How many generations back did it go wrong for Arthur

[iwanttobeonleave]

The awful case of Arthur L-H has got me thinking about the long term causes of these situations. Clearly all three adults involved were completely despicable but why? What's caused this and where did it go wrong?

Can this level of disfunction happen in one generation or would there be a history of it if one looked back a few generations?

Just such a completely desperate case, the poor, poor child.

@mathanxiety

The link between the ruin of Arthur's biological mother and the brutality of ET is Thomas Hughes.

He seems to have a knack of bringing out the worst in women. How did such a good for nothing waster persuade a woman with so much to look forward to in life to drop out of university almost at the finish line and get pregnant very soon after starting a relationship? How does it happen that the next woman sent him recordings of his child moaning in pain as love tokens?

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

Such a good point.

I have despaired at TH's mother (in her statement) and brother (on the witness stand) being his apologists, saying how great he was until he met ET. I have read that his relationship with Arthur's mother was full of violence.

@mathanxiety

The link between the ruin of Arthur's biological mother and the brutality of ET is Thomas Hughes.

He seems to have a knack of bringing out the worst in women. How did such a good for nothing waster persuade a woman with so much to look forward to in life to drop out of university almost at the finish line and get pregnant very soon after starting a relationship? How does it happen that the next woman sent him recordings of his child moaning in pain as love tokens?

I am not sure the role of Thomas Hughes in this terrible story of ruined lives has been examined enough.

You could just as easily argue that as Arthur's mother was the link between his father and the boyfriend she killed it must be her influence that causes men to behave poorly. This notion that women should not be assumed to have agency in the presence of a sufficiently charming, is damaging. More likely everyone involved was a scumbag. Scumbags are attracted to other scumbags because other scumbags do not judge for scumbag behaviour. They reinforce eachother.

Yungwaffle - good point about getting away with bad behaviour with others who are similar, sounds obvious now you've pointed it out but it hadn't occurred to me

Someone going to public school or a good university doesn’t mean they had a happy/healthy home though. Domestic abuse, whether violence or emotional abuse can happen in all socio-economic backgrounds.

@maryandgerrylivinginderry You said he'd be living a normal life if his father hadn't met ET. Your words. But then went on to say that maybe his father would just have met another abuser. Again, implying that it was this outside force of an abusive partner that sealed Arthur's fate, rather than his father who played a major role - probably as the driving force - in the torture and death of his son.
I don't mean to single you out. Other people have said similar on other threads and TH's mother said so in her statement after sentencing. But I stand by everything I've said. It's a disturbing narrative to perpetuate.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I see. I have no words.

It was possibly the only kind thing she has ever done for any child.

Exactly what I was going to say. Abortions at 21 weeks make people uncomfortable but honestly I think it's for the best. There's already four traumatised kids and one who didn't survive it. Imagine knowing you'd never known your parents because they killed your brother.

You said he'd be living a normal life if his father hadn't met ET. Your words.

No, I didn’t. You actually quoted my posts so there is no excuse for this.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

You said he'd be living a normal life if his father hadn't met ET. Your words.

No, I didn’t. You actually quoted my posts so there is no excuse for this.

Come on guys.... please don't argue ...😘

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry

I don’t think it’s so much a case of generations this time as much as it is the worst people managed to get together and create hell for him. His mother, without meeting his father may have carried on on the good path she was, but she met him, her life spiralled, she created a child and had him in unacceptable circumstances which ultimately led to him being left with his father who sought out someone even worse than him. Had he not met ET it’s highly likely Arthur would still be living with his grandparents having a normal life. But then again, maybe his father would have just met another abuser instead.

My post again in full for anyone who needs clarification.

You can be a psychopath or sociopath without heredity reasons surely. I never studied psychology but some people really get off on misery. My mum does. But it's not been passed onto me via genetics or the environment of my childhood which was abusive.

I know how to torture a child horrifically. But theres no desire to do so. I even had to turn the news over last night. Things like this deeply upset me and linger with me.

Sometimes it's not a build up through the generations. There is choice, morals, empathy. But some people are just evil. Because they like it. They are born with that in them.

In many instances there is a familial link in abuse, but certainly not in all.

This is predominantly the fault of the three people who acted as parental figures, his mother, his father and his step mother who murdered him.

His mother is an alcoholic murderer in jail. His father is an abusive sadistic man, and his step mother is a sadistic murderer too.

There is culpability in the wider family though, one grandparent said they wouldn’t have them in the house as his wife was so upset about the treatment of Arthur, he had to sit and face the wall for hours during the visit.

