on his head..."

well I know you are being self-deprecating but there are a few real fears there aren't there. It doesn't sound like he WOULD be scared on his own - but you could try leaving him for 10 mins, or even 5, at first to see. You could also make a plan together: 'what could you do if you felt scared? You could go to sit near the library desk and tell the staff, if they ask, that you are waiting for your mum who will be back soon." or whatever.

The paedophile thing - it's unlikely they would be able to abduct him in a public place unless he went willingly with them. So talk about safety with strangers - don't go anywhere with a stranger even if they say your mother has sent them, etc. If a stranger is talking to you and you are not sure what to do, tell one of the library staff. and so on.

I won't go on, but you can see that you can both find strategies for dealing with these situations and that he will probably need to deal with similar situations one day even if you don't leave him in the library now. I am not suggesting all children have to deal with a potential abductor, but most people do at some point come across a worrying oddball or potentially dangerous person in their life. The same skills apply in childhood as in adulthood, and a child can begin to learn them now. Feeling scared or out of one's depth is also a useful skill to learn to deal with, and not restricted to children's experience by any means.

If your ds did not want to be left alone in the library, I wouldn't suggest for a second that you do so, but the fact that he thought of it himself shows to me that he may well be ready for this.

Marina, I was wondering about parents informing staff. But would that possibly make matters worse (suggest that I expected the staff to keep an eye on my child?) I wouldn't expect supervision, but I would expect staff of a children's library to help out a child if he came and asked for help (if someone was bothering him, etc).

I would've

cocobear-i know the staff in my local library wouldn't mind helping if a child was worried or anything.its when they get groups of kids who have gone in there just to be a PITA and whos parents most likely haven't a clue/dont give a toss where their children are that they get annoyed.

DBSS - yes, see that point! I suppose it's best if libraries just have a posted policy. If my library said no under-10s or something, then I'd just live to the rule.

Like Janni, I used to love being left alone in our big urban library from about 7. It was a great place, and I've always loved libraries ever since. (I can remember waiting on the pavement outside to be picked up, too.)

I would do this. I don't actually, because ds2 actually likes shopping more than I do, so he's an inspiration to me out shopping!

I would also be happy for ds1 (10) to go to the library on his own, except that he has an appalling sense of direction. When we are out and about together I test him out by asking him which way we need to go, and he has no clue whatsoever. (These are places in our small town that we are very familiar with, and we walk everywhere a lot! He just lives in a dreamworld.)

So ds1's unaccompanied forays have to wait until his best friend is allowed some freedom (not likely in the near future), or until I trust ds1 & ds2 to go out together and not get up to mischief (unlikely!)

When my son was 8, he walked from school to the library and waited in there for half an hour till I got home from work. Now, he's 11 and he walks along there, stays for as long as he needs to, and comes home. We live in a busy town on the outskirts of Glasgow - not some bucolic idyll.

I feel a bit sad reading this thread that so many of you wouldn't leave an 8 year old alone. I think it really builds their confidence to do things without a parent. At what age will you start to let your children do things on their own? Think back to when we were small - we had much more freedom, and the only danger that has increased since then is that of increased traffic. We are in danger of bringing up a generation of cotton-wool kids because of our fear of danger, rather than any actual danger.

My ds is 8 and I wouldn't leave him on his own as I don't think he's sensible enough yet. I went out a few days ago to move my car so a neighbour could get his car in. I told him to stay in the house with ds2 (who's 4). He could see the cars from the window but he still came to the front door looking worried before I'd even switched on the ignition. His brother didn't even look up from his gameboy. So I wouldn't leave ds1 in a library on his own however I think I could go out for the day and leave ds2 in front of a screen and he wouldn't even notice - till he got hungry, even then he'd find some chocolate somewhere
It definitely depends on the child.

You were right. It's a close thing at this age imo.

Oh, MrsMuddle you've given me a great solution to next year's after-school care when my eldest starts secondary school.

(Marina, can you put your capital M back, please, it's disconcerting me to see you as marina )