Any1 notice others are uncomfortable with breastfeeding toddlers?

[Sophie1029734]

I have an 18m old who breastfeeds. She needs it to sleep, may wake up thirsty for some milk, feeds multiple times in the day. It's her desicion to stop, whenever it happens I'll be happy she got to choose when.

I've become so disentised from boobs and sometimes find myself saying to family, think she wants some boob. I dont think about what I'm saying, im just so used to it. But for some reason it makes people so uncomfortable now that she is a toddler and not a baby.
For example, we were at her nans and she was walking around and said mamma boo boo. Everyone jumped in to say, no she said baby and wanted her doll. When the breastfeeding convo comes up, everyone's chatting about when they stopped etc I'll just make convo and say yh.. ill let her decide when to stop and the room goes silent. If LO mentions the word boob the room goes silent. A topic they didnt mind has become something that makes them uncomfortable and sometimes disgusted, I see it all over their face. My family couldnt care less and actively tell me it's an amazing thing, yet none of them were able to breastfeed and those so uncomfortable with the topic did or have watched close family do it.
Anyone else notice others become uncomfortable with you breastfeeding because your child is a toddler?

@SeriouslyISuppose my toddler is very keen on bodily independence. Even as a baby she wouldn’t hold our fingers. She’s never been overly physically affectionate and values personal space. My niece however is 5 and incredibly shy/anxious and needs permanent hand holding etc from her mum. What if she reached 9 or 10, and still found comfort in bf?

[quote Realyorkshiretea]@SeriouslyISuppose my toddler is very keen on bodily independence. Even as a baby she wouldn’t hold our fingers. She’s never been overly physically affectionate and values personal space. My niece however is 5 and incredibly shy/anxious and needs permanent hand holding etc from her mum. What if she reached 9 or 10, and still found comfort in bf?[/quote]
I’m not sure what you’re asking — I can’t pronounce for a particular child who sounds extremely anxious, I was talking more generally about the majority of non-anxious children. I can entirely imagine a very anxious child might find bf comforting at 9 or 10, but I do also think that as her parent, I’d be focusing on gently increasing her confidence and independence, and that bf might actually be counterproductive in that.

But as I said, that’s an extreme case. The majority of children are asserting their independence by late primary school.

Why would it be counter productive?

Basically what I’m saying is that all the ‘good’ reasons to bf a 4 year old would equally apply at 9, 10, 25. So any ‘reason’ you use to say bf is strange at 10 could equally be applied to a 4 year old.

So even you have a fairly arbitrary age at which you would find it strange or unacceptable, even though your ‘reasons’ for that are no stronger than another person’s ‘reasons’ for finding bf a 4 year old strange.

As you have your culturally/societally influenced opinion on the matter, why do you find it strange that others do?

@Realyorkshiretea

But why would you find 11 or 12 strange? The health benefits are still there, it doesn’t create emotional neediness, it doesn’t affect anyone else. So why would it be strange? Just because your norm is that bf should finish before 7, why does that make it strange?

Because as I said in my previous post, 11 or 12 is well past the natural term of weaning. Also, children have their adult teeth by then, the shape of their jaw changes and they cannot physically latch on as nature intended. I know of no culture in the world where children are still BF at that age. 8 is the latest that I know of.

And to answer your later post and question, children have their full immunity by about the age that their adult teeth come through (no coincidence there). Before that age, children are still developing their own immunity, so any added protection can only be beneficial. Of course, this does not address comfort etc, but as a PP said, it would be vanishingly rare for a child of 11 or 12 to want to do that for comfort anyway.

As for cultural differences, of course, I see your point there... We don't exist in a vacuum. That is why any posters who admit to finding it strange, but admit it's their own issue, I sympathise with. We are all a product of our cultures. It's the posters that say it's not necessary because they can have cow's milk that I take issue with. Young children still need milk of one form or another. So clearly human milk, if possible and the mother is happy to continue, is clearly more appropriate for human babies than the alternatives. Talking about adults drinking cows milk is irrelevant. Milk is not for adults and not particularly healthy for us. We do it because we like it. Children DO need milk. So human milk... Perfect for them. Formula or normal cows or goats milk, totally fine too. But the starting point is the natural physiological needs of the child. Not the other way round.

I fed DS2 until he was 3. I have a couple of relatives who still mention how weird and unnecessary it was. DS is almost 15

He used to call it Mummy milk, named my boobs and was adamant one of them was chocolate milk

@Realyorkshiretea

Why would it be counter productive?

Basically what I’m saying is that all the ‘good’ reasons to bf a 4 year old would equally apply at 9, 10, 25. So any ‘reason’ you use to say bf is strange at 10 could equally be applied to a 4 year old.

So even you have a fairly arbitrary age at which you would find it strange or unacceptable, even though your ‘reasons’ for that are no stronger than another person’s ‘reasons’ for finding bf a 4 year old strange.

As you have your culturally/societally influenced opinion on the matter, why do you find it strange that others do?

