How many generations back did it go wrong for Arthur

[iwanttobeonleave]

The awful case of Arthur L-H has got me thinking about the long term causes of these situations. Clearly all three adults involved were completely despicable but why? What's caused this and where did it go wrong?

Can this level of disfunction happen in one generation or would there be a history of it if one looked back a few generations?

Just such a completely desperate case, the poor, poor child.

The link between the ruin of Arthur's biological mother and the brutality of ET is Thomas Hughes.

He seems to have a knack of bringing out the worst in women. How did such a good for nothing waster persuade a woman with so much to look forward to in life to drop out of university almost at the finish line and get pregnant very soon after starting a relationship? How does it happen that the next woman sent him recordings of his child moaning in pain as love tokens?

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

I see. I have no words.

It was possibly the only kind thing she has ever done for any child.

The link between the ruin of Arthur's biological mother and the brutality of ET is Thomas Hughes.

Exactly this. He’s had relationships with two women who ended up murdering someone else while in a relationship with him.

And was there any involvement from the maternal grandparents?

How did Arthur get abandoned to that fate?

@mathanxiety

The link between the ruin of Arthur's biological mother and the brutality of ET is Thomas Hughes.

He seems to have a knack of bringing out the worst in women. How did such a good for nothing waster persuade a woman with so much to look forward to in life to drop out of university almost at the finish line and get pregnant very soon after starting a relationship? How does it happen that the next woman sent him recordings of his child moaning in pain as love tokens?

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

I agree.

@Postdatedpandemic

And was there any involvement from the maternal grandparents?

How did Arthur get abandoned to that fate?

Apparently his maternal grandmother hadn’t been allowed to seen him since October 2019.

@mathanxiety

The link between the ruin of Arthur's biological mother and the brutality of ET is Thomas Hughes.

He seems to have a knack of bringing out the worst in women. How did such a good for nothing waster persuade a woman with so much to look forward to in life to drop out of university almost at the finish line and get pregnant very soon after starting a relationship? How does it happen that the next woman sent him recordings of his child moaning in pain as love tokens?

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

I absolutely agree with this.

@liveforsummer

Just because a child had what is perceived to be a privileged upbringing and gone to a posh school, or has at least one decent parent doesn't mean they haven't suffered abuse and/or extreme trauma. That's worth remembering when people are shocked at the backgrounds of the parents. It could well have gone deeper but as a pp states, I'm not sure we will ever know

Absolutely. I know of at least two people from affluent backgrounds who attended private schools and went completely off the rails with drink, drugs, sex, criminal offences etc

@liveforsummer

Just because a child had what is perceived to be a privileged upbringing and gone to a posh school, or has at least one decent parent doesn't mean they haven't suffered abuse and/or extreme trauma. That's worth remembering when people are shocked at the backgrounds of the parents. It could well have gone deeper but as a pp states, I'm not sure we will ever know

Exactly this! The judgemental thinking of Social Services who believed ‘the house being clean was a sign no abuse was taking place’ was one reason among many why this boy was horrifically let down.

Abusive people are from all walks of life not just poor and uneducated.

@Bagelsandbrie

I hope we’re not going to go down the rabbit hole of suggesting those who are abused go on to be abusers here. There are far more people who were abused as children (like me) who will end up more sensitive, empathetic and determined to be a better parent to their own children than those who go the other way. We just don’t talk as much about these people / “us”.

Important point - thanks ❤️

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

Completely agree. I’m very uncomfortable with the narrative from TH’s mother and also PPs on this thread (and others) that if only TH hadn’t met ET then Arthur would have been fine. As though TH didn’t play an extremely active role, possibly even as the driving force, in his son’s torture and murder. He wasn’t some poor man led astray by a murderess.

It has to start somewhere doesn't it?
Regardless, as adults we should be mature and responsible enough to realise that, whatever happened to us, we are ultimately responsible for our own actions. Whatever awful things may or may not have happened to previous generations. There is help available- counselling, parenting classes, social services as a last resort if you can't manage to parent.

I have every sympathy with people who don't have an experience of a loving childhood, but not for those who abuse the most vulnerable in society.

I agree Bagelsandbrie, that's my family experience too.

I’m very uncomfortable with the narrative from TH’s mother and also PPs on this thread (and others) that if only TH hadn’t met ET then Arthur would have been fine.

Please don’t misrepresent my post.

The wider family were concerned about the boy.

What a horrible thread. The truth is that none of us knows much, if anything, about the antecedents in this case. This idle speculation is in extremely poor taste.
Let the child rest in peace now.

@CagneyNYPD1

Also, the BBC has previously reported that Tustin was pregnant at the time of her arrest. If there is now a baby, I hope that baby is placed with a loving family.

According to one article I saw she had an abortion.

I think I read his biological maternal grandmother is/was a nurse and his paternal grandmother a teacher. Seems on the outside like two caring functional women who presumably didn’t torture their children (Arthur’s parents).

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I’m very uncomfortable with the narrative from TH’s mother and also PPs on this thread (and others) that if only TH hadn’t met ET then Arthur would have been fine.

Please don’t misrepresent my post.

I haven't misrepresented anything. You said...

Had he not met ET it’s highly likely Arthur would still be living with his grandparents having a normal life. But then again, maybe his father would have just met another abuser instead.

@KaptainKaveman

What a horrible thread. The truth is that none of us knows much, if anything, about the antecedents in this case. This idle speculation is in extremely poor taste. Let the child rest in peace now.

Sorry to cause offence, it certainly wasn't intended, but I do understand your point, so I apologise.

I suppose it's a human need to want to understand, I guess never will though.

Exactly! I didn’t say if TH hadn’t met ET Arthur would be fine!

I know lots of people who went to public schools and/or prestigious universities whose, often affluent, parents were horribly abusive. I don't think anyone's job or educational background says very much about their parenting.

@mathanxiety

The link between the ruin of Arthur's biological mother and the brutality of ET is Thomas Hughes.

He seems to have a knack of bringing out the worst in women. How did such a good for nothing waster persuade a woman with so much to look forward to in life to drop out of university almost at the finish line and get pregnant very soon after starting a relationship? How does it happen that the next woman sent him recordings of his child moaning in pain as love tokens?

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

Exactly what I was thinking. He sounds like the catalyst in both women's actions.

His paternal GPs and uncle had apparently been a loving refuge for him before lockdown.

So public school mum and dad from loving family. But who really knows?

@CagneyNYPD1 but the other children were also been abused because of the abuse they daily witnessed.