8 year old son has said he wants to live with his dad and new family…

[VikSoph]

My ex and I split up when our son was only a year old and he has lived with me full time ever since then.

When my son was younger, his dad was very absent and inconsistent. He had a string of girlfriends, one after another and didn’t really take his role as a father seriously until our son was about 4.

In the last year, he has got a new partner who also has a child from a previous relationship. She seems nice enough and I can see my son looks forward to seeing his dad and his new little stepsister every other weekend.

Very shortly after meeting, they moved in and have now had a new baby and my son is absolutely smitten with his new little brother.

However. My ex and I recently had an argument about childcare costs. We had this fight on Thursday, the day before my son was due to go to his dad’s.

His dad texted me yesterday morning to warn me that when he drops our son off “they would like to talk to me about something”.

When he returned home, he dropped the bombshell on me that he would like to go live with his dad now. He was in tears when he was telling me and when I asked him why he was upset, he said he didn’t want to hurt my feelings.

I told him it was something we would think about and we’d talk about it tomorrow.

I really don’t know what to do or what the right decision is.

My ex has only ever had our son once a fortnight. He used to live ~20 miles away and when he met his new girlfriend, he moved in with her… another 20 miles away so he now lives 40 miles away (a 2.5 hour drive).

His dad has never once been to a single parent-teacher conference, doctor's/dentist appointment or school play.
I have often asked him if he’d be able to have him an extra night here or there, and the answer is always a resounding no. He has never once had our son for a week here or there in the half terms and has never even taken him on holiday.

I understand that they have this whole lovely family unit going on and the notion of growing up with his baby brother is a really attractive one. But I can’t work out if it’s in his best interests?

Am I wrong or just being selfish by wanting to put my foot down and say no?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

[quote GrandmasCat]@dervel you are a good parent who has been involved from the beginning, this dad has been flaky and not in contact for half of the child life and with very little contact afterwards so it is no difficult to assume that going from little contact to living there full time is a big leap neither the kid or the dad are calculating well.[/quote]
This

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

That sounds like my optimistic old sat nav, doesn’t account for any country lanes or city traffic.

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

I bet he thinks that the pittance he currently pays OP is more than the actual extra cost of having his son live with him

@Dervel

I’ve been through something similar but I’m the father in the equation. My son (also an 8 year old), came to me unprompted wanting to change the contact pattern. Which would have landed us at 50/50. He wanted me to bring it up to his mother as he had tried and says she never listens to him. I wouldn’t just naturally assume this was all at the behest of the father.

Whilst I would of course be over the moon to spend more time with my son, she did of course shoot the idea down entirely. It broke his little heart too, but I did say to him when he is a little older he’ll be able to choose for himself, and he would always have a home with me.

Also the implication this is all about money is saddening. I’ve been involved in my son’s care right from when he was a baby, and as his time with me has increased over the years I have never once asked for a reduction in child maintenance as honestly I’d prefer a co-parenting relationship that was as cordial as possible. However unfortunately I have been unable to achieve this.

I empathise with your viewpoint and I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a co-parenting relationship that's as cordial as possible.

However, despite the fact your ex didn't hear you out, I feel you handled the situation correctly. You spoke to her directly instead of using your son as a messenger because at the end of the day, this is a conversation that needs to be had between the parents.

I'm also not sure we're comparing apples with apples here. From the sounds of it, you're the kind of father any child would be lucky to have and my feelings of apprehension might not exist if my ex was the same. Unfortunately, that's not the case in my situation.
I'm so sorry that it must come across like we're tarring all men with the same brush, but on the other hand, after 8 years of experiencing certain behaviours and patterns, it is very difficult to believe his intentions are pure.

I agree completely with pp saying follow up every phone call with an email summary. It takes a few minutes but it is so worth it. Avoid phone calls as much as possible and use emails instead whenever you can.
I used to work in clinical research and accurate reporting was very important. Every single phone call was followed up with a detailed email which was placed on file and archived. I learned to do it immediately while everything was fresh in my mind.

@Dervel The timing does make it seem like the money in OP's case.

You sound like a great Dad btw. It's great that your son can have the 50/50 that he wants. My ex had my kids once a fortnight and over the years it's affected their relationship negatively.

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

Nice point! Balancing kids of such different ages is tricky so that would add to the issues.

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

I wonder if the gf knows that she's providing full time childcare and doing the school run for free?

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

This.

All the children I know - and I am related to one - who chose to change which parent they lived with were secondary age and were able to get themselves to and from school.

Most importantly there were able to look after themselves to a good degree and that included being about to speak out to other adults.

Your son is mostly likely looking at this through rose tinted glasses. Which is understandable. Dad's house is fun, because it's at the weekend!
I think the offering for extra weekends/ weeks on holiday is your best option.
Even whilst it wouldn't be the most ideal, possibly one night mid week? You or ex could collect him from school and he could bring him back the next day. Not ideal I know, 40 miles each way would be well over 2 hrs round trip for me too!

