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How many generations back did it go wrong for Arthur

285 replies

iwanttobeonleave · 03/12/2021 19:51

The awful case of Arthur L-H has got me thinking about the long term causes of these situations. Clearly all three adults involved were completely despicable but why? What's caused this and where did it go wrong?

Can this level of disfunction happen in one generation or would there be a history of it if one looked back a few generations?

Just such a completely desperate case, the poor, poor child.

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MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 04/12/2021 00:47

@Ijsbear I mean that boy was killed with a couple of hours of leaving the hairdressers house, had she reported what she witnessed, given SS had already had reports of bruising on the child, it’s entirely possible his death could have been prevented that day. Can’t believe that needs explained.

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 04/12/2021 00:48

*within

Ijsbear · 04/12/2021 00:51

dustandfluf

You didn't actually read anything about the multiple reports did you? Have you ever actually seen extreme child abuse? Because I have, it's haunted me for 45 years, I've spend a lot of money trying to locate the abuser to report, and it doesnt fucking work . What's needed is a fundamental shift where people are really willing to put money into social services, and to make sure it goes to social care and not directed elsewhere and good quality people are recruited and supported, because dear god is it a desperately difficult job.

All these children die, and this kid was only one of the ones reported. A few of the ones who die hit the deadline but so many more just, just scrape through with so much damage they'll pass it on to their kids, and their kids' kids.

The government doesn't care and they are the only ones who can do something because they are the only ones who can help.

God bless that man who at least showed him some kindness. The system didn't, and when a child is in that extremis, the only thing you can hope for is that they remember that some people can show kindness.

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ScrollingLeaves · 04/12/2021 00:56

jb7445
“I don't know how much further back it went but my dad was in and out of foster care and thrown out onto the streets at 13.

Some families are totally fucked up. I'm so grateful my dad broke the chain of abuse but I don't know where the blame lies when it's so embedded in a family.“

JB do you know how he was able to do this? Alice Miller (psychologist who wrote about chains of abuse) thought there was likely to have been a sympathetic witness in the child’s life somewhere. Someone who listens and believes them. This can, she thought, stop the descent into drugs/alcohol/suicide or abuse and murder.

Ijsbear · 04/12/2021 00:57

[quote MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry]@Ijsbear I mean that boy was killed with a couple of hours of leaving the hairdressers house, had she reported what she witnessed, given SS had already had reports of bruising on the child, it’s entirely possible his death could have been prevented that day. Can’t believe that needs explained.[/quote]
I cant believe it needs explaining that these reports come in and nothing is done

When are you going to wake up?

sarah13xx · 04/12/2021 01:02

I have to say I’m sure there are so many hard-working individuals who want the best for every child they deal with in these organisations but the dealings I’ve had with social work haven’t been great at all 🤦🏼‍♀️ I’m a teacher and had concerns about a child on multiple occasions (really serious concerns) from things they told me and injuries they had. Every single time I flagged it up and every single time nothing was done. I’d break my heart going home knowing the child was going back there. One of the time I raised my concerns about a threat he told me he’d received at home with my head teacher for the HT to phone social work and be told could we just ask his mum about that. So the person we believe is abusing him is to be told that he has come into school saying these things, as if she’s just going to admit to harming him 🤔 My HT then went ahead and did this as asked and the following day he was so silent and wouldn’t speak to me, I dread to think what happened to him as a result of that ☹️ A random member of the public saw him and his mum out somewhere and reported what they witnessed to police. Again, social work were involved and yet again, nothing done.

