How many generations back did it go wrong for Arthur

[iwanttobeonleave]

The awful case of Arthur L-H has got me thinking about the long term causes of these situations. Clearly all three adults involved were completely despicable but why? What's caused this and where did it go wrong?

Can this level of disfunction happen in one generation or would there be a history of it if one looked back a few generations?

Just such a completely desperate case, the poor, poor child.

I wonder where ETs children are now. I know two were already with their fathers but the two who were living with her. The ripples spread out, the damaged children, Arthur's mother, grandparents, uncles, aunts. I bet the staff and children who knew him at school are also very disturbed by this. The police who investigated it, the medical staff who tried to save him. Even the people who have just read about it.

At the centre of it all one helpless little boy and two adults who did unthinkable things to him. A complete nightmare.

It's really difficult to comprehend that some people are born evil in that there is something in them which manifests itself as sadism and cruelty. It is easier to understand that what someone has experienced may shape their behaviour. But that doesn't excuse them from being responsible for their own behaviour.

I also think it is often easier for people who aren't involved to objectively judge a situation. The grandmothers because of their relationships with the protagonists do not have that advantage, if that's the right way of putting it.

In the UK social workers have a historic reputation for causing harm to children by taking them away from loving families. I've read endless posts on here by worried mothers who thing social services will take their children away for all manner of things. Now it seems things have swung too far the other way.

Poor Arthur's short life was so blighted by the adults who should have nurtured and protected and loved him. So many of us are horrified by what happened to this little boy that I hope as a society we don't let this happen again. If you have concerns about a child, report them. I don't know if this is accurate, but from what I've heard no one reported what was happening to Arthur to the NSPCC, though they did report to social services and the police. Could that have made a difference? There's a reluctance to raise concerns about other people's parenting, but how can an adult see a child in such a condition, being treated so appallingly to not do something about it?

But does that mean it could happen to anyone? Personally I find that thought terrifying. It's much more palatable to apportion blame on previous generations, but clearly we can't!

I think this is one of the reasons why we’re so quick to “other” and to demonise; to convince ourselves that we aren’t possibly like that and this couldn’t possibly happen to us. “They” are evil and nothing like us.

The sad fact is that it takes very little for our lives to take a very different route. I’ve known friends who had good upbringings die of drug overdoses after having fallen in with “the wrong crowd” and been unable to find their way back, I’ve seen a friend lose access to her children after she prioritised an abusive relationship over her children (driven, I suspect, by a desperate desire for love after horrendously abusive parents).

The answer, as always, is more intervention, earlier and better funded. A reduction of poverty, both financial and educational. For drug and alcohol rehabilitation to be properly funded and for there to be much better support for the abused. All the time that doesn’t change, this will continue.

@picklemewalnuts

His mum's verdict was manslaughter not murder.

That's my thoughts. Her first trial she was not guilty she was only found guilty on appeal.

I'd like to know more about her story. But I do feel sorry for her.

The mum was found guilty of manslaughter, in some sort of fight with a grown man where she lifted a knife.

The Dad was found guilty of manslaughter for torturing and allowing his very own tiny frail 6 year old to be brutally abused, and starving him.

How the fuck than their convictions be the same?

@Angliski

Why did no one do anything? Why didn’t the grandparents pick him up from school one say and refuse to give him Back? Why did so many people stand by why he suffered? I’m heartbroken by this story. It’s so disgusting that no one felt it was their duty to rescue him.

Because we were in bloody lock down. Do you not think teachers would have noticed?

A starving, thirsty, poisoned boy in the classroom?

And even if the gran and uncle had taken him theyd have no right too and could be done for kidnapping.

As it was they were threatened with fines for breaking lockdown.

[quote EsmeraldaFudge]@TatianaBis
Yes Solihull school is a private school ( public). My eldest DS went there[/quote]
Then you should know better than anyone that it’s a very old private school, public in the original sense of being open to the public and under some form of public scrutiny (as opposed to private schools which were not), but was never one of the series of public schools with social cachet to which the term now refers (and has done since the 18thc).