Im sorry your going through this OP. I agree with others he should build up a period of spending more time with him first. He may just feel like every other weekend isnt enough for him away from his step siblings so feels like he wants to move full time. I would suggest when the option is available on holidays he stays for the week or something i think 50/50 may be too difficult with school for now. Thats another thing to discuss does ur son realise he would have to likely move schools lose friends if he is 2.5 hrs away? I think at 8 kids can be over run with emotions and not fully understand them perhaps just try more time with dad first but dont be seen as the blocking parent just saying outright no or your son may become upset and angry at you and feel like you are stopping him seeing his dad more (ik u are not but in the eyes of a child they can think different).

Poor little guy, and poor you, OP. I agree with saying firmly, this is your home, and maybe trying additional time at the dad's home during holidays or something.

I agree that this is probably a shock to the dad's partner. Also, with the best will in the world, a baby is not really much fun for an eight year old, iykwim - if that is part of what is being dangled as the attraction.

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

Absolutely!

Genuinely, if you had written this was a Father who had achieved the status quo of 50/50 after you had split up and had resoundingly been there in every aspect of your son's life I would say let your son go as it's clear he's made his decision based on all of these factors.
However, this is clearly NOT the case and you have already assessed that it is likely this is not in his best interests. Your son needs you in his life as you have been his stability since day one.
You are not being selfish by putting your foot down, you are making a decision in the best interests of your son by having both of his parents in his life in equal measure.
The idea of living with his new family is attractive and there will be a definite honeymoon period, but once that wears off I guarantee they will find it extremely challenging and your son may feel he's playing third wheel.
I would absolutely put your foot down and explore 50/50.
Don't let him live there full-time, he needs you too.

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

And also ALL OF THIS!

Hell no!
That would be my reply, but then I am selfish enough not to want my child taken away by someone who has not raised him, was not much around when he was little, does not really spend much time with him or take responsibilities like doctors, school and so on.
And... this man should have talked to you asking for more time with his son before saying "we have something to tell you..."
This does not sound any good to me, at all.
I would not even think for a millisecond to let my lo to go and live with this people. If they want more time with him, pick from school, take to activities, yeah, fair enough.

@VikSoph I agree with the advice to email your scummy ex and get in contact with your solicitor.

1. It was not in your son’s best interests to make him discuss living arrangements without talking to you first. He was very upset and unsettled by this. You are absolutely not prepared to have any sort of discussion in front of DS.

1. It is not in your son’s best interests to suddenly uproot him from his home, school, family and friends. He needs his father to provide stability and regular contact to be built up from eow to half of school holidays etc. You are happy to increase contact gradually and a good start would be if ex can have DS during the next half term.

1. Please keep all communication about this by email or text message so that you can both remember what is discussed and agreed. (Stops him lying and creates evidence for a possible court case!)

Any attempt to ignore your request needs to be shut down with ‘I’m not discussing this now’

@GoodPrincessWenceslas

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when ex's girlfriend hears about this. Because you can bet that he envisages that she will take total responsibility for school runs, homework supervision, buying the new uniform, all washing, feeding and other care, to say nothing of being the one to look after your son if he's ill or schools close again. I do hope she's on MN - can't wait for her AIBU.

I hope she also looks at this from her DD's perspective, who will have in short succession a new DSF, new baby sibling and then a step-brother potentially moving in, and knocks the idea into the rough grass.

I'd be concerned that OP's DS has had, or will be soon having, another tearful conversation where he is told to tell the SM how much he wants to move in…

I just wanted to say how glad I am that you are listening to good counsel and not making an 8-year-old take responsibility for such a momentous decision.

Your ex is BANG out of order for not discussing this with you and just landing it on your son and having him deal with that responsibility.

I don't think that the boy should live with dad full time but if he did move, I could imagine a scenario where he's dropped off back at OP's within days. That rejection would be awful for the boy and he'd be stuck with no school etc as he was enrolled at a school near Dad's.

He's a fool for thinking he can go from 2 days to 12 days a fortnight

Your ex is a rude arse and is clearly doing this for control and or/financial gain. His manipulation of his son is disgusting.

Totally agree with advice from @CaptainMorgansMistress.

Good luck 💐

@Dervel

I’ve been through something similar but I’m the father in the equation. My son (also an 8 year old), came to me unprompted wanting to change the contact pattern. Which would have landed us at 50/50. He wanted me to bring it up to his mother as he had tried and says she never listens to him. I wouldn’t just naturally assume this was all at the behest of the father.

Whilst I would of course be over the moon to spend more time with my son, she did of course shoot the idea down entirely. It broke his little heart too, but I did say to him when he is a little older he’ll be able to choose for himself, and he would always have a home with me.

Also the implication this is all about money is saddening. I’ve been involved in my son’s care right from when he was a baby, and as his time with me has increased over the years I have never once asked for a reduction in child maintenance as honestly I’d prefer a co-parenting relationship that was as cordial as possible. However unfortunately I have been unable to achieve this.

The implication that it’s about money is because he argued with her about money the day before this conversation. It is sad but unfortunately it’s a natural conclusion that this is what’s behind all this.