On another occasion at another school a child lived with one of his parents and a step-parent. I regularly ran away from school because he was so scared of his step-dad (who regularly assaulted him) he didn’t want to go home. One of the times he was found he lay on the floor crying and shaking, not wanting to go back with him and he was promised he wouldn’t have to and could go back to the school. Just a week later he vanished from his house and a huge search operation was underway. I went to help, searching into the night and all I could think of was the fact if he was dead, social work could have so easily prevented it. He turned up the following day, hiding in the tiniest space in his own loft. He was again placed back with the parent but finally removed after the HT intervened. I think there must be a lot of red tape for these organisations too but it just takes so much it seems for them to even contemplate doing anything about it when there are multiple children that I know of right now living in violent homes, not being given the proper care. That’s exactly how these cases come about and I’m sure Arthur’s teacher is breaking his/her heart over this case because they no doubt raised concerns but didn’t get anywhere.

Sorry, nothing to do with your post really but just had to get it off my chest about the whole situation because you always see comments after these events like ‘you’d think the teacher etc would have noticed’.. they probably did!

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 04/12/2021 01:09

I cant believe it needs explaining that these reports come in and nothing is done

When are you going to wake up?

So you are saying that no one should bother reporting abuse? Do you realise how unbelievably irresponsible that is to say? Your posts are abhorrent.

Griefmonster · 04/12/2021 01:30

@liveforsummer

Just because a child had what is perceived to be a privileged upbringing and gone to a posh school, or has at least one decent parent doesn't mean they haven't suffered abuse and/or extreme trauma. That's worth remembering when people are shocked at the backgrounds of the parents. It could well have gone deeper but as a pp states, I'm not sure we will ever know
Agree with this.

I don't know of any adult with addiction issues and a series of abusive relationships who DOESN'T have childhood trauma. It doesn't need to have been their parents (although it could have been).

Young women don't go from perfectly functional and happy teenagers to drink/drugs and dysfunctional relationships unless there is some issue. Anyone who says different hasn't looked hard enough.

Ticksallboxes · 04/12/2021 01:30

@JustLyra oh my gosh. That's really put things in perspective for me.

I really hope you're in a better place now.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/12/2021 01:33

I don’t think she is saying that no one should bother reporting, MaryAnd.

She is just saying we have to wake up to the truth.

sarah13 has experienced the reality.

HoppingPavlova · 04/12/2021 01:34

I knew a girl who (seemingly) had a happy childhood, did well at school, never seemed troubled, went on to uni to do law. Mid-way through her law degree she met a guy (another law student) and they both descended into drugs big time. Became hard core heroin users, dropped out of uni, couch surfed, slept rough and at 21yo she was jailed for killing him.

Her family are lovely, siblings all happy, successful, well balanced people and all devastated at the situation. No idea what his family background is like apart from well off, don’t know about the dynamics.

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 04/12/2021 01:35

Really? It certainly reads that way.

what the fuck were they supposed to do? what, report them?

to what end?

do you really think that this kid, who was reported so many times, would have been saved by the hairdresser? One single more report?

PamDenick · 04/12/2021 01:39

Just to add: our schools are FULL of Arthurs and his sisters… but these ones WERE removed before the fateful blow… They are damaged and difficult and play up but they were removed… 500,000 of them.

mummyh2016 · 04/12/2021 01:40

One reason as to why the hairdresser may have decided not to report. Little Arthur passed away in June 2020, I'm 99% sure hairdressers were not allowed to work/reopen until July 2020. I presume a factor in her not reporting is because she was breaking current lockdown rules by working at the time and she didn't want to be investigated/fined.

PamDenick · 04/12/2021 01:46

Yes, lockdown isn’t a massive part of this case… Just as it was for the mother who smothered her disabled son… and the mother on a work call whose toddler wandered off to the hot tub… Lockdown has been a nightmare for safeguarding and there’s going to be more stories emerging, sadly…

RedWingBoots · 04/12/2021 01:48

@mummyh2016

One reason as to why the hairdresser may have decided not to report. Little Arthur passed away in June 2020, I'm 99% sure hairdressers were not allowed to work/reopen until July 2020. I presume a factor in her not reporting is because she was breaking current lockdown rules by working at the time and she didn't want to be investigated/fined.
You are right it was 4 July.

Also even if they had reported it SS would have done SFA yet again.