Christ’s Hospital is similar.

The point remains the same - she had a good start at independent school and Nottingham uni and then imploded.

Very sad for all the families involved, but I especially feel bad for the gps who tried to alert SS.

@WinoAnon

I was reading some of the comments by the hairdresser and her partner. They were horrified by the level of abuse they witnessed but didn't report it.

It's devastating that this was not stopped by social services when reported, even if things appeared ok the stepmother had apparently already had two children removed from her care so further investigation of allegations should have been made. However I think it's awful what the hairdresser described but didn't report. I can imagine a first hand account from a non biased party could have been crucial to social services actually doing something.

Perhaps there needs to be a national campaign about reporting these incidents. It must happen in many cases were people don't report because it's someone else's parenting when there's a fucking innocent human beings life at stake.

I think WinoAnon has made a really good point here. What are the reasons why people do/don't report abuse to social services.

Here we have an example of family members (one of whom reported anonymously) and other contacts (hairdresser and her boyfriend who did not.

I have read that his relationship with Arthur's mother was full of violence.

I could be wrong here but the violence in Arthur's mother's relationship was actually with the partner whom she killed, not Arthur's father.

Of course reporting to abuse to social services depends on them investigating properly. We won't know the full circumstances of why social services seemed to accept the lies they were told until the inquiry is completed but I think WinoAnon's idea of a campaign is a good one.

@yefferson

I know lots of people who went to public schools and/or prestigious universities whose, often affluent, parents were horribly abusive. I don't think anyone's job or educational background says very much about their parenting.

This.

LOLing at the idea that a private school education and affluent parents is some gold-plated guarantee against abuse.

Also abuse isn't hereditary. You get psychopaths who literally cannot empathise with others. There are people who are damaged by other relationships, people whose circumstances push them into abusive behaviour etc. And just common or garden nasty bastards. There is a higher risk that if your parents are abusive you will abuse but its far from automatic.

I was listening to something on the radio the other day where they were asking what the highest predictor of child abuse was and it was having a step parent living in the home with a child.

@Lockdownbear, I agree that the lockdowns are likely to have exacerbated Arthur’s situation, as he would not have been seen by wider family, teachers etc for some time.

However, red flags were waving even before the pandemic began. A timeline in the Guardian states that ‘Teachers reported Arthur was becoming “fixated” with his dad disappearing from his life, or killing him, and had also become obsessed with death, murder and guns.’

I read elsewhere that Arthur had told teachers two or three times that he believed his father was going to kill him or wanted to kill him.

Please note, I’m not blaming the teachers, or any of the individual professionals who came into contact with Arthur and had concerns about him.

But the signs were there, and were noticed and discussed by various people. Arthur was failed in a number of ways.

@Titsywoo

I was listening to something on the radio the other day where they were asking what the highest predictor of child abuse was and it was having a step parent living in the home with a child.

Based solely on the stories I’ve heard in the news over the years this is absolutely no surprise at all.

I think they were a toxic combination but I do agree that it probably wouldn’t have happened had they not met each other. By all accounts individually they were adequate parents based on the judge’s comments. By adequate I mean meeting the v v basic needs. They spurred each other on, she hated him on sight and unquestionably influenced him - he then in turn took out all his frustrations out on the child. I’m surprised the hairdresser and boyfriend are not getting more of a mention. They witnessed the disintegration of his condition, knew it was wrong yet said absolutely nothing. It’s an appalling case

And neither of them said or did a single thing. What is actually wrong with them?

what the fuck were they supposed to do? what, report them?

to what end?

do you really think that this kid, who was reported so many times, would have been saved by the hairdresser? One single more report?

these threads make me so angry because this child could and should have been helped and saved. Poor, poor little sod. But there isn't the will. There just isn't the will to do anything about it.

