Ex is covid testing our primary age kids in a car park on every pick up

[DKmamma]

A bit of background: My ex husband's new wife is extremely controlling, coercive and bullying towards him. The ex and I aren't the best of friends, but I do feel very sorry for him and still care about him as my kids' dad. Sounds pathetic, I know, but it is obviously an abusive relationship. He's a broken man.

Terrible situation, but one that he has chosen nonetheless, and whilst it has affected me financially (she insisted he override his consent order with the basic CMS amount) and has severely damaged my co-parenting relationship with their dad (she won't even let him speak to me), until now this wasn't particularly affecting my kids who, so far, she has been perfectly lovely to. It's something I'm keeping a very close eye on.

But the latest crazy thing they're doing IS affecting my kids, so I want to know if I have any power to stop it, legally....

He's moved 45 mins away from their school and picks them up every Wednesday and every other Friday. For the last 3 pickups he's driven them round the corner from school and parked up in a Co-op carpark where he's made them take a lateral flow test for Covid. They are 7 and 9 and the government aren't currently recommending testing on primary age kids, but this is obviously a condition of them being allowed back to his home.

I know this isn't harming them physically, but I worry about the psychological impact: My kids can go to cricket, ballet, brownies and school without being tested but they can't go to their dad and step mum's (neither of whom are shielding or vulnerable) without proving they haven't got Covid. Also: In a car-park??!! ....it's like they're dirty little street rats or something

My opinion is that it's physically uncomfortable for the kids, unpleasant and sends out a harmful message about their status in their dad's household. I've told him it's against my wishes and against government advice and have asked him to stop, but he's carrying on doing it

Is there anything I can do??? Even if this particular issue isn't the end of the world, I kinda want to flex a bit of muscle here to show them they're answerable to me when it comes to the kids and that whilst their own life is utterly crazy they can't just do any old irrational thing with my kids.

Have you asked what his plans are if the children test positive? He’d have been sat in the car with them to get to the testing car park, whilst testing and then a further 30 mins waiting for the result. He’d have to isolate until a PCR test (for the children) was taken and continue isolating unless the PCR test returned a negative result.

@ElderMillennial

Yes but if his partner is pregnant or there is some other issue which makes someone in the family vulnerable to covid (eg maybe she is caring for a relative who is vulnerable, I don't know) then they have to take that into account to. In those circumstances I think it is reasonable to take the children back to their mother's so as to protect his unborn child (if that's the position) but presumably he has been exposed by then so not sure how that works/

If she is pregnant or vulnerable it has to be sorted properly.

What would you think if a mother started testing her own children round the Co-op bins?

@CervixHaver

Why on EARTH are you allowing your children to be around a controlling, abusive and, in your words unhinged woman? Yes she may have been nice to them so far, but for how long?

I'd be temporarily suspending unsupervised contact until he gets rid of her

...because I can't do that legally, unfortunately. I believe all I can do is watch very closely and if they do anything towards the children that's significant enough for the courts to act on (and I hope they don't), take it to the courts at that stage. There's a huge difference between something significant enough for the courts to act on and something a mother is worried about though. That's the problem

To date they've been great with the kids, but I'm concerned their lunacy with each other (which is extreme I've been very worried about him) will seep into their behaviour towards and around the children and I do think this particular behaviour is weird... I believe it's just another stick for her to beat him with ...but is it weird enough for legal intervention? Perhaps not. I was hoping there was some way I could get them to factor my opinions in to how they are with the kids, in order to prevent things from escalating and protect the kids.

If anything else happens I'll speak to a solicitor. At this stage I'm just watching like a hawk.

