8 year old son has said he wants to live with his dad and new family…

[VikSoph]

My ex and I split up when our son was only a year old and he has lived with me full time ever since then.

When my son was younger, his dad was very absent and inconsistent. He had a string of girlfriends, one after another and didn’t really take his role as a father seriously until our son was about 4.

In the last year, he has got a new partner who also has a child from a previous relationship. She seems nice enough and I can see my son looks forward to seeing his dad and his new little stepsister every other weekend.

Very shortly after meeting, they moved in and have now had a new baby and my son is absolutely smitten with his new little brother.

However. My ex and I recently had an argument about childcare costs. We had this fight on Thursday, the day before my son was due to go to his dad’s.

His dad texted me yesterday morning to warn me that when he drops our son off “they would like to talk to me about something”.

When he returned home, he dropped the bombshell on me that he would like to go live with his dad now. He was in tears when he was telling me and when I asked him why he was upset, he said he didn’t want to hurt my feelings.

I told him it was something we would think about and we’d talk about it tomorrow.

I really don’t know what to do or what the right decision is.

My ex has only ever had our son once a fortnight. He used to live ~20 miles away and when he met his new girlfriend, he moved in with her… another 20 miles away so he now lives 40 miles away (a 2.5 hour drive).

His dad has never once been to a single parent-teacher conference, doctor's/dentist appointment or school play.
I have often asked him if he’d be able to have him an extra night here or there, and the answer is always a resounding no. He has never once had our son for a week here or there in the half terms and has never even taken him on holiday.

I understand that they have this whole lovely family unit going on and the notion of growing up with his baby brother is a really attractive one. But I can’t work out if it’s in his best interests?

Am I wrong or just being selfish by wanting to put my foot down and say no?

To your son I'd tell him that it's not appropriate for him to move now due to school, friends etc etc but you'll talk to dad about more time during the holidays and look at it again when he goes to High school. Hopefully this will appease him for now and at 11 hell be a better age to make the decision, see if dad has remained constant in his life etc.

To his dad, I'd tell him absolutely not, but you agree to half of all school holidays, even give him the dates. Up to you if you do he has Feb half term you have May, one week each at Easter, split the summer how you see fit. You'll see if he steps up then, if he gets time off work or if he expects the gf to have them whilst on maternity leave - what happens if /when she goes back to work and if he really wants a change hell take you to court but that's unlikely, there's a huge backlog and the court are very unlikely to remove an 8yr old from the parent he spends more time with. I imagine those whole conversation will soon be a distant memory.

@itsgettingwierd

Your ds is 8yo.

This makes me very suspicious that he didn't completely make this decision alone or initiate the idea. Especially with the timing after an argument about finances.

Does your ds fully understand the impact of this decision? A move of schools, different house and only seeing you weekends and holidays? I find it hard to think at 8yo he can actually fully see the consequences of this decision and that far ahead.

I would tell him you'd fully support any decision he's made but would absolutely love him to live you you FT. Then ask him questions in a non emotional way like "do you know what your new school will be like?". That way you're pointing out the whole bigger picture of this decision.

I very much suspect he was crying as coerced and once he realises the whole impact he'll admit he wishes to stay with you.

This is my biggest fear. I love my son to pieces, but my word- to say the boy has the attention span of a goldfish, isn't giving goldfish the credit they deserve No different to other eight year olds I should imagine, but my point is- whilst this is comical for day-to-day life, it doesn't bode well for major life decisions.

I don't want to be rude or crass, but the impression I'm getting is that he's had this new, shiny baby dangled in front of him as bait. But because my son is a child, he hasn't got the ability to fully grasp everything else beyond that.

You've worded it perfectly "I find it hard to think at 8yo he can actually fully see the consequences of this decision and that far ahead."
And whilst we will have to have a conversation about this, I'm not sure there's anything I or anyone else can say that will help him see or understand these consequences. Because all being said and done, he is 8. He doesn't have the development or experience yet to see the bigger picture here.

