DD told she wasn’t a big girl at pre school

[Thereluctantstepmother]

My DD (nearly 4) is very well behaved.

Today she came home from pre-school a bit sad telling me that she had put her hairband around the tap and her pre school manager had told her that this wasn’t a big girl thing to do.

DD has spent a long time avoiding being told off (she tells me that she never wants to get told off) and today was one of the first times. DD pulled a confused face and her pre-school manager said “that isn’t a big girl face”.

I am feeling really triggered by this which is why I’m running past you all before I act because I’m a bit blurred by my own emotional response.

I’m completely happy for DD to be picked up on unwanted behaviours but I really detest the way it was framed as her ‘not being a big girl’ because... she’s not a big girl!

I told DD that at least she now knows that’s she’s not allowed to do that and she won’t do it again. I told her that all different people and places have different rules so I understand why she said she felt confused. We had lots of cuddles and she seems to have moved on.

But I still don’t feel happy with her being told she’s not a big girl, it’s as though she’s being shamed for not knowing a very nuanced rule.

When I first dropped DD off today (before this happened) the manager said that DD had been in a “funny mood” with her lately which I thought was an odd thing to say. DD is aware that this manager tells children off and I think she’s quite cautious of her.

Do you think I should just leave it or say something to her?

Thanks for reading.

@Sussexroadleyst

I hate stupid arbitrary rules

But that's just me.

so it's a good thing the thread is about a perfectly logical, coherent and common sense rule.

Even if said kindly, can't you imagine that it could shame? Even the fact you're trying to 'incentivise' to be big girls I didn't use it with toilet training or eating or being a 'big brother' either because I don't like the message it communicates to small children who are doing the best they can do and in situations that should often be child led. A child doing something because they want to or because they see the sense in it is much more desirable imo than those who have to be made feel somehow lesser or incentivised to do so.

I agree completely re the importance of resilience and it's essential but it doesn't mean we, as the adults, and in this case the professional, shouldn't consider the effect of our words and approaches. I wouldn't go in about it BTW, and probably wouldn't be overly bothered but I can see why the op is off because of it. What happens at home more important so that should/will be her focus.

My dc currently has a teacher who uses sticks and carrots for every part of their classroom management, threatening and cajoling in kind. It doesn't give the impression of someone confidently leading their class. But anyway I am massively digressing! But it's all connected, honest!

Don't, sunisshining, we should be considering our words and actions towards children!

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

Also strongly disagree with traffic light system mentioned above Are the children put to stand out on the coloured spots? This is really wrong imo tbh. Behaviourism is seen as old fashioned and limited for a reason.

Not at all, just their name is moved to the orange as a visual signal a behaviour wasn't appropriate. It's rarely used in this particular class, it was used last week because there were 30 5/6 year old coming in from every play time telling tales about every tiny infraction and it was taking half an hour to get through it which wasn't sustainable so the teacher used it to put an end to the petty telling of tales without discouraging coming forward for actual issues.

I'm describing it badly, but I completely agree with the teachers actions and it seems to have worked.

The class, and her previous classes have all had some visual way of showing behaviour- traffic lights, sunshine/rainbow/rain cloud or merits.

Your DD was told off at nursery- so you rewarded her with lots of cuddles!

Not appropriate but developmentally completely normal.. I'm glad there weren't spots on the floor at least and that your dd wasn't bothered.

No her dd was upset about something that happened and she comforted her while explaining why she couldn't do what she did. She wasn't even told off was she so you don't have to worry about rewarding bad behaviour unless you count putting a hair tie on a tap bad behaviour

Going against the majority here I guess. I think telling kids their behaviour is or isn't "big girl" is a bit manipulative. Just tell the kid they shouldn't do something because xyz. No need to make them feel like they aren't good enough for something so trivial. I can see why this might have upset op. And even though it looks like most people do this, doesn't mean it's right.

It's a bit like if someone were to say to you, as an adult, that something you did wasn't very smart etc. It's just not a nice thing to say really.

I hate stupid arbitrary rules

Yeah, let the kids do what they want and the staff can spent all their time locating misplaced items instead of caring for the children.

For every phrase one person finds acceptable someone else will be 'triggered' by it. She could have said 'that's silly' and the parent would be livid their kid was called silly, or a simple 'no, don't do that' and there's a parent incensed someone dare say no to their previous offspring.