I'm not putting any of this concern onto my kids, of course. They aren't aware of any issues and we have an open relationship where we can chat about their dad's house in a friendly and breezy way. They do enjoy seeing their dad.

xx

That's not the point I was responding to @TheQueef

@2019user44

Simplifying this from a legal perspective, you both have PR and he is subjecting the children to testing that you deem to be unnecessary. If you think the children are not affected by it (apologies haven’t read the whole post) probably just make your objections known in writing, just in case he does anything else strange and let it be. If you think they are being affected by it, write to him and confirm that if he does not stop testing you will apply to the court under the Children Act1989 for a prohibited steps order to prevent the testing taking place. Make it clear that as far as you’re aware neither he or his wife are shielding. Make it clear you’re not wanting to stop contact, but this is not fair to the children. If he then still continues, then apply to the court for a prohibited steps order. The Court will then have to determine whether this is reasonable

Thank you!! This is great advice. Much appreciated.

So for the entire year of Covid he hasn’t bothered about testing, this is just a “on the last 3 visits” thing?

I’d ignore @2019user44 advice though. No court is going to accept that application.

I’m a family lawyer, they would accept the application subject to the amount of testing and impact on the children. I didn’t appreciate it had only been 3 times though so if that is the case it is a bit different .

@ElderMillennial

I can understand you are looking out for your children but you sound quite spiteful towards the ex and I agree with PPs who say you don't know their situation or why they may be particularly nervous about covid.

I worry about him tremendously and I'm nervous about her behaviour. It's rather unfair to call that spite. I'm a mum who's concerned for her children in a horrible situation.

They've had shared custody of the children throughout the pandemic and I'm aware they've broken the rules themselves on a few occasions, including recently, so if they are particularly nervous about Covid it only seems to be with regards to the children.

There may be something I don't know about - but if I don't know about it how can I be sympathetic to it? In the meantime, I'm naturally going to protective of my kids. Or spiteful. However you want to word it

@2019user44

I’m a family lawyer, they would accept the application subject to the amount of testing and impact on the children. I didn’t appreciate it had only been 3 times though so if that is the case it is a bit different .

Thank you. Yes, it only started since they had access to the rapid test kits (which they applied for for their own use). It's only been 3 times so far, but it's twice a week. His next pickup is on Wednesday and it will happen again then.

I actually can’t believe there are people on here who wouldn’t be bothered about this.

The woman is clearly exercising her control. This is absolutely obvious because throughout the pandemic the kids have gone back and forth with no issue, there is no vulnerability or shielding factor and they are letting the kids into the car to test them which means that the dad would already be exposed anyway. So it can’t really be about minimising risk. There is barely any risk to them and he’s exposing himself anyway.

Why is he not performing the tests before they get into the car then? Just do it by the side of the road outside the school? BECAUSE ITS FUCKING INSANE that’s why. Because he knows everyone would look at him like WTAF!??????!!!

There has never been any restrictions on children going between parental homes. She has NO basis for testing them.

You are quite right in that it sends a message to the kids about their place in their dads home. Of course you wouldn’t send a child if you knew they had covid but as parents you accept that there is a risk when they are moving between and it’s part and parcel of the parenting job.

This is bullshit and yes they are answerable to the main carer. He has them once a week and EOW by the looks of it - so not 50/50. OP is the RP by the sounds of it so why shouldn’t she say this is absolutely mental and detrimental to the kids relationship with their dad.

OP there really isn’t anything I can see that you can do other than watch them very closely - as you are doing and ensure your kids know they can tell you anything. At the first show of her batshit behaviour being aimed at them id be crushing her like the fucked up little pest she clearly is.

OP, you called the ex coercive and controlling and bullying but you don't like if a negative adjective is used about the way you have expressed yourself.

You have asked for opinions and you have got them.

We can only go on what you say as we don't know the other side of the story.

My point was, if it is the ex who has initiated this, she may have a reason. No you don't know it and there could be a reason for that too but maybe don't call her names for it especially as you clearly don't like being judged

@ConfusedAdultFemale

So for the entire year of Covid he hasn’t bothered about testing, this is just a “on the last 3 visits” thing?

Yes. They've recently applied for the test kits for their own use and are using them on the kids. He says they're testing themselves too (but of course they're allowed in the door of their home before performing their own tests).

@Ohpulltheotherone

I actually can’t believe there are people on here who wouldn’t be bothered about this.