He is young and everything will always seem perfect when going to the other parents for short periods as extra attention is given but full time would be a different story. Maybe meet in the middle and see if his dad can have him more. If the dad says no it would be pretty poor considering he would be willing to have him full time?

It would be a straight no from me. I would suggest starting with a week then 3 weeks in the summer. My mum always says come see me and come live with me are two totally different things.... After 3 weeks one of them are bound to change their mind.

Does you ds realise he will need to change schools etc?

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

What a ridiculous comment. How do you know the route allows for this speed?

For a start he’s too young to make that decision. It sounds like his f is unstable anyway, even if he had a new baby. If that fucks up, and he leaves, he’ll drop your son like a hot coal again, he doesn’t exactly have a good track record.
You’re going to have to be the bad guy here.
Is there a court order in place?

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

You do realise that you can’t always drive at 60mph?

I think it sounds more like your ex has pressed your son into saying this. Persuaded him. I'm afraid I'd just say no. He's never even been to your son's school for a parent teacher meeting! It's not in your son's best interest.

To me this sounds like manipulation of a child who can't understand the reality of situation and what it means. Even a court wouldn't grant this based on the history so offer an increase in contact and see how it goes.

Jesus christ the people arguing about roads and distances need to make their own thread!

@VikSoph your son is 8 and has clearly been manipulated. No court would find him competent to make this decision and his father should not have discussed this with him. Honestly I think you need to talk to a solicitor ASAP and have them send your ex a letter warning him not to do this again. If he wants to change access or residence arrangements he needs to go through the appropriate legal channels. As for DS I would just tell him something like "some decisions are too big for 8yos, daddy and I both love you and but your home is here with me."

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

I work 16 miles from home. It takes me at least 50 minutes to get to work in the morning despite most of the route being an A road. Even with no traffic it takes a minimum of 30 minutes. Not all roads are 60 mph. You are thinking of this as a GCSE maths problem not something with humans involved.

I have zero advice but sending you all the love, if my 8year old said he wanted to live with his dad my heart would be broken.
My background sounds very similar to yours - and my ex is always planting ideas in my sons head. Could you try mediation? I know it wouldn't work with my ex as it's his way or no way, but might be helpful to have a 'middle person'?

I'm wondering if there is a financial incentive aspect to this.

His dad is currently paying you child support. Is he in a rented house with his new partner and claiming HB? Perhaps they figure that they'd be better off financially by having one more child in the house. They might be able to use him to argue for an upgrade to a bigger house and more HB which they are not currently entitled to, plus they'll get his CB and child tax credits or whatever it is the resident parent gets these days, and he can stop what he pays you.

Sounds like he'll be quids in.

I think it’s probably money related, knowing how the minds of deadbeat dads work. Maybe he and his gf have worked out that they would be better off financially having him with them. But whatever the reason, he has proved in the past that he is capable of switching off his parental responsibilities when it suits him. If this relationship with gf breaks down, there’s no doubt whatsoever that your son would be passed back to you. I think a compromise could be that you have 50/50 childcare, but I certainly wouldn’t let an 8 year old decide what is best for him. His vision of his dad is blinkered.

You tell him that adults make those decisions.
You speak to ex and suggest a gradual increase in contact with the aim of 50/50 or near to it.
You support your son as his dad fails to maintain it.
You recognise that it's probably about transitioning between the 2.

@reallyworriedjobhunter

If the argument was about childcare costs, is he planning on his partner doing after school childcare and saving money and that is what this is actually about?

Your ex sounds vile. Expecting an 8 year old to broach this with his own mother and I agree with others that he sounds like he was pressured.

I would have a word with a solicitor about it all tbh.

This.

@LaurieFairyCake

Communicate everything in writing

Start with "I'm so glad you now want to spend more time with our son, obviously we don't want to disrupt his schooling and extra curricular activities so have him half the holidays and we will review next summer"

Bet he won't

This.