Hi everyone,

this is my first time using this platform. I hope I get some answers because I am so confused..

i have a 5, almost 6 year old son. Since his birth his father and I have been in a pretty nasty custody battle. My child’s father is 7 years older and when my son was born he had accessibility to a lawyer and I did not. He ended up getting temporary custody of our son when he was 4 months old after he kicked me out and I moved back home to a different state with our child. During our agreed exchange he filed paperwork under false accusations of me abandoning our son because I left the state. The agreement was 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. When I find out I went to court and regained custody after text messages proved that was never the case and we had an arrangement.

He ended up taking our son 3 more times for 3-5+ months each time. The problem was that I allowed joint legal/physical custody when he was born because we were together. When you do this a parent can take a child and not be under criminal investigation because it is then considered a legal matter. Please, never allow joint legal/physical unless you’re married.

Each time I would go to court with texts that prove against his claims. Our judge was a known misogynist who favored men over women; he even had a petition for removal that received over 3k signatures. Needless to say my child’s father was never penalized for taking him, he was only asked to return my son.

It happened again during an agreed transfer. I drove with my mother over 6 hours to get my son and was asked to arrive at some festival he was djing at. My son was with his father since April of this year at this point. I had him consistently since 2020. His father moved away from his home state to Florida with his new family and couldn’t do the agreed arrangement. I was fine with that. No court involved. Just texts. I had him for 2 years so I was okay with April until the school year.

A few weeks leading up to my son coming home I started feeling signs that “it” was happening again. Mothers intuition, possibly, but he’s taken our son so many times that I’ve started to recognize the signs. Things were getting familiar. I’d call and have to wait days to hear back. I asked him since day 1 (April) to help me get his birth certificate so we could put him in school, as agreed, in Chicago. Nothing. My son was getting more and more distant on the phone. Signs of him in his ear? Not sure. And that gut wrenching feeling that something just wasn’t right.

I’ll add here that my child’s father is a dj and has several other kids who he takes care of. 1 other biological and 3 step kids/fiancé. He has a huge family and travels often. My son genuinely enjoys being there. He doesn’t have much money though and esthetically his home is quite disgusting. He lives in the worst part of Detroit MI but recently moved to Florida with his fiancé. He now stays in Florida throughout the year but spends time in Detroit to make money as a dj. Without his summer gig he has no job. My son still loves it there. He even asked to stay.

I know someone must say “oh but he’s 5”. That’s true but not your typical 5 year old. He’s highly intellectual and very in tune with his emotions. His ability to verbalize how he feels is beyond me. He is beyond his years and I try to give him his own platform to express his feelings + respect his decisions. This one hurts though. To live with his dad? After all I’ve been through to get him here?

Anyway I live in one of the best parts of Chicago. I take home 70k a year. He’s soon to enroll in one of the best elementary schools in the city (waiting on his Bc to arrive in the mail). I don’t have anyone here though. There’s no siblings, no cousins, no one to play with. He’ll be in school the first time but it’s just him and me. No traveling the country. It’s the amount of people in his life that he enjoys the most while at his dads. With me he feels like it’s just me and him. He always asks where’s his brother or his step dad. It’s sad because there’s no one else and probably never will be. That’s why he prefers his dad. There’s just more people to love him and more people for him to love. I guess he wants more at my home than just the two of us.

So when I arrive to Detroit and approach him he grins and says “hi” but honestly he didn’t look happy to leave. He was in the middle of some party and asked to say bye to his dad. I nodded and he went. His dad approached myself and my mom, looked at me and asked where I was taking him. I was dumbfounded because he knew we were coming and where else but Chicago? I said that and he said he wanted to bring him to Florida. I said no fuck you and he told our son to go back towards his uncles. My son began to walk and I picked him up and started to walk away. He began to pry my son out of my hands. My child’s father is a boxer and he is really strong. I tried to run and he put another hand on my bag and threw it to the ground. When I picked up my phone to call the police he grabbed it and put it in his pocket. I tried to grab my son and oh the fight began. Right there in front of all of my child’s fathers friends and family. My mom tried to grab them off of me and I tried to run to the car but he tried to stop us. He kept hitting me and refusing to let me in my own mothers car. My mom was frazzled and didn’t know what to do. I was being attacked with my son in my hands. He kept saying that he’s not letting him leave when he HAS to. Long story short I ended up arrested. Me. I couldn’t call the police, my mom didn’t record because she was trying to stop it. It was their word against mine and I went to jail for domestic violence and he took my son. All while my son was grabbing for his dad.

This was honestly the most heart breaking thing that I’ve experienced. I’m so angry. He has no legal right to keep my child from me and yet again here I am having to go to court to see my own son. I’m a great mom. An amazing mother. I’ve missed out on so many moments because he’s stolen them by keeping my child from me. Sometimes I feel like giving up. It’s a constant battle and I never know when it’ll happen again.

Im finally in a position where I can afford a lawyer and I’ll be hiring one as soon as possible but it’s just all so much. I’ve never tried to keep my son from my child’s father and a lot of this is because he doesn’t want to pay child support. He feels like if he has to pay child support he should just have him full time.. I keep explaining that it just doesn’t work that way. Anyway.. if you’ve read this far god bless you.. I’d love to hear some thoughts on this. What should I do?