DD told she wasn’t a big girl at pre school

[Thereluctantstepmother]

My DD (nearly 4) is very well behaved.

Today she came home from pre-school a bit sad telling me that she had put her hairband around the tap and her pre school manager had told her that this wasn’t a big girl thing to do.

DD has spent a long time avoiding being told off (she tells me that she never wants to get told off) and today was one of the first times. DD pulled a confused face and her pre-school manager said “that isn’t a big girl face”.

I am feeling really triggered by this which is why I’m running past you all before I act because I’m a bit blurred by my own emotional response.

I’m completely happy for DD to be picked up on unwanted behaviours but I really detest the way it was framed as her ‘not being a big girl’ because... she’s not a big girl!

I told DD that at least she now knows that’s she’s not allowed to do that and she won’t do it again. I told her that all different people and places have different rules so I understand why she said she felt confused. We had lots of cuddles and she seems to have moved on.

But I still don’t feel happy with her being told she’s not a big girl, it’s as though she’s being shamed for not knowing a very nuanced rule.

When I first dropped DD off today (before this happened) the manager said that DD had been in a “funny mood” with her lately which I thought was an odd thing to say. DD is aware that this manager tells children off and I think she’s quite cautious of her.

Do you think I should just leave it or say something to her?

Thanks for reading.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy - I agree. And there was absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. Completely appropriate for the child’s age.

The fact the OP has been ‘triggered’ by such & is debating whether to go and speak to her ‘about what she said’ makes me feel so sad for anyone working with children; the majority of whom are paid minimum wage, and are absolutely fantastic, and have enough shit to deal with tbh. It shocks me that this is even a big deal to someone.

Looks like it was an overreaction from both you and her school teacher.

I do use that "big girl" talk with my DDs, when they learn how to do something new (clean themsleves after using the toilet) or when they are regressing (does a 4 year old really need to be spoon fed?! ). In that situation it would have been fine to just say "we don't do that", your child would have understood

@lolsurro

Honestly, such an overreaction! Maybe she didn't want to be negative but also wanted to reinforce that it's not allowed. How can you seriously be bothered by this?!

It’s a perfectly understandable reaction given OP’s background of a brutally traumatic childhood. It’s incredibly difficult for someone who’s had a deeply distressing experience in childhood to be balanced about perceived difficult things that affect their children. It’s a skill that has to be practised over and over and it slowly gets easier. OP was absolutely right to ask here, to gain a different perspective. There’s absolutely no shame in getting the balance of things a little bit wrong here and there in raising one’s children, and asking for advice as well as considering all sides of the situation including her child’s feelings as well as her own motivations shows that OP is certainly doing a much better job of parenting than her parents ever did.

In the kindest way OP you are overthinking this.

This is not a big thing. I imagine she likes being referred to as one of the "big" children. My pre-schoolers do. "Wow you are such a big girl now doing your coat up" that sort of thing.

Perhaps she could have said "we don't do that" but its not as if she called her stupid. I wouldn't worry about it.

I said "No" instead of "stop" today. Nobody is perfect.

She wasn't told she wasn't a big girl, she was told some aspects of her behaviour weren't what would be exhibited by a big girl. That's totally different.

Oh and ours sometimes put things around or under the tap to make the water spray out...that will make you forget the proper wording for things!

It’s difficult for practitioners to know what to say as everyone parents different. What you might prefer them to say, another parent might not want them to say?

There are lots of worse things the manager could have said imo.
Assume that dd is PFB.
In my experience, you can't rely totally on the child being able to remember all that happened.
OK you are not completely happy based on your dds version of events, but perhaps you would also have been unhappy if your dd had come home without her hairband.

Also there is a big difference interacting with a child in a one-to-one setting and in a pre-school where the workers will have small groups to look after.

This thread is genuinely very enlightening!

OP my mum was quite like you - had quite a traumatic childhood and so was over-vigilant to anything she felt was along similar lines. I had a lovely, gentle upbringing but was always very, very upset at the thought of being told off or disapproved of in any way. It's something I've had to learn to cope better with in adulthood in order to get out of people-pleasing patterns which left me without much voice.

I also massively struggle with boundaries even with my own children because I feel as though telling them off or being told something is wrong is such an awful thing for them that I struggle to do it except when absolutely necessary. I actually know intellectually that it shouldn't be, especially when phrased in a neutral/information giving way (such as "your hairband needs to stay in your hair or your pocket") but I still have a very strong emotional fear reaction that is hard to get past, and especially to anything which has a shaming/moral connotation.

