Breast is best - no it’s not actually.

[bubblesforlife]

I’m a new mom, my baby was born last weekend.
I followed feeding guidelines, listened to professional advice, and decided to breast feed my baby.

A few days in, my baby has developed jaundice and low sodium. This is due to dehydration and no fluids.

I gave my Baby colostrum, by breast and syringe regularly.

I asked my visiting midwife if I should supplement feeding with formula until my milk came in, she said no I am doing the best by my baby. Not unless there is a clinical need.

Now we’re readmitted for 2 nights minimum and placed on as strict baby formula feeding plan.

2 other ladies in the ward also have dehydrated babies for the same reason as me. How does this happen all the time yet no one talks about it?

Breast is best? No. Starve your baby until your milk comes in, and then hope for the best that you’re on for the lucky ones it works for.

My milk came in on day 3, a normal timeline.!

The messaging is wrong to mothers. This is so very common according to hospital.

Breast is best..... eventually.... but feed your baby what it needs, if that’s a supplement of formula, so what.

I don’t know what I’m trying to say, but I’m just so upset. No one told me I was starving my little newborn. I did my best, I tried so hard and sat there filling syringes of colostrum.

Something has to change here. The pressure placed on new mothers throughout pregnancy to breast feed is wrong.

I hope my baby recovers soon so we can go home and be a family.

OP 100% agree with you however you end up feeding your baby, so long as they're fed, happy and healthy that's what matters. I find that the pressure placed on new mums to ebf so tough, I bf for 6 weeks and my supply still never came in. I was pumping all the time or trying to feed her, feeling guilty she wasnt gaining. I was told to limit top ups to ensure my supply would increase in the end we switched to formula feeding and the contrast was like day and night, in one week she gained 11oz when she was either maintaining below birth weight or adding 1 oz at a time previously. Personally I think women should be supported to feed however they choose to.

I think breastfeeding can be a wonderful and beautiful experience, and I am sure I would have loved it had it have gone well but my own experience wasnt and if I had another I'd nip it in the bud straight away rather than spend weeks trudging on with a screaming crying baby bouncing back and forth to the drs or to weigh ins. Congratulations on your new baby

Perhaps it is not discussed frequently so as not to scare new mothers into thinking that breast feeding is not enough. When a new born it's crying and cluster feeding it is very easy to think that you do not have enough milk. If I had been warned in advance that there was a small chance of dehydration which could lead to more serious complications then I might have not had faith in exclusively breastfeeding. The midwives and health visitors are trained to look for these rare complications and if they occur the baby is then treated accordingly.

I don't agree with withholding information on breastfeeding to avoid putting new mums off. With high rates of initiation and then it falling to a quarter it's obviously not a good strategy.

I can't remember who said informed is best but I agree. New mothers aren't children who shouldn't be told things for their own good. Women need realistic expectations for breastfeeding even if some of it sounds difficult.

mums that supplement with formula during the first few weeks of baby's life tend to then breastfeed for longer than those who don't

I've read this too, but the research went on to say it's not causal as such - it's more that having an all or nothing attitude at the beginning can set you up for a narrative of success vs failure, whereas having a more relaxed attitude towards feeding tends to lead to more flexibility and a relaxed attitude in general. You see it in the "fabled Sweden" :o - lots of mums supplement in the early days yet they are quoted as having one of the highest BF rates in the world, probably because giving formula is properly supported and not seen as automatically ending BF. As well as BF not being as exhausting/all-consuming if mums believe that they are perfectly fine to have the odd feed off without having to express etc.

There was a similar situation in parts of the US where certain ethnic populations would routinely top up with formula in the early days, and (typically White) lactation consultants were coming in strong with a campaign for exclusive breastfeeding, believing that the top ups would lead to the end of breastfeeding, as they can tend to in the white population. This then caused a decline in breastfeeding in those populations because what they were doing was actually working fine for them, as they had a supportive BF culture overall of which the early top ups were simply part of a bigger picture.

It turns out that it's not the introduction of formula itself which can cause problems with breastfeeding, but general attitudes towards the introduction of formula and how it's handled in general.

I'm really looking forward to the Lucy Ruddle book on mixed feeding and have pre-ordered it.

