8 year old son has said he wants to live with his dad and new family…

[VikSoph]

My ex and I split up when our son was only a year old and he has lived with me full time ever since then.

When my son was younger, his dad was very absent and inconsistent. He had a string of girlfriends, one after another and didn’t really take his role as a father seriously until our son was about 4.

In the last year, he has got a new partner who also has a child from a previous relationship. She seems nice enough and I can see my son looks forward to seeing his dad and his new little stepsister every other weekend.

Very shortly after meeting, they moved in and have now had a new baby and my son is absolutely smitten with his new little brother.

However. My ex and I recently had an argument about childcare costs. We had this fight on Thursday, the day before my son was due to go to his dad’s.

His dad texted me yesterday morning to warn me that when he drops our son off “they would like to talk to me about something”.

When he returned home, he dropped the bombshell on me that he would like to go live with his dad now. He was in tears when he was telling me and when I asked him why he was upset, he said he didn’t want to hurt my feelings.

I told him it was something we would think about and we’d talk about it tomorrow.

I really don’t know what to do or what the right decision is.

My ex has only ever had our son once a fortnight. He used to live ~20 miles away and when he met his new girlfriend, he moved in with her… another 20 miles away so he now lives 40 miles away (a 2.5 hour drive).

His dad has never once been to a single parent-teacher conference, doctor's/dentist appointment or school play.
I have often asked him if he’d be able to have him an extra night here or there, and the answer is always a resounding no. He has never once had our son for a week here or there in the half terms and has never even taken him on holiday.

I understand that they have this whole lovely family unit going on and the notion of growing up with his baby brother is a really attractive one. But I can’t work out if it’s in his best interests?

Am I wrong or just being selfish by wanting to put my foot down and say no?

I'd say no, Op - for all the reasons you've stated (& especially considering he chose to put his new partner before his son by moving further away).

Be honest (to a degree) with your son that he's too young to make the decision, you're the adult who has considered everything (school, clubs, friendships etc) and it's not the right thing for him to move but you'll happily support more visits during the school holidays.

Then I'd rip into your ex for putting that amount of pressure on your son (highlighting his past flakiness and how it's conveniently come after a discussion on finances) and ask him not to do anything like that again as it's emotionally abusive and potentially damaging to your son. You're happy to facilitate more time in school holidays (as you've offered in the past and he had declined) but that's it. I'd also put it in writing so that you have evidence for future in case it ends up going to court.

Good luck Op as he sounds like a shitty man to manipulate a little kid in this way, especially right before Christmas!

@ForestLake

I wouldn't agree to that. Your ex has a new family, and now he wants to take your son away. What will you have left?

An 8 year old is not old enough to decide. So I would just tell them no.

I agree he shouldn't go there permanently, but it's not about what's best for the OP, it's about what's best for the child.

I would echo what CaptainMorgansMistress says - you need to take the responsibility from your son and make it clear that his home is with you, and that's not going to change. He may be disappointed that he can't live in the fun family with his Dad and little brother, but the reality of living with a not very interested father and a stepmother would never match up to his fantasy.
You are the parent who puts your son's needs first - his father has never done that - so you should be the parent he resides with.

Email so it's all documented. Note DS was very upset to talk about it. Reiterate that you have been suggesting for sometime that he spend more time with his dad and you are more than willing to facilitate this. Given the major change to his life, changing schools, leaving his friends and activities, you don't support him living with dad full time as you don't think he has the maturity to understand the extent of the change. You fully support moving to 50/50 care and would love to discuss how this may be facilitated eg longer stays in school holidays (figure out what works for you at give multiple options).

In future, these discussions should happen between parents and DS not be put in the position of having to choose between two people he loves. You are sure your ex agrees that it is too much pressure for a child and places them in an impossible position. You could see how upset he was.

Then do it all through email. Even if you talk in person / on the phone, follow up email - as we discussed today.....

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

Most people do not live on a motorway.

Even if you live next to a motorway that assumes no heavy traffic, no accidents, no adverse weather.

OP

Talk to your ex, and his new partner, suggest your ds gradually increasing time with them.

But I agree your child is too young to decide this, he probably doesn't realise he would have to change school, not see you any time he wants etc etc.