I think you’re replying to someone else and have got me confused with them. I’ve never said I would find breastfeeding at any age ‘unacceptable’. Up the thread I said that I’m envious of anyone who was able to bf for even a few months because my milk never came in. I have friends who were still bf their children in the first year or two of primary school.

I’m perfectly well aware we’re talking in the context of western first-world society here, where children generally move away from physical and psychological dependence on their parents to establish their independence in young adulthood — and that childhood and adolescence are viewed quite differently in societies where adult children stay living with their birth families and don’t need to cut off and establish their separateness from their parents in the same way.

But given that the context is the society we’re both presumably living in, and if we’re still talking about an ultra-anxious little girl aged nine or ten putatively taking comfort from breastfeeding, then it’s less that I would find that ‘strange’ than that I think a good parent would be trying to encourage her gently towards being less dependent on that kind of crutch, same as if it was a comfort object she couldn’t move without.

But who decides the age of natural weaning? Isn’t it arbitrary or merely an average, with statistical outliers? Most of the babies I know who self weaned did so between 1 and 2 - so surely there are also kids who overshoot as well?

The need for calcium never goes away. The need for comfort and human contact never goes away. The antibodies never go away. Children are only heavily reliant on milk until 1 or so, then can get everything they need from a healthy diet. So past this age, any cut-off is arbitrary isn’t it?

There are kids out there who still bf at 8 - there has been the odd poster on here who does it. There was also an article on grown men bfing in Africa - quite horrific, you’ll have to look it up. So it probably isn’t as vanishingly rare worldwide as you think.

My only point in saying all this, is that objecting to another person’s cut off is strange when you too have an arbitrary cut off. Their limit is no less logical than yours.

@Realyorkshiretea. But the cut off is not arbitrary. Experts have based their estimation of natural term weaning based on many factors, including human gestation length, other primates, average ages around the world etc etc etc. You're obviously interested so do some research. It's interesting!

And some of the points you raised in your last post haven't acknowledged my last post to you. The antibodies being still there etc... I addressed that point when I explained that children have gained their own full immunity by a certain age, between 3 and 7 (another factor used to determine natural term weaning). Receiving antibodies past that point will not hurt of course, but isn't necessary or beneficial in the way that it still is up to the age that kids start to gain their adult teeth and lose their milk teeth.

You're right that people find it strange because they are not used to it, but they won't get used to it if women are too uncomfortable to do it in public because of the reactions of others. A vicious circle. Attitudes need to change and people to become educated on the matter.

So children may have their own antibodies beyond a certain age, but why wouldn’t a few extra antibodies be anything but a good thing? After all as adults we take multivitamins etc. What’s the difference? Sometimes we don’t have something because we NEED it, just because we want it, so why should this be different 😉

The cut off is merely an estimation, if some babies self wean at 1, then the ‘cut off’ is either inaccurate or far too specific to be meaningful for most kids.

Etc etc, I think you catch my drift. I fully respect other’s opinions whether they think 2 is too old or 10, because they are all formed through the same logic & lens of our societal norms.

@Realyorkshiretea. Yoyr last two paragraphs argue an interesting point and I don't particularly see anything wrong with what you've written there. But perhaps we're debating different points, because as I said, I have no problem with people admitting what their own cut off point of comfort with BF is. What makes me cross is those that try to argue that a very young toddler or child ought to be drinking cows milk instead of human milk, when milk is still an important part of their diet. Milk from all mammals is for the young of their species, not the adults. So given that milk is still needed in their diet, why shouldn't it be breastmilk, designed for them? Why criticise a mother for giving her child a vital aspect of their diet with species appropriate milk? Personally my children all self weaned at 2. But I would not be so arrogant as to assume that this age is appropriate or right for all babies or toddlers. Some will do it later, come will do it earlier. But what is certain is that no child of 11 or 12 is still able to do it properly from a physiological perspective. Nor would they still want to.

@Somethingsnappy but you’re essentially arguing the same thing, just for a later age - is it more natural for a 12 year old to be drinking their mother’s milk, or cow’s milk? Milk is only the staple food until 1, so why does it make you cross that someone disapproves of bfing at 4 when you admitted you would find it odd at 10? Neither a 4 year old or a 10 year old need milk as their main food source, if a 4 year old did I would see your point.

I’m certain if you did some Googling you would find cases of much older children and beyond still bfing - you can’t say ‘that doesn’t happen’ because I have heard of cases and I’m sure you can find them if you look.

Interesting debate by the way

@Realyorkshiretea. But milk is not a necessary part of children's diet at 12, physiologically, same as adults. Younger than 4 or 5, it still is. And if it isn't provided for by breastmilk, then it is given by milk of other species. Or very very carefully substituted for by vegan alternatives. So we are really not arguing the same thing. Because you ARE picking an arbitrary age, whereas I'm not. Young mammals still need milk. They stop needing milk when, among other factors, their teeth change.

Also, i don't usually like asking posters to provide a link... I find it quite passive aggressive, when usually a quick google search will reveal the answers. But in this case, if you can find a link to BF past 8 years, I'd be very interested. Because I know a lot about this subject and I can not find any at all.

