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Original poster

School want 5yo to be removed.

298 replies

Indecisivelurcher · 01/12/2021 14:36

I'm asking so I can perhaps pass advice on to my relatives. I think the main thing I want advice on is what sorts of things they should be asking of school.

The little boy in question is 5yrs old, in yr2. He has some issues around anger management, basically he flies off the handle and won't calm down. He has hurt a teacher before and he has hurt class mates, things like head butting. He hits his mum. He still has multiple incidents wetting himself a week. Autism and ADHD have been suggested, autism has now been ruled out by private assessment, ADHD hasn't been investigated yet. He has always been a bit of a handful but not dreadful, he can sit and concentrate well, he's bright, he's very kind to younger children.

The issue I am asking about is school seem to just exclude him. My relative has several calls a week to go pick him up, and not allow him back the following day. School have suggested they consider taking him out of the school. My relative thinks they just want to get rid of him now. They want him to go to part time hours but again that won't necessarily help with anything. Since then, they just default to exclusion, which doesn't help him. They don't seem to have a plan in place on how to help stop these behaviours. They have very full classes of 33 kids I think, 1 TA for the class and a part time SENCO. It's like they just want him out of their hair.

Thanks for reading, as I said at the start I am hoping to get some tips to pass on to my relatives to help make sure they're asking the right things of school. What would a good school be putting in place here?

OP posts:
Howshouldibehave · 01/12/2021 18:13

Not all EPs are visiting.

The one we pay for privately will, but we can only afford two of those visits each year-both had happened by October half term.

The LEA EPs are still refusing to come into schools. Yes, we have complained.

MaeveDidIt · 01/12/2021 18:13

Would you honesty expect the teaching staff in a main stream school to deal with his extreme behavioural issues/violence, and in doing so having to leave the remaining 32 (scared stiff) 6 year olds with no education because of him; 1 child?
Your relative needs to do some research and find the correct school/facility that have correct and robust measures in place.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 01/12/2021 18:14

But they haven't actually DONE anything, other than ask her to pick him up and not come back the next day!

Why have his parents not DONE anything to sort out his abusive and violent behaviour? Why is it up to the school (who also have to look after all their other pupils?).

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

5 year olds Families General education General parenting
Original poster
Indecisivelurcher · 01/12/2021 18:14

@MaeveDidIt

Would you honesty expect the teaching staff in a main stream school to deal with his extreme behavioural issues/violence, and in doing so having to leave the remaining 32 (scared stiff) 6 year olds with no education because of him; 1 child? Your relative needs to do some research and find the correct school/facility that have correct and robust measures in place.
It's not like that 🙄
OP posts:
Benjispruce5 · 01/12/2021 18:15

@MollysDolly the Ed psychs aren’t coming in!! We have chn waiting but for over a year they won’t visit due to Covid.

Original poster
Indecisivelurcher · 01/12/2021 18:15

@GreenFingersWouldBeHandy

But they haven't actually DONE anything, other than ask her to pick him up and not come back the next day!

Why have his parents not DONE anything to sort out his abusive and violent behaviour? Why is it up to the school (who also have to look after all their other pupils?).

Er, they have?!
OP posts:
Benjispruce5 · 01/12/2021 18:16

@Itsalmostanaccessory not in my county!

Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss · 01/12/2021 18:17

It sounds like they are attempting to “off roll” him. It’s illegal and ofsted take a very dim view of it.
They absolutely should be applying for an ECHP, referring on for assessments and working with the parents on strategies.
I would advise the parents to make an official complaint if they aren’t being taken seriously.

Missmissmiiiiiiiiisss · 01/12/2021 18:19

To the previous posters. Every child is entitled to an education. If the mainstream school sincerely feel his needs are best met in a specialist provision then they would need to contact the LEA and also be applying for an ECHP assessment.
They are not taking responsible steps.

Original poster
Indecisivelurcher · 01/12/2021 18:21

@Notmoresugar

I feel so sorry for those poor other children, they must be frightened witless and they're obviously missing out on a lot of education because of his behaviour issues. He needs to go to a special school that have measures in place to deal with him properly.
He's not just randomly flying off the handle at other kids.
OP posts:
Sirzy · 01/12/2021 18:23

[quote Benjispruce5]@MollysDolly the Ed psychs aren’t coming in!! We have chn waiting but for over a year they won’t visit due to Covid.[/quote]
Well they should be.

The very clear advice is that visits into school for purposes like this should be back to normal now.

EHCP assessments have been supposedly back to normal for a while now and the EP assessment is a key part of that being able to take place.

If they are using COVID as an excuse that’s all it is. An excuse.

whatsitpotsit · 01/12/2021 18:23

@Benjispruce5

Educational psychologists are not visiting schools at the moment due to Covid( I know!Angry) so pressing with Senco and high needs funding.
We had an educational psychologist visit our son this week, as part of his EHCP assessment
Theunamedcat · 01/12/2021 18:25

Has he been like this for awhile? It shouldn't take until year two to actually get some movement

My son has been assessed by Ed psychology speech and language and had his ehcp during the pandemic (it should have been done sooner quite frankly as he has obvious sen since he started at the school nursery at age 2 but that's a rant for another place) have they even requested assessment? Considering many councils won't accept private assessments and prefer to do there own why are they trying to dump this child instead of deal with him 🤔

Sirzy · 01/12/2021 18:25

He's not just randomly flying off the handle at other kids.