It was a very mild “telling off” - your DD playing in the sinks/bathroom (which would be a no at almost any nursery or school), and the adult told her it wasn’t big girl behaviour.
She wasn’t shouted at or punished. She did something silly (like all 4yos do sometimes) and was told off.

Also bear in mind you’re getting this story several hours later filtered through a 4 year old, so it may well not be exactly what happened!
The teacher probably had 10 other kids to keep an eye on, so isn’t also going to phrase things perfectly keeping in mind current psychological theories and each child’s preferences.

If my 4yo had come home upset about this I’d just say oh dear, playing in the bathroom isn’t allowed at preschool. You know not to do it now.

@blindinglyobviouslight

She wasn’t actually told she wasn’t a big girl. She was told it wasn’t a big girl thing to do - that’s actually the right way to frame it, as it describes the behaviour or action and not her

I know adults say this, but my experience is that children don't pick up on this distinction, and understand it as a criticism of them. To be honest they are right. If your boss said, 'that wasn't a professional thing to do', you would understand that you were being reprimanded for being unprofessional.

If I was behaving in an unprofessional way I’d need to be told that fact; whether it was upsetting to me on a personal level or not really is not relevant. No one enjoys being criticised but sometimes it’s necessary! Provided I was told in an appropriate way it would be a) constructive and b) if I took it on board it would ensure I would become better at what I do.

Children who aren’t ever told when they’ve done something they’re not supposed to do, who then become teenagers who aren’t told when their attitude or actions are out of order, who then are mollycoddled throughout their college or university years, are generally the ones who can’t actually work out how to cope well in a job, fall apart when they’re given feedback at work, or scream about ‘rights’ without any thought given to responsibilities.

Again I reiterate, it’s not about being harsh.

The fact you "feel really triggered by this "
Suggest you were abused in your childhood or beaten every time you got something wrong? That's what triggered means so understandable you have had a massive gigantic overreaction to your daughter being gently told off ( I'm guessing there was much more naughtiness than she's actually telling you )

Speak to your regular therapist about this set back in your treatment and find the root of your overreaction

Personally I've never used the big boy/big girl phrase.
Whats wrong with just telling a child that they shouldn't do A and shoud do B instead??

There is some judgmnent associated with the big girl phrase and I would agree with the OP there. It implies that you are a baby if you don't do which is negative. And I tend to associate it with the 'not crying' or 'puting your big girl pants on' type of scenario.

Now would I have an issue with someone else using it? No. I woud just think it's a sbut stupid from them.
I would just brush it off and tell my dc that they now know that they are not supposed to .

One comment from me is that I thhink that spending too much time woth children bein 'introspective'/looking at tgeir feelings/analysising what has happened acn be counterproductive. Children ive in the moment and just as much as akclowledging thier feelings is important, it is also important not to put too much emphasis on them too. Otherwise been upset/angry/(but raely happy) get a loife of its own and becomes the ONE thing the child concentrates on rather than just moving on from what is a normal day to day life set backs.

Wait til they are in school going up and down bloody rainbow charts and into clouds and rainstorms and whatever on the bullshit behaviour chart.

Let it go honestly

What exactly did this trigger?

Your child did something wrong and was told off in language you'd use for that age. We often use the term big boy/big girl with our children, they are 3 and 4. "Brush your teeth like a big boy" etc.

When you send your children out into the world you do have to accept that not every adult who interacts with them will parent them just as you do.
But it’s ok, they will manage and adapt!

Someone picking language you wouldn’t choose, or using stickers or behaviour charts, or just not being as sensitive and empathetic as you would be (because they have to do crowd control too) is ok.

Can someone please explain to me what the issue is with putting one's hairband round a tap because I don't get that at all?!

She was meant to be washing her hands, but was instead messing about with the taps/sink. Or should all children just be left playing in toilets for as long as they like? Plus school taps are generally gross it's all just a bit grim.

I wouldn't be too worried about it but I do think it would be better to simply say "please don't put your hairband on the tap" and move on, why the need to describe it as a big or little girl thing to do? Same for "big girl face" - does that mean that older children and grown ups should hide their emotions? But I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme as part of life is dealing with incidents where things aren't worded in the best way and in isolation I don't think it would be harmful

I don’t think you are over reacting at all

I would be having a word. Yes it’s right she was told off, but needs to understand why, and ‘that’s not what big girls do’ doesn’t cut it, because believe me big girls will

It should have been explained clearly that it’s not allowed because xxxxxx

It’s trying to encourage responsible behaviour that comes with no longer being a toddler or more becoming of a school child rather than nursery. What would you prefer