Actively following this thread. Great debate :)

Milk is only part of children’s diet as they need the calcium for their growing skeleton - this can be provided from other sources. Some children are allergic to dairy entirely. Before the age of 1 it can’t be substituted as they have no teeth to eat such substitutes, so milk is the ideal food.

My toddler hasn’t regularly drank milk since around 14 months - she eats plenty of high calcium foods, such as broccoli, bread, yoghurt & certain types of fish. She had a full vitamin and mineral test for an unrelated reason recently and came back with perfect scores for everything, no deficiency.

So I absolutely agree that before 1 it must be milk, preferably breast milk, but thereafter it’s more about fulfilling dietary requirements than specifically needing milk.

Gosh I really don’t want to Google bfing older children if I’m honest - perhaps have a look at threads on here for anecdotal? The bfing article regarding grown men in Africa was most definitely on the BBC news website. Sorry, if it wasn’t such a - strange - topic then I would lol.

@BlueberryLane

Actively following this thread. Great debate :)

Yes, Snappy is proving to be an interesting and rational sparring partner

I'm off to Google. Wish me luck. I too am slightly apprehensive of what I will find....

Let us know what you turn up Snappy!

So.... The oldest I can find (although admittedly during a pretty quick search) is still 8 years as a general rule, with very very rare exceptions (one being a British 9 year old). In some cultures (but very few) older children and adults do drink breastmilk, but not from the breast, just from a cup!

Although milk past 1 year old, is no longer the main part of the diet, it is still an important part of the diet. Physiologically, it is still a necessary requirement. So the point is, just because it is possible (but not usually recommended) to replace milk with only solid food sources, doesn't mean this is what SHOULD happen. Milk is nutritionally extremely dense and for this reason, is perfect for young mammals, first as their main food, then as part of their diet and as it tails off, as a supplement. Why should a woman stop giving her child age-appropriate and nutritionally perfect food, simply because others don't like the idea? Most women who stop breastfeeding after 1 will give their child dairy as part of their diet. You yourself have just said that you give yogurt! So of course, the best source of this milk requirement is from the mother.

The estimated or average age of natural term weaning IS relevant so that parents are aware of the age when milk/dairy products are beginning to be superfluous.

Once a baby is able to use a sippy cup for water, there's no reason they can't have breast milk from a sippy cup too. Breast feed at home and then express for a cup when out? Could that be a compromise? Not saying you have to compromise with people but might make your life easier if they are commenting constantly 🤷‍♀️

just because it is possible (but not usually recommended) to replace milk with only solid food sources, doesn't mean this is what SHOULD happen.

But again, why doesn’t this apply to ten year olds? Why is milk age appropriate when it continues to benefit as long as mum and child are happy to do it? Is cows milk better for a ten year old than human milk? Or even a 20 year old? Why supplement at all, why not just continue bfing?

@Realyorkshiretea

just because it is possible (but not usually recommended) to replace milk with only solid food sources, doesn't mean this is what SHOULD happen.

But again, why doesn’t this apply to ten year olds? Why is milk age appropriate when it continues to benefit as long as mum and child are happy to do it? Is cows milk better for a ten year old than human milk? Or even a 20 year old? Why supplement at all, why not just continue bfing?

For the reasons I've stated many times in my posts! There is an age where it's generally agreed by the experts that children still need milk. Older than this or as an adult? Nice but unnecessary.

@Somethingsnappy ‘nice but unnecessary’? You said you would find it strange, not nice. And ‘unnecessary’ is usually met with ‘Well do YOU only do things which are necessary?’ - so why is that a reason for older kids and adults? I guess we could go round in circles about it all day couldn’t we…

[quote Realyorkshiretea]@Somethingsnappy ‘nice but unnecessary’? You said you would find it strange, not nice. And ‘unnecessary’ is usually met with ‘Well do YOU only do things which are necessary?’ - so why is that a reason for older kids and adults? I guess we could go round in circles about it all day couldn’t we…[/quote]
Yes, true! I think I'll bow out now as we're both straying into the territory of repetition and while I have been enjoying our argument (for the most part ), it is at the expense of jobs I'm supposed to be doing. Including eating (yes, with milk in my tea... not my own ). But thank you for the great debate! And it all helps to raise awareness in this culture of these issues x

@Somethingsnappy most welcome. Thanks for a high quality and good faith debate! X

@FortunesFave

I know it's good for them but because we don't live in a third world country, it's also unnecessary. By 18 months children need solids and no longer need milk...they can have cow's milk and gain all the nutrients they need from that.

Loving relationships aren't dependent on breast feeding.

This is factually, medically and scientifically inaccurate.

Perhaps you should have a look on the world Heath organisation website and inform yourself a bit better.

Breastfeeding is beneficial for the health of children until 2 and beyond and those that are breastfed have life long health benefits.

It's great that we live in a rich country and thus have choices about how to feed babies and children. I support having choices but stop spouting out nonsense that you're clearly misinformed about.