That sounds like his triggers are known, that is helpful then as it makes it much easier to work backwards to put things in place to avoid them.

For example we found one of DS major trigger points was the cloakroom. Too busy, too noisy, too much trouble finding his things etc. So it was changed that his coat and things where stored in the classroom to avoid that trigger point.

It often doesn’t take massive things for reasonable adjustments to help everyone

Imitatingdory · 01/12/2021 18:26

mam0918 the school could have applied for an EHCP before now. Via an EHCNA it is possible to get a psychiatrist and/or clinical psychologist assessment as well as OT, SALT, EP etc. EHCPs can include therapies such as play therapy, OT, SALT… without the need to sit on waiting lists for an indeterminable length of time. It is naive to think the school could not do more. Have you applied for an EHCP?

MollysDolly EPs can not diagnose ASD or ADHD, although especially for ASD, they may be part of the MDT.

Whether EPs are carrying out assessments F2F is area dependent, in some LAs EPs are visiting schools, in others they aren’t.

whatsitpotsit · 01/12/2021 18:30

@Notmoresugar

I feel so sorry for those poor other children, they must be frightened witless and they're obviously missing out on a lot of education because of his behaviour issues. He needs to go to a special school that have measures in place to deal with him properly.
It's highly likely there are some unmet needs which are causing this challenging behaviour. Given that the parents are in the process of applying for an EHCP they will have no choice but to send him to a mainstream school for now, and even with an EHCP getting into a specialist school is incredibly difficult. The local authorities notoriously offer the bare minimum of support while making parents and schools jump through umpteen hoops to get any form of support - so sadly it isn't as simple as just sending him to specialist provision.
Benjispruce5 · 01/12/2021 18:31

ED PSYCHs are NOT visiting schools in my county.
Repeat
Repeat
Repeat

Embracelife · 01/12/2021 18:32

Relative shoukd call contact helpline
contact.org.uk/help-for-families/information-advice-services/education-learning/exclusion/

Oblomov21 · 01/12/2021 18:34

I disagree with most on this thread. I think the school just want rid. They have failed him abysmally. But I would push back hard. Speak to the Senco, ask for educational psychologist appointment, ask what is going on with ehcp. Push back hard and put it in writing so there's a paper trail.
Get in the SN boards for advice.
You have to attack every area, diagnosis and GP aswell.

Sirzy · 01/12/2021 18:34

@Benjispruce5

ED PSYCHs are NOT visiting schools in my county. Repeat Repeat Repeat
Then they are not following what the current rules say should be happening.

Repeat
Repeat
Repeat.

Benjispruce5 · 01/12/2021 18:36

We have complained and nothing has changed.

Theunamedcat · 01/12/2021 18:38

@MaeveDidIt

Would you honesty expect the teaching staff in a main stream school to deal with his extreme behavioural issues/violence, and in doing so having to leave the remaining 32 (scared stiff) 6 year olds with no education because of him; 1 child? Your relative needs to do some research and find the correct school/facility that have correct and robust measures in place.
You cannot just put a child in a special school or a "facility" there are procedures in place for a reason and the school arnt following them
whatsitpotsit · 01/12/2021 18:38

@Benjispruce5

We have complained and nothing has changed.
This is really rubbish, why do they always have to put so many barriers in the way of getting support Angry
MollysDolly · 01/12/2021 18:40

@MaeveDidIt

Would you honesty expect the teaching staff in a main stream school to deal with his extreme behavioural issues/violence, and in doing so having to leave the remaining 32 (scared stiff) 6 year olds with no education because of him; 1 child? Your relative needs to do some research and find the correct school/facility that have correct and robust measures in place.
Well, this is my DS. And firstly the rest of the children in his class aren't "scared stiff" of him. This kind of crap gets my back up so much. It's the parents wailing about their PFB and how affected they so obviously are. And actually, the son/daughter is a decent, sensible, non dramatic and friendly child, who just shrugs it off as it actually affects them maybe 1% of the time. Because they understand that's how "Fred" can be sometimes. Sometimes he will burst into years and storm out, and need a break, because he has ADHD. If only the parents could take a leaf out of their children's book.

And the thing that makes all this work, is the school.

Damn right I'd be expecting the school to deal with his additional needs if he is deemed to be placed in their mainstream setting. That's a bare minimum right of any child. And the school does. He has a fiddle toy. He has a laptop as he gets too distracted doodling with any pen or pencil. Weekly behaviour reports sent home to me. He is sat immediately in front of the teacher in every class. He has a "three strike" system each day. The teachers are properly educated in how to present material in a way that engages his brain too. They have a separate classroom that is always vacant, with a staff member, so if DS (or any other of the children there who have additional needs) require a safe and calm space, they have one. No one's education is suffering because of DS. Because the school isn't rubbish. And it's a mainstream school, Ofsted outstanding.

Streamingbannersofdawn · 01/12/2021 18:41

Its not as simple as just finding a specialist school unfortunately. Its a long process and the LA will often fight you all the way.

My son wasn't violent but he couldn't manage the classroom. His school felt it was absolutely fine for him wander the halls all day shadowed by a member of staff. He was 4 years behind in his education and still we had to spend £40.000 and a year of fighting ending up at the first tier tribunal to get him into specialist provision. It's hideous.

The LA lost miserably by the way we got everything he needed and then some.