This thread had actually been a bit of a revelation to me to see how most people have a totally different expectation/understanding around a child being told off, that it's a very mild thing, not supposed to be something awful or horrible at all. (I always thought that was the point )

@HollyandIvyandallthingsYule

I find your response to my post really odd. To copy out all of my post but then go to great lengths to respond to things I never said in my post and points I never made in my post.

DD has spent a long time avoiding being told off (she tells me that she never wants to get told off) and today was one of the first times.

Please, please, please try and find a way to work on this with her. Obviously you don't want her to think that breaking rules and being told off is an actively good think, but excessive fear of 'getting in trouble' or the disapproval of others is really limiting for children and the adults they become.

[quote blindinglyobviouslight]@HollyandIvyandallthingsYule

I find your response to my post really odd. To copy out all of my post but then go to great lengths to respond to things I never said in my post and points I never made in my post.[/quote]
Tbh I’ve just read back and slightly misunderstood what you had said in the second part so you’re right it’s not really as relevant as I thought it was! Apologies!

However, it is generally accepted that it’s best to reference behaviour and actions rather than criticising the child her/himself. There is a difference. A child may still feel upset or sensitive or a bit embarrassed at having been told off (just like adults still feel those things having been criticised, even in a constructive way), but the point I was actually trying to make was you really can’t avoid ever upsetting a child or making them feel bad, and it wouldn’t be productive if you could.

Not sure that’s any clearer...

The problem to me is that putting your hairband round the tap isn't an obvious no-no. There may be a good reason for the rule, not forgetting it and then losing it or whatever, but I think explaining that to the child is much better than just saying it's not a big girl thing to do, and I'm not surprised the DD was confused. The DD might be bigger than most of the other children, or it might be that the teacher was saying that she should be a big girl now because it's pre-school and she'll be going to big school next - but she's still only four.

I agree she needs to be more resilient, and I understand why the OP has issues around discipline. Both of those need to be thought about to decide how to go forward. And I wouldn't necessarily say anything to the school. But I don't think the teacher was right to phrase it that way.

Kids mucking about in bathrooms with the taps is a real pain for nursery. It normally leads to blockages of the drain and overflowing waterfalls, and mops required and flooded floors. It really is a time-water for the staff. It's good your daughter got told off. But that really is the end of it. Move on.

a time-waster

I think you need to work on your child's resilience. This is a total non-issue

@Wishforanishwishdiash

A different perspective:

I am a behavioural psychologist and always positive with my kids. They went to nurseries schools where the behaviour culture was positive.

My 15 year old recently suggested that I reprimand my 4-year-old more often. He says he had no experience with being reprimanded and it caused a lot of anxiety. From his point of view, being told off from time to time and building resilience is a good thing.

Not sure I agree, but another perspective.

I admire you for such a balanced and honest answer. You're obviously very reflective and listen to other people's points of view and don't mind that their different to your own. Very refreshing! I guess what we can all learn is extreme end of the spectrum on any idea of parenting we have are not always perhaps healthy.

shes not going to cope in primary scl then is she-doesnt want to ever be told off and when is will have a meltdown

no wonder kids are soft these days

A different perspective:

I am a behavioural psychologist and always positive with my kids. They went to nurseries schools where the behaviour culture was positive.

My 15 year old recently suggested that I reprimand my 4-year-old more often. He says he had no experience with being reprimanded and it caused a lot of anxiety. From his point of view, being told off from time to time and building resilience is a good thing.

wise beyond his age, and a lot more mature and thoughtful than many posters on here.

You did raise him, so he still is a credit to you!

She's just inept OP. Lots of early years staff and teachers are. Others are lovely and some are nasty. You DD will have wobbles caused by the inept and the nasty but the lovely ones will restore her faith.

The important thing is that they are unlikely to do any real harm and learning to let it wash over her is an important skill for later life.

She's just inept OP.
What have you based this on, exactly?

And some parents are over sensitive.

OP I think you have to be careful not to go from one extreme, child being criticised/disciplined to an excessive extent affecting their confidence to a child being protected from any criticism because as sure as sure can be their will be criticism in life and it isn't a kindness to let her get upset about the slightest hint of criticism.

It is understandable that you have issues because of your childhood and you don't want the same for her but you don't want her to be so frightened of doing wrong that she ends up doing nothing.

As a reprimand it wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, she has dealt with it and you will both move on.

It is OK to worry, we all do it about something, I do it too much and it is limiting.

What have you based this on, exactly?

She made a hash of telling a child she didn't want her to do something.