It's so much easier to scream on media and demonise the parents than to actually write to the MP, to do what you can for kids in this situation either directly by helping or indirectly by writing to MPs to get actual funding for Social Services and a better level of foster care.

But on no, it's so much easier just to post your upset.

That man who gave him a glass of water showed him some tiny kindness in the boy's spiral down into death. That man did more, and his actions mattered more, than anyone posting here, unless they are directly involved in helping desperate children.

@Angliski

Why did no one do anything? Why didn’t the grandparents pick him up from school one say and refuse to give him Back? Why did so many people stand by why he suffered? I’m heartbroken by this story. It’s so disgusting that no one felt it was their duty to rescue him.

I thought this but then realistically they couldn't do that I would be child abduction and he'd just be taken back and probably treated worse. If I had been in that boys life I like to think I'd have been on the phone to social services every day.

@Cyw2018

Considering how rare it is for women to commit murder, it is interesting that Thomas Hughes managed to form relationships with 2 women who went on to do this in a relatively short period of time. It will be fascinating to read some psychological analysis of him.

Yes because if a woman behaves in a cruel and sadistic way it must be a man's fault. She has no free will even though she is an adult.

@Ijsbear

And neither of them said or did a single thing. What is actually wrong with them?

what the fuck were they supposed to do? what, report them?

to what end?

do you really think that this kid, who was reported so many times, would have been saved by the hairdresser? One single more report?

these threads make me so angry because this child could and should have been helped and saved. Poor, poor little sod. But there isn't the will. There just isn't the will to do anything about it.

It's so much easier to scream on media and demonise the parents than to actually write to the MP, to do what you can for kids in this situation either directly by helping or indirectly by writing to MPs to get actual funding for Social Services and a better level of foster care.

But on no, it's so much easier just to post your upset.

Demonise the parents?!? They fucking murdered him! They should be demonised! And yes the hairdresser should have reported it and yes her report might have been the kick up the arse social services needed. It might have saved this little boys life.

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

Agreed.

what the fuck were they supposed to do? what, report them?

Umm, yes. Obviously.

to what end?

Really? You need it explained why people should report child abuse to social services?

do you really think that this kid, who was reported so many times, would have been saved by the hairdresser? One single more report?

How would the hairdresser know how many reports had been made and ignored?

Your post has really baffled me. You are essentially saying that no one should bother reporting abuse if they witness it.

@Ijsbear

That man who gave him a glass of water showed him some tiny kindness in the boy's spiral down into death. That man did more, and his actions mattered more, than anyone posting here, unless they are directly involved in helping desperate children.

He didn’t go anywhere near far enough.

Abuse isn’t heredity? Strongly disagree!

Generational trauma is very much a thing. It’s passed on from generation to generation. Of course it can be broken but more often than not, it has repercussions.

“PicsInRed

The mother alleged domestic abuse at her murder trial. The judge didnt believe her, claiming it went both ways, however that's the response to most women's claims of domestic abuse isn't it. Sally Challon was in prison quite a while before she was freed iirc.“

I saw in one report that a judge did believe her, but then another judge overturned that.

It could be true that it went both ways, but it is difficult to necessarily trust this. The texts his father sent to the killer about him were horrific. He was evidently awful too.

If the hairdresser had reported it to 999, NSPCC and social services one of them might have done something in time. They might not have done. I'm sure that will be on her conscience for the rest of her life, and she will be known as the person who could have intervened and didn't forever now. Her boyfriend, too, could have done those same things. I feel like he redeemed himself a little in that he did try to show Arthur a bit of human decency and kindness more than anyone else did there. Of course he didn't report it either. I hope that this makes people reflect on what they could do in that situation differently that neither of them did. To intervene at the time or to report it. I think a lot of people try to deny even to themselves what they have see or are seeing though. Or are just too afraid to speak out.