The woman is clearly exercising her control. This is absolutely obvious because throughout the pandemic the kids have gone back and forth with no issue, there is no vulnerability or shielding factor and they are letting the kids into the car to test them which means that the dad would already be exposed anyway. So it can’t really be about minimising risk. There is barely any risk to them and he’s exposing himself anyway.

Why is he not performing the tests before they get into the car then? Just do it by the side of the road outside the school? BECAUSE ITS FUCKING INSANE that’s why. Because he knows everyone would look at him like WTAF!??????!!!

There has never been any restrictions on children going between parental homes. She has NO basis for testing them.

You are quite right in that it sends a message to the kids about their place in their dads home. Of course you wouldn’t send a child if you knew they had covid but as parents you accept that there is a risk when they are moving between and it’s part and parcel of the parenting job.

This is bullshit and yes they are answerable to the main carer. He has them once a week and EOW by the looks of it - so not 50/50. OP is the RP by the sounds of it so why shouldn’t she say this is absolutely mental and detrimental to the kids relationship with their dad.

OP there really isn’t anything I can see that you can do other than watch them very closely - as you are doing and ensure your kids know they can tell you anything. At the first show of her batshit behaviour being aimed at them id be crushing her like the fucked up little pest she clearly is.

Thank you. That's absolutely what she's doing and not for the first time, but it's the first time she's used the kids (that I know of). Hence my wanting to take a stand.

I think your best bet here is to ask what the plan is in the event of a positive test. Explaining of course that if it's on his watch he would also have to test himself and self isolate for 10 days with the kids. Kids go through worse things than a covid test, it's what happens in the event of a positive I'd want to know.

@2019user44 are you in Scotland at all? Neighbours court case here agreed testing children before going to NRP’s home was a good idea despite NRP not being vulnerable/shielding etc. Neighbour is extremely angry over it.

@DKmamma if it’s only happened 3 times I would wait and see how it plays out. Is there a contact order in place for children to see their dad?

No court order. Just an agreed rota.

He has them 2 nights/wk on average and his CMS payment is based on that.

If there’s no court order then I’d request mediation or something similar. It’s impossible to co-parent if he refuses to communicate with you at all. I’m not suggesting you stop the children seeing them, that could do a lot more damage to them that testing if they’ve a close relationship with him, but you’ve clearly got justifiable worries over his contact with them. I’d also ignore my previous message to ignore 2019, if they’re a family lawyer their advice is a lot more relevant than any anyone else could give

Christ, typos sorry!

@ConfusedAdultFemale

If there’s no court order then I’d request mediation or something similar. It’s impossible to co-parent if he refuses to communicate with you at all. I’m not suggesting you stop the children seeing them, that could do a lot more damage to them that testing if they’ve a close relationship with him, but you’ve clearly got justifiable worries over his contact with them. I’d also ignore my previous message to ignore 2019, if they’re a family lawyer their advice is a lot more relevant than any anyone else could give

That's good advice. Thanks :-)

The biggest issue here is consent.

I'm not talking about yours or his;I'm talking about the children's.If they don't want to do thé lateral flow tests and there's no medical basis for them then he shouldn't be forcing them to do it.

I can well imagine when your children become secondary school aged and start to ask questions and voice their own opinions Bat shit crazy step mum won't be as keen to have them around.

Thanks. Other than being a bit confused, they're very compliant about it. Probably because he's told them it's to keep them safe.

Yes you can legally prevent access if you're concerned for your children's welfare. They may not be physically harming the children or being abusive, but what they're doing is causing psychological harm.

Also, you're telling me that there's a controlling & abusive marriage at play yet the children are not witnessing nor experiencing anything?
I was raised in a household like this and believe me, that's extremely difficult for me to believe - I know what it's like to be around! Sitting on the stairs whilst your parents are trying their best to hush their voices whilst they argue

I can well imagine. They're not aware of it yet, but they've only lived with her since Christmas. I'm making sure they keep talking to me about dad's house.

So if he refuses to communicate with you, that means you have to communicate with her regarding the children? Have you not had it out with her about this?? I'd have lost it with her by now! (No, I don't mean physically, before someone tries to imply that!)