JustLyra · 04/12/2021 01:49

[quote Ticksallboxes]@JustLyra oh my gosh. That's really put things in perspective for me.

I really hope you're in a better place now. [/quote]
I have a good life now thankfully.

In some ways I was luckiest of my siblings as being the youngest I was only 7 when our GP’s took us. That is counterbalanced somewhat by the fact that there are no happy memories from my early childhood. My siblings (they are 10, 9 and 8 years older) have some happy memories from before the drugs really took hold. So “lucky” is a very loaded word.

I am the least damaged. I think a combination of my personality, my GP’s hard work and the fact I got very intense therapy when I was pregnant because I was terrified of repeating their behaviour.

I think in some ways you go one of two ways when you become a parent (though I know it’s massively, massively simplifying) - you either see your life as normal and repeat it, or you realise that the understanding you thought you’d get when you became a parent hadn’t happened. In fact you understand them less than ever and your determination to be different is strengthened.

My siblings are various degrees of fucked up by it. I don’t talk to any of them anymore.

It changes so quickly though. My mother’s parents were estranged from us from before I was born and when I finally spoke to my grandfather, just a few years ago, he was telling me about my mother getting an award in school when she was 14. She was bright, funny, chatty, helpful and kind by all accounts. By the time she was 19 she had two very young children and twice the children had been brought to my GP’s late at night by the police when her rows with my father had got so vicious the police had been called and them both arrested or taken to hospital. Both times it was shrugged off as a domestic and nothing noted or done.

I had at least 8 social workers talk to me that I can remember. There was no continuity then, and I suspect there is even less now because of the pressure they are under.

Lockdownbear · 04/12/2021 01:50

I could be wrong here but the violence in Arthur's mother's relationship was actually with the partner whom she killed, not Arthur's father.

They haven't said much about the mother and father's relationship but given the drink involved I don't think it's been a bed of roses.

I don't see how some can go from a normal loving partner and parent, to someone who tortured his son, who the fuck pressure points a small child, or encourages their partner to abuse and neglect him.

Bless you Arthur,
I pray that changes are made after this. We cannot have another child suffer like you xx

RobertaFirmino · 04/12/2021 02:05

I hope changes are made too but I'm interested in what changes need to be made and what will facilitate these changes. I feel certain funding is an issue and it seems likely that additional training/study is needed. What other things are needed?

What can we do as individuals? It's all very well being heartbroken and devastated but what can we do to help effect change? What is the point in these hideous feelings we are having if we then don't act on them?

Regarding reporting, I'm sure any SW or police officer would rather we raised concerns which were then found to be unwarranted than to keep quiet about our suspicions but be correct.

Tippexy · 04/12/2021 02:06

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I cant believe it needs explaining that these reports come in and nothing is done

When are you going to wake up?

So you are saying that no one should bother reporting abuse? Do you realise how unbelievably irresponsible that is to say? Your posts are abhorrent.

That really isn’t what @Ijsbear is saying.
MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 04/12/2021 02:20

What is she saying?

PamDenick · 04/12/2021 02:21

I guess there’s going to be a massive influx of people training to be social workers now…

MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry · 04/12/2021 02:21

what the fuck were they supposed to do? what, report them?

to what end?

do you really think that this kid, who was reported so many times, would have been saved by the hairdresser? One single more report?

What is she saying, in this comment if she isn’t saying they shouldn’t have reported?

Lizzy1980 · 04/12/2021 02:51

@MamDancer

I'm actually surprised ET aborted. Being pregnant, would she not have felt safer from abuse from other prisoners, as surely staff would add extra layers of protection?

She seemed all about protecting herself so I found this odd.

Yes that's what I thought. I read an article earlier which said that she had no maternal instincts at all. She had babies because she liked the attention she got when they were newborn, as they grew older she lost all interest.
echt · 04/12/2021 02:55

You are right it was 4 July. Also even if they had reported it SS would have done SFA yet again

You don't know that. Pointless speculative vilification of SS.