While I believe its relevant for HIV positive mothers in parts of the world I also wonder how helpful the EBF push is. Surely a small formula top up is just the modern equivalent of an established breastfeeding member of the household giving the odd feed to tide them over until mums milk has come in? If breastmilk is so important why isn't their more effort to provide donor milk for top ups?

That's what the care pathway is there for. Mum raises concerns, health care professionals review and intervene appropriately.

Not really sure what the problem is.

Bashing breastfeeding due to not having enough information on breastfeeding is a bit odd. Rather bash your antenatal classes or midwife for not providing you with the needed information.

It’s the babies demand that created the milk, it was expected for me. It actually took DS1 and me a full month to get established but it was amazing once we had both got the knack. Then just got more efficient over the year.

Formula might effect the demand which in turn would effect milk production

@bubblesforlife

I’m sorry you are going through this, it sounds very very stressful and sadly avoidable.

My nephew was born recently and my sisters milk didn’t come in so baby lost 11% of weight and she was told by health professionals to top up with formula after every feed. Within a week his weight was fine and 7 months later they are now EBF. I also mixed fed mine from day 1.

I’m sorry you’ve not been supported better.

The "exclusively breastfed" baby label has become toxic.

In what way? I only ever see it on here when women are giving relevant information when asking for advice. You will be given different advice and responses to a query if your baby is EBF rather than FF. I don’t see how an informative label is toxic?

Something that I think is really relevant is the level of support actually available in the community for breastfeeding. It’s absolutely true that most women (not all) could breastfeed if properly supported, but often that support simply isn’t there.

I was kept in hospital for 3 days to ensure feeding was established and it was hell. The ward was so hot and noisy, I was totally unable to sleep and exhausted and anxious the whole time. The midwives wanted to keep me in for a fourth night and I totally broke down and said I would discharge myself if that happened. What made the difference for me was having virtually full time support at home from my mother in law, who was a midwife. She came every day and helped me with the latch, with chores etc so I could focus just on feeding, with giving me a break from my baby in between feeds so I could rest. This was invaluable, and is absolutely the main reason we were able to establish breastfeeding successfully. But very few women are lucky enough to have that support, and there simply isn’t community provision of it unless you can pay for a lactation consultant (and even then they will only help with the technical side, not the need to be able to focus exclusively on feeding and rest).

One of the women in my antenatal group gave up breastfeeding because it would have meant staying another night in hospital when her baby was born. I honestly don’t blame her - post natal wards are hell on Earth! But she likely could have persevered and succeeded (as she wanted to) if she had been supported at home.

Establishing breastfeeding should be treated as a full time job in the first few weeks. Cluster feeding, sitting up all night, feeding on demand etc will all eventually ensure a good supply (except in rare but real cases where there is a medical / physiological issue), but are exhausting and time consuming. If you have to look after older children, have sole or majority care of all your baby’s other needs, run a house, cook and clean, etc., you’re much less likely to be able to do it. And that can leave women with feelings of failure, as they think they could have done it if they had just tried harder. But you can’t draw from an empty well, and without proper support it’s just going to be too much for many women.

I would love to see the kind of support I had from my MIL available more widely. I think it would make a significant difference to breastfeeding rates.

@BertieBotts that was exactly my point, you just made it better, thanks
A more relaxed and less judgemental attitude towards formula benefits those who want to keep breastfeeding for longer, as it takes away the pressure and it makes it more manageable. Haven't heard of this book but really curious now. I'm planning to mix feed from the beginning this time (I'm due in a few weeks) and hoping it will go well. If not, I'm more than happy to formula feed, as that's how my two year old was fed and she couldn't be any more perfect

Establishing breastfeeding should be treated as a full time job in the first few weeks.

Totally agree with this !!! You cannot do anything else for weeks, having domestic support is key. You can’t be worried about washing/cleaning/food/other children whilst trying to feed a newborn. Takes a village and all that.

That's pretty much the first thing I tell people I know who are thinking about breastfeeding a first child, that you may not have time for any cooking or housework for the first few months. My DH sucked it up but I imagine many don't

I had no idea of the hours I'd be tethered to the sofa with breastfeeding and it was a real shock. I suspect a lot of people saying things like "my milk wasn't enough, he wouldn't settle, he was a different baby on formula" are actually describing normal breastfed behaviour rather than low milk supply.