I too think this is coming about because of the financial discussion you had. The impact on both you and your son would be horrendous, can’t imagine how much you would miss him my goodness! And he would so miss you too, he needs his mum he’s only 8. I think if this happened his dad would only be doing it for financial purposes and my fear would be that your son would be emotionally neglected. At the end of the day his step mother has two children of her own, they are always going to be her priority as lovely as she might be.

Could you get his wife on your side? Find out How would she feel about losing one of her children to another woman?

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

Really?? No need for this level of detail!

We had exactly the same with my ex. Child coming home upset saying he wanted to spend more time at his dad… until he told me that dad said that if I didn’t agree to 50/50 that he would go and live with him and he wouldn’t be allowed to see me.

It turned out it was all about the money. Be careful with this, with 50/50 he doesn’t pay maintenance but a single accidental extra day a year over the 50% may make him the resident parent and prevent you from getting CB or UC if you are getting them and depend on them to house your child.

The way I shut this down was to apply for a residence order myself to put on paper the arranged contact we already had. The judge put the interests of DS first, saw that what my ex was proposing was not workable given distance/work commitments and the residence order was put in place with additional conditions for holidays and Christmas based on the age of DS.

But playing the devils advocate, he is not expected by law to contribute a penny more than what he is supposed to pay in CM, even if the money is needed for nursery fees or other essentials. I would go as far as saying that if he wants to be mean and tight he has it very easy. My ex’s financial contribution to DS’s upbringing, after maintenance, was limited to feed him when he visited and send a present in some Christmas/birthdays.

@MadamBuxton

If your ex was a good dad who wanted more time with your son, he would have talked to you about it first and not put your son in the upsetting position you describe. This coming immediately after your argument about money doesn’t seem like a coincidence either. If your ex was to split from his new partner it’s fairly obvious he’d be less keen on your son living with him. The fact that you’re even considering your ex’s request in case it’s the right thing for your son shows what a good parent you are

This

Stability is key.

Get legal advice.

Bet he’s finding collections and drop offs too much hassle with a new baby in the house and also wants to save money on CM now he has the expense of a new family.

He isn’t motivated by your sons best interests; as others have said, say no and document everything.

My sister went through something similar but my nephew was older -father had had minimal contact since he left but used to throw money at him when he saw him which impressed my nephew-all of a sudden he want to live with him and says hes unhappy at home-yes there had abeen a lockdown which was hard on anyone but the ex was just a maniuplative twunt who convinced hm his life would be better-of course wasnt interested untill he got a new partner

caused alot of upset nephew hardly talks to my sister now because she tried to convince him not to leave and just visit more maybe 50/50-ex made her look liike the bad guy but very clever with it-she couldnt prove anything and mediation didnt help he just maniuplated them -so ended up living with him

i would say just be careful and go through email when you contact his father always have it written down and get some legal advice-your son is younger so they wouldnt automatically advise you to agree but if he pushes it though court could get 50/50

Tbh I think the timing is very suspicious, given it's never come up before AND following an argument over childcare costs.

My guess would be your ex has a partner at home on maternity leave who he's planning on using for childcare instead, which isn't fair on her or your son. And also presumably isn't a permanent arrangement anyway.

I'd imagine at 8 your son is thinking his life will stay the same except from getting to live with his new baby sibling, he won't be realising he'd need to move schools and everything.

I'm with everyone else, I'd say it's too much of a change from current contact to full-time, and focus on increasing time spent during the holidays if possible.

Also from your POV, how much contact would your ex be expecting you to have? Because that sort of travel time pretty much rules you out during the week, I wouldn't be happy to lose that much time with my child.

Also to add was annoyed at how much CM he had to pay i think that was the catlyst for his intention to get his son to live with him

Well the answer is no and stand firm with your eight year old son. You are his mother and primary care giver. Don’t give into the whims of your son or your ex.
In any case, the step mum has a young infant. Why would she want to care for your son on a full time basis? Don’t be silly. Put this out of your sons mind and out your own too. And stop asking them to help out extra of you know it’s not forthcoming.

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

Where do you live that you can drive at a consistent 60 mph?

I agree with the advice you've been given.

-8 is too young to make this decision.

-If he was to move house, a more natural goal might be when he moved up to secondary.

-If your son remembers his dad being flaky then living with him ensures that he can't disappear again.

• Your son won't realise that moving away means he has to give stuff up like school. No guarantee that the girlfriend will be taking him to after school activities etc

• Your son only knows his dad in weekend mode. He might get lots of gaming and McDonalds at dad's house but weekdays are going to be normal routine.