They all knew. Plenty reported, four reports I understand to social services. Who also bear culpability here

How any social worker could look at that little boy hours before he died and declare no issue is beyond comprehension and as sick as it gets.

@iwanttobeonleave please, Don’t patronise people with kisses, its not acceptable to misrepresent someone on such a serious issue- I’m not arguing, I’m correcting a false statement.

So i think we can safely safe it doesn't go back generations,

But does that mean it could happen to anyone? Personally I find that thought terrifying. It's much more palatable to apportion blame on previous generations, but clearly we can't!

[quote MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry]@iwanttobeonleave please, Don’t patronise people with kisses, its not acceptable to misrepresent someone on such a serious issue- I’m not arguing, I’m correcting a false statement.[/quote]
Sorry- I didn't mean to patronise! Oh boy, maybe I need to go and do something else. Sorry 😞

@iwanttobeonleave

So i think we can safely safe it doesn't go back generations,

But does that mean it could happen to anyone? Personally I find that thought terrifying. It's much more palatable to apportion blame on previous generations, but clearly we can't!

It is absolutely not more palatable to blame previous generations. Why the hell would you find it more palatable? That’s sick.

@MaryAndGerryLivingInDerry I’m done talking with you about it. You wrote what you wrote. It’s there in black and white 🤷‍♀️

It is indeed there in black and white. Thankfully.

Bluntness100 I don't think that's what I meant.
Very Badly worded post.

I was trying to say that if there was a reason for it, it would be more understandable I.e a depraved childhood, multiple generations of abuse etc. I should'nt have used the word palatable. That's not what I meant.

I don't think it will ever be understandable tbh

I was reading some of the comments by the hairdresser and her partner. They were horrified by the level of abuse they witnessed but didn't report it.

It's devastating that this was not stopped by social services when reported, even if things appeared ok the stepmother had apparently already had two children removed from her care so further investigation of allegations should have been made. However I think it's awful what the hairdresser described but didn't report. I can imagine a first hand account from a non biased party could have been crucial to social services actually doing something.

Perhaps there needs to be a national campaign about reporting these incidents. It must happen in many cases were people don't report because it's someone else's parenting when there's a fucking innocent human beings life at stake.

@Udouhun

I think talking about which generation went wrong just let's those 2 evil people off the hook. The responsibility for Arthur's death begins and ends with them.

Agree with this.

Tow evil bastards meet each other. And that is how it has ended.

I am a leftie leaning liberal but I really hope they suffer in jail

@iwanttobeonleave

So i think we can safely safe it doesn't go back generations,

But does that mean it could happen to anyone? Personally I find that thought terrifying. It's much more palatable to apportion blame on previous generations, but clearly we can't!

I suppose sometimes it does go back generations. But mostly not. And that certainly doesn't mean that it needs to go forwards continuously. As I said in a previous post, it is our responsibility to ensure that we do whatever is needed to try give our children better lives. Whether that means therapy, parenting lessons etc. Or even deciding not to have children, if we think we can't do that.

@WinoAnon

I was reading some of the comments by the hairdresser and her partner. They were horrified by the level of abuse they witnessed but didn't report it.

It's devastating that this was not stopped by social services when reported, even if things appeared ok the stepmother had apparently already had two children removed from her care so further investigation of allegations should have been made. However I think it's awful what the hairdresser described but didn't report. I can imagine a first hand account from a non biased party could have been crucial to social services actually doing something.

Perhaps there needs to be a national campaign about reporting these incidents. It must happen in many cases were people don't report because it's someone else's parenting when there's a fucking innocent human beings life at stake.

I agree. I can’t believe the hairdresser and her partner did nothing! Her partner apparently gave Arthur water in secret, said he was too weak to hold the glass by himself and the man told him you don’t need to be afraid of me. He said he saw a fear in his eyes, that the boy gaunt, weak and broken. The hairdresser said he was dressed in a onesie and she could see his collar bones poking through, that he could barely get himself upstairs his legs were shaking they were so weak. She saw him being told to stand by the front door for the 6 hours he was there and heard him screaming in pain and was told it was because TH was doing pressure pointing on him.

And neither of them said or did a single thing. What is actually wrong with them?

@EsmeraldaFudge

His birth mother went to public school and was in her third year at university when she met his father. She then descended into drunk and drug addiction.

Not correct, she reportedly went to a private school in Solihull.

I was really chilled to see Tustins body cam footage from when she was explaining to the police what happened (aka lying through her teeth). She was so cold and so fluent in her lie - no hesitation, no stuttering. it is one thing to be not the perfect parent - but this poor boy was tortured over a considerable period of time. The other kids in house will be so scarred from this. I just have to believe that they both had a capacity for evil that they brought out in each other.