I suspect a lot of people saying things like "my milk wasn't enough, he wouldn't settle, he was a different baby on formula" are actually describing normal breastfed behaviour rather than low milk supply.

I think so too - and it’s no woman’s fault if she thinks this, because there is very little information around which warns of just how time consuming and labour intensive it can be. I understand that the NHS doesn’t want to discourage women from trying by talking about how hard it is, but I think women could be better prepared for and less anxious about those early weeks if there was better information about what they’re actually like.

@SnuggyBuggy

That's pretty much the first thing I tell people I know who are thinking about breastfeeding a first child, that you may not have time for any cooking or housework for the first few months. My DH sucked it up but I imagine many don't

I had no idea of the hours I'd be tethered to the sofa with breastfeeding and it was a real shock. I suspect a lot of people saying things like "my milk wasn't enough, he wouldn't settle, he was a different baby on formula" are actually describing normal breastfed behaviour rather than low milk supply.

In hindsight that was probably my reason why I couldn’t get established with BF. We had no family help around us. My H at the time went back to work and his sleep was important to him. There was no way I could have spent weeks just sitting on the sofa feeding my baby. Lack of support then led to years of resentment on my behalf and ultimately divorce.

I’m sure there are lots of breastfeeding mothers on here saying they are not sure how common this situation is. To be honest I had 3 friends in a group of 8 who were readmitted and this was in pre pandemic times. I think the lack of support and staying in hospital less after birth will contribute to it being more common rather than less. I think only those who have given birth and solely breastfed with little support and a short initial hospital stay after birth forced on them rather than by choice should get to comment.

This happened to my friend too OP. Her midwife said thank goodness you are stopping (trying to breast feed) because you are starving your baby, but I’m not allowed to tell you to stop. Her baby was also very sick. I think it’s shocking.

@Suzi888

This happened to my friend too OP. Her midwife said thank goodness you are stopping (trying to breast feed) because you are starving your baby, but I’m not allowed to tell you to stop. Her baby was also very sick. I think it’s shocking.

Midwives don’t say this sort of shit and if they do they should be struck off

If any of my midwifes had said this to me I would have reported them immediately.

*midwives that should be

I had no idea of the hours I'd be tethered to the sofa with breastfeeding and it was a real shock. I suspect a lot of people saying things like "my milk wasn't enough, he wouldn't settle, he was a different baby on formula" are actually describing normal breastfed behaviour rather than low milk supply.

I think drawing attention to the lack of support many new mum's get is helpful but I am don't think this is right. Even when we moved to formula, I spent hours tethered to the sofa. Each feed was an hour minimum and there were easily 8 a day. When I was trying to breastfeed, each feed could go on for 3 hours and the baby could not keep awake but neither could tolerate stopping feeding as she was so hungry. We could be tethered to the sofa for 15+ hours a day. This was not short-term so not just a settling down or supply improving. My OH was actually very supportive but he also had to earn money to keep the roof over our head so there were obviously stresses associated with this.

I take a lot of meds for various illnesses and I do wonder whether we down play the impact on mill production of that kind of a factor. It's important to be realistic about how many hours of work breastfeeding is but also realistic about assessing when things have gone beyond that.

Establishing breastfeeding should be treated as a full time job in the first few weeks.

As above, I like where this is coming from but as most full time work is only 40 hours a week, BF is actually for many more like having 3 FT jobs at the same time.

Here's the link to the book, it's only able to pre-order on Kindle for now, but should get a pre-order for paper copies at some point.

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08VC4WFDG?fbclid=IwAR25dedoZM5cS0qIsubt6sXZvBcHas3PFNzOciOYr7hcvADYREwg2G7rfUo&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

@Cleverpolly3 YES a midwife did say this. Because it happened to be true, my friend was not producing enough milk and WAS starving her baby.
So you’d report a midwife for advising you that you weren’t producing enough milk? so what should my friend have done? Carried on starving her child?!

Midwives are just people - the majority of them probably formula feed just as the majority of the population do. I’ve had 2 kids and didn’t get any useful advice or support from midwives with breastfeeding either time. It’s a tiny part of their training and it’s a real shame.