• It sounds like the gf would end up doing most of the parenting graft. She's a new mum so this is awful timing

I think the way forward is for your ex to have your son for longer periods. Start by suggesting 50% of school holidays and you can review the situation in 12 months. It sounds like he's unlikely to keep that up or that his gf and him will realise how much work it is to have an extra child under their roof. No judge would expect you to suddenly go from having him 12 days a fortnight to 2.

It is sad that he can't see his sibling every day. Does dad use technology like FaceTime to keep in touch with your son?

I’ve been through something similar but I’m the father in the equation. My son (also an 8 year old), came to me unprompted wanting to change the contact pattern. Which would have landed us at 50/50. He wanted me to bring it up to his mother as he had tried and says she never listens to him. I wouldn’t just naturally assume this was all at the behest of the father.

Whilst I would of course be over the moon to spend more time with my son, she did of course shoot the idea down entirely. It broke his little heart too, but I did say to him when he is a little older he’ll be able to choose for himself, and he would always have a home with me.

Also the implication this is all about money is saddening. I’ve been involved in my son’s care right from when he was a baby, and as his time with me has increased over the years I have never once asked for a reduction in child maintenance as honestly I’d prefer a co-parenting relationship that was as cordial as possible. However unfortunately I have been unable to achieve this.

Agree about not letting him decide who he lives with and who to please. You wouldn’t believe the relief of my son the day I took the phone of his hands when dad was pressing him to make me agree on something and told him “your son is not a messenger, and shouldn’t be involved in what is already a very acrimonious situation, if you want to change arrangements you talk to me, you don’t throw DS in the middle.” then I turned DS phone off and put it away for the foreseeable.

DS was first very scared that would land him into but I told him to blame me if he was told off for it. He seemed so incredibly grateful and happy, I’m sure he felt an enormous pressure on his little shoulders before then.

@MadamBuxton

If your ex was a good dad who wanted more time with your son, he would have talked to you about it first and not put your son in the upsetting position you describe. This coming immediately after your argument about money doesn’t seem like a coincidence either. If your ex was to split from his new partner it’s fairly obvious he’d be less keen on your son living with him. The fact that you’re even considering your ex’s request in case it’s the right thing for your son shows what a good parent you are

THIS! In spades.

I would suggest a compromise and increase contact (if it’s doable), at the age of 8 it is not his choice to make, obviously if it was taken to court they would consider his opinion but until he’s 12 (I think) he doesn’t get to decide where he lives. I would talk to a solicitor.

My dss wanted to live with us when he was 11/12, in the end his mother sent him to ours as a trial, we didn’t have room for him to have a bedroom (as we already had 2 dc and were living in a 2 bed house), so he slept on the sofa. He lasted 3 days before he decided he missed his mum and wanted to go home. He realised living with 2 small children and grumpy father wasn’t much fun at all.

@dervel you are a good parent who has been involved from the beginning, this dad has been flaky and not in contact for half of the child life and with very little contact afterwards so it is no difficult to assume that going from little contact to living there full time is a big leap neither the kid or the dad are calculating well.

@Dervel

I’ve been through something similar but I’m the father in the equation. My son (also an 8 year old), came to me unprompted wanting to change the contact pattern. Which would have landed us at 50/50. He wanted me to bring it up to his mother as he had tried and says she never listens to him. I wouldn’t just naturally assume this was all at the behest of the father.

Whilst I would of course be over the moon to spend more time with my son, she did of course shoot the idea down entirely. It broke his little heart too, but I did say to him when he is a little older he’ll be able to choose for himself, and he would always have a home with me.

Also the implication this is all about money is saddening. I’ve been involved in my son’s care right from when he was a baby, and as his time with me has increased over the years I have never once asked for a reduction in child maintenance as honestly I’d prefer a co-parenting relationship that was as cordial as possible. However unfortunately I have been unable to achieve this.

The difference here being I suspect you didn’t neglect your child for years and then gain a sudden interest only when newly partnered up and playing happy families? You sound like a responsible father. Unlike the father of Ops child. And perhaps your child’s mother has issues that make co-parenting difficult. The Op does not.

We know NAMALT. But this one most likely is.

I can see why he an ex.

Horrific behaviour.