Breast is best - no it’s not actually.

[bubblesforlife]

I’m a new mom, my baby was born last weekend.
I followed feeding guidelines, listened to professional advice, and decided to breast feed my baby.

A few days in, my baby has developed jaundice and low sodium. This is due to dehydration and no fluids.

I gave my Baby colostrum, by breast and syringe regularly.

I asked my visiting midwife if I should supplement feeding with formula until my milk came in, she said no I am doing the best by my baby. Not unless there is a clinical need.

Now we’re readmitted for 2 nights minimum and placed on as strict baby formula feeding plan.

2 other ladies in the ward also have dehydrated babies for the same reason as me. How does this happen all the time yet no one talks about it?

Breast is best? No. Starve your baby until your milk comes in, and then hope for the best that you’re on for the lucky ones it works for.

My milk came in on day 3, a normal timeline.!

The messaging is wrong to mothers. This is so very common according to hospital.

Breast is best..... eventually.... but feed your baby what it needs, if that’s a supplement of formula, so what.

I don’t know what I’m trying to say, but I’m just so upset. No one told me I was starving my little newborn. I did my best, I tried so hard and sat there filling syringes of colostrum.

Something has to change here. The pressure placed on new mothers throughout pregnancy to breast feed is wrong.

I hope my baby recovers soon so we can go home and be a family.

Yes OP yes! You're so right

[quote Suzi888]@Cleverpolly3 YES a midwife did say this. Because it happened to be true, my friend was not producing enough milk and WAS starving her baby.
So you’d report a midwife for advising you that you weren’t producing enough milk? so what should my friend have done? Carried on starving her child?![/quote]
If any of the many midwives I’ve had had accused me of starving my child because I was trying to establish breastfeeding then yes I would report them

Lots of midwives know fuck all about breastfeeding

@mouldyhouse101

Yes OP yes! You're so right

Yeah of course

@Cleverpolly3

Christ, how dare someone think differently to you!
Put them down. Burn them at the stake!

Breast is best..... eventually
Right so you said it yourself. It is the best.
Obviously if your baby loses what clinicians decide as too much weight then yes, feed formula. Then go back to breastmilk

Your story is the same as mine and I did have to top up expressed milk with formula as we were put on a feeding plan.
But this is a short term solution and of course breastmilk is best, even formula companies say that. 🤷

OP, it sounds so traumatic- I’m sorry you’ve been through this. I think the main problem is a lot of posters and buzzwords, but no real actual help to support new mothers.

My 4 were all jaundiced but not dehydrated.

In response to other posters:
When I had my first (twins), they cried a lot as I took them in turns to feed them. A midwife told me I was starving them. It was incredibly hurtful and untrue.

Fuck me, there’s a hell of a lot of paediatricians on MN tonight...... apparently.

Congrats on your new baby @bubblesforlife. Do whatever works for you. I really hope you are both able to go home soon x

[quote mouldyhouse101]@Cleverpolly3

Christ, how dare someone think differently to you!
Put them down. Burn them at the stake![/quote]
OK

@TaVeryMuchLove

Fuck me, there’s a hell of a lot of paediatricians on MN tonight...... apparently.

Congrats on your new baby @bubblesforlife. Do whatever works for you. I really hope you are both able to go home soon x

That’s facile Yes do whatever works for you but don’t spout a load of ill informed incorrect shit in the process

I really hope you are both doing well and are able to forget about this horrible experience. I was consumed with guilt when bf didn't work out with ds1. He too had jaundice and I was then too worried to continue bfeeding after this. With ds2, I gave him a little bit of formula the night he was born but kept pumping and syringe feeding. It made me feel so much more relaxed and happy knowing his tummy was full. I know this goes against guidelines but it worked for us and i still bf now (he's 2 1/2!)

I agree. After my first 2 sections and milk taking ages I ended up giving formula a few times. DD2 was huge (10lb 4oz) and dehydrated and I had to bargain with them and sign something to say I was happy to give a bottle of formula! I ended up successfully BFing for 9 months. DD3 didn't have the same issues but she was pretty small.

@FTEngineerM

Establishing breastfeeding should be treated as a full time job in the first few weeks.

Totally agree with this !!! You cannot do anything else for weeks, having domestic support is key. You can’t be worried about washing/cleaning/food/other children whilst trying to feed a newborn. Takes a village and all that.