I’m currently going through court with a manipulative sod of an ex who likes to pull stunts like this with our children all the time. If he hasn’t been whispering in your sons ear, putting him through emotional turmoil just because he’s pissed off you dared to try and get him to act like a responsible parent then I’ll eat my hat.

He sounds like a thoroughly vile character, make sure you have evidence of his actions in writing ‘further to our conversation where you made DS say XYZ on our doorstep I have come to the conclusion etc’ that way of you have to get court or others involved there’s some evidence of his reprehensible actions.

Your poor DS I hope he’s not too upset still.

I’ve been an unsettled 8year old in the middle of a split and for me the best thing you could do would be to take all the responsibility away from your son immediately.
So say gently and lovingly to him - no darling, this is where you live, this is where your school, friends, hobbies etc are. Of course you can spend more time with daddy if you’d like to and im really happy to help organise that, but this is your home. Daddy and I agreed it was best for you like this a very long time ago. When you’re much much older we can talk about it again but this is and always will be your home.
I’d take anything about living with you or daddy out of the picture.
Then later, maybe during bathtime when he’s relaxed and chatty and feeling secure, you could say to him - you were a bit upset earlier on, I wonder if you’ve been worrying about upsetting me or daddy?… and figure out a bit more what’s gone on and reassure him that he has no responsibility to manage your or his fathers feelings.

Then write an icy cold email to your ex shutting this shit down immediately and log it with your solicitor.

Absolutely insist on a trial of much longer periods of time. Say that you can perhaps look at starting a new school in September and then let him spend as much time as possible there in the meantime. Enough to make sure he gets bored and loses all the extra attention that short periods give him. Let him see the realities of living with a family with young children, with a step mum that won’t have time to prioritise him, even if she actually wanted to. And with a dad that has refused extra contact in the past.

@CaptainMorgansMistress

I’ve been an unsettled 8year old in the middle of a split and for me the best thing you could do would be to take all the responsibility away from your son immediately. So say gently and lovingly to him - no darling, this is where you live, this is where your school, friends, hobbies etc are. Of course you can spend more time with daddy if you’d like to and im really happy to help organise that, but this is your home. Daddy and I agreed it was best for you like this a very long time ago. When you’re much much older we can talk about it again but this is and always will be your home. I’d take anything about living with you or daddy out of the picture. Then later, maybe during bathtime when he’s relaxed and chatty and feeling secure, you could say to him - you were a bit upset earlier on, I wonder if you’ve been worrying about upsetting me or daddy?… and figure out a bit more what’s gone on and reassure him that he has no responsibility to manage your or his fathers feelings.

Then write an icy cold email to your ex shutting this shit down immediately and log it with your solicitor.

Actually this seems eminently more sensible.

Takes the pressure off him.

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

FGS everyone is getting hung up on the distance, not the point! You have no idea, maybe OP can't go at 60mph. I used to live in a city where it took 1.5 hours to go 10 miles 😳😳

I would ask his Grandad/trusted friend to take him out to talk to him casually about what he really wants. It very much sounds as if his DF want to pay less. If this were true and the DF was driving it surely he would ask for more time with him and build it up from there.

If it is what he wants then it should build up to 50/50. It is probably all fun and games when it's not that often. I bet you that when his DF's new girlfriend finds out how hard it is (because it will fall to her probably) it will stop and you will have to pick up the pieces.

You know this is not a good idea.

Does your son want to move schools etc?

You need to agree to longer holiday visits. More weekends etc to see how that works.

@CaptainMorgansMistress - This is a brilliant approach and you can revisit it later then when your DS is older and can make up his mind.

@ShippingNews

Actually, since been on Google just to fact check and surprised myself in discovering it's actually 54 miles

Even 108 miles round trip would only take 1 hour and 48 minutes at 60mph.

How do you know which roads are being used? Chances are there will be a mix of roads types, including several that are 30mph and several which may be faster but reality is that traffic makes it further.

Few journeys only involve 60mph roads ime.