I exclusuvely breast fed both of mine and they gained weight very well but barr a few hours in the evening very early on, I know I definitely didn't sit under either of them for hours on end and it most definitely was not the only thing I did. I did housework, cooked dinners, in fact with both of mine I was doing college courses and assignments as well. My point is not to sound smug, it's just if I was wavering about breastfeeding, this notion that I would/could fo little else for weeks, even months on end would scare me off completely. It might be like that of course, but it might not either if you had an experience like mine, and incidentally many others I know.

@theleafandnotthetree I think you're right to point this out. When I had my second, DH was back at work very quickly, doing 12hr shifts (only had a week off and 3 of those, I was in labour) and I had a school run to do, a relative to care for and a house to run as well as a 4yr old to look after. If I'd been trapped under a baby constantly, it would not have been possible. Bfing was hard work at times and had to be prioritised but I could do that by strapping DS into the sling and cracking on while he fed.

It can be a bugger to establish, but not being able to do anything else for weeks as a sweeping generalisation is a bit of a reach.

@ShowOfHands, absolutely. What some suggests as the necessary regime of non stop breastfeeding and little else would surely preclude most people from breastfeeding second and subsequent children because the business of life has to be gotten on with. The breastfeeding has to be prioritised but also fit in around other things. And all those other things are also what kept me sane and happy the first few months, even had I been able to, I think my mental health would have suffered greatly from just sitting there endlessly with other people doing things around me. I think the point I am making is that for me at least, and I can only speak for myself, I managed to breastfeed, have thriving babies, somewhat of a routine and a life. I loosely followed Gina Ford, but I fully expect to now loose all credibility!

Your ejection from MN will occur in 3....2...1....

@ShowOfHands 🤣

OP the same thing happened to me. DD was a big baby but then lost a lot of weight and was sent for a blood test which showed low sodium. We were readmitted to the postnatal ward, I pumped and fed round the clock because I really believed bf would work but my milk never "came in" in the way I hear other people describe.

She then became very lethargic and wouldn't feed at all - from me or a bottle - so had an NG tube taking a mix of expressed and formula milk. Most of it came back up after each feed but thank goodness she started to keep it down and gain weight again.

I had so much support from the hospital staff and breastfeeding experts that week. We did end up mix feeding for 8 months because of their help and advice. In the couple of days I was there originally I never even knew there was so much support available but I don't know if that would have changed things as I just never seemed to produce enough milk (had related issues with DS too).

I'm all for encouraging bf but it is true that it doesn't work for everyone, and ultimately babies primarily need to be fed.

Wow. I think my first was something like 4 months when I first cobbled together a quick pasta bake. They'd both scream blue murder if I ever tried to put either of them down for the first 10 weeks or so. I had to wait until my first was old enough to be left to her own devices for a bit before I could have a second.

@theleafandnotthetree it’s a fair point to make and I’m glad it worked out that way for you. There should ideally be balance in the information given. For some women it will be straightforward, for others it could be very time consuming and require extra help.

My baby is now 8 weeks old and feeds beautifully. It doesn’t take hours and I can get on with plenty of other things in between feeds. But for the first month or so it really did consume me. His latch was very poor, I had inverted nipples, he was jaundiced, and he has terrible reflux so he was fussy and thew up a lot. I was also in recovery from a c-section and severe blood loss. I was absolutely determined to persevere with breastfeeding; I knew it was the right thing for him, and that if we could just get it established we would reap the rewards for months to come. The reason I was able to do that was because of my husband and MIL, who between them covered absolutely all cooking and cleaning, and a lot of the baby care that wasn’t feeding. Without that support I’m not sure we would have made it to the point we’re at now, where feeding is easy and enjoyable.

That’s why I believe that if we went breastfeeding rates to improve, and for more mothers who want to be able to breastfeed to be successful in doing so, we need to acknowledge that for some women it’s going to take a lot of external support in those early weeks.

@KatyClaire. Agreed, I think the point is that it is a very individual thing and you don't necessarily know how it's going to pan out for you, or not. A bit like the birth plans I hear people talking about..... While it's important to go in knowing the challenges, the need for support in the first few weeks etc, I think that needs to be balanced with stories and experience - which are also real - if where it went well and didn't involve any or even some of what's described here. Rates of breastfeeding are low enough without scaring the living daylights completely out of prospective mothers. As with a lot of things, I actually think if you go in to it with a confident 'I got this' attitude, it at least helps and being tense or scared is certainly not conducive to good milk supply

I don't think breastfeeding is the issue. I think lack of breastfeeding support is the issue.

For something so "natural", it can actually be very, very difficult for a lot of women. But with support, it can work brilliantly.

I'm very sorry you and your baby have ended up in hospital. But please don't think you were "starving" him. Colostrum really is all they need until your milk comes in.....sometimes jaundice just happens. Particularly in the winter as they need sunlight to flush it out.

Ideally, you would have had support to try and get your baby as much sunlight as possible and yes, probably some formula. Some formula to help get the jaundice under control and then support with the breastfeeding, as it sounds like you were doing really well.

I'm sorry. It sounds to me like you have been let down a bit with support. Please don't blame yourself. And please do crack on with the breastfeeding, it sounds like you are doing great. And there is nothing wrong with topping up with some formula.

I hope you are out of hospital soon.

@Cleverpolly3 - ill informed, incorrect shit?

Er ok. Don’t think you understood my post. That’s ok.

There has to be more nuance and support around mix feeding. It doesn’t have to be either or. Breastfeeding didn’t work for me(miserable 2 weeks with my first who was starving). Went straight to formula and expressing for my second. I know so many people who have mixed fed in some way. I have friends who breastfed for long periods but had a formula bottle for one feed from early on, others who supplemented after poor feeds, others who exclusively expressed. All who fell out of the ‘norm’ and didn’t get that much useful advice.

I think all women should be given more information when they are pregnant about feeding options. I strongly believe that if there was more information provided about breastfeeding and formula fewer people would feel guilt and shame about their feeding choice.

My attitude going into it was I would give breastfeeding a go but if I didn’t like it switch to formula. My mum hated bf and I was formula fed so I was half expecting it to be really difficult and to pack it in after a few days.

I was lucky enough to get really good bf information through private antenatal classes and from a relative who is a bf counsellor so I knew what was normal and how to tell if baby was ok. So many women don’t get this support and I acknowledge I’m really privileged to have had it.

The support I got in hospital was completely crap and if that’s all I’d had I’m sure I would have given up in the early days. So many midwives know F all about breastfeeding and their dodgy advice negatively affects women’s breastfeeding experience.

I think because so many of our mums and grans didn’t breastfeed we’ve lost a lot of the community type support which exists in other countries. So few women breastfeed in this country that peer support is hard to come by and is a bit of a postcode lottery.

I strongly believe every woman has the right to feed their baby as they choose (in my mind just not wanting to bf is a good enough reason to not do it because I respect people’s bodily autonomy) I equally strongly believe that women who WANT to breastfeed should be supported to do so. For me breastfeeding has been a wonderful and emotional experience and it makes me so cross that women who want that miss out because there isn’t support for them there to do it.

Trite phrases like “breast is best” and “fed is best” don’t do anything apart from pit women against each other. The NHS is pro breastfeeding until they actually have to do anything to support it (a systematic underfunding issue rather than issues with individual staff in the main). I’ve seen people get better support on Facebook than in hospital which is just crazy.

If we need a phrase it should be “informed is best” because different feeding choices are appropriate for different families and all everything else does is make people feel shame, defensive and judged. I’ve definitely been judged for breastfeeding and “making a rod for my own back” with my bottle refusing 6 month old so you can’t win either way!

The NHS is pro breastfeeding until they actually have to do anything to support it (a systematic underfunding issue rather than issues with individual staff in the main).

I could not agree with this more strongly.

I remember being in hospital after three nights, absolutely on my knees with misery and being told that I would have to stay another night if my baby’s feeding hadn’t improved. Never mind that I hadn’t slept in 6 days, that I was so tired I was hallucinating, that I was scared to hold my baby in case I dropped him from sheer exhaustion, that I wasn’t being told how to improve his latch or keep him awake long enough to feed, that nobody was assisting me with the mucous preventing him from nursing comfortably, that I was all alone with no visitors, that I would have discharged myself without further care if necessary rather than stay there another night. If I had had to choose between breastfeeding and leaving hospital that day, leaving would have won. And the only reason I didn’t have to make that choice was because I had so much family support. It’s not good enough that women are pressured to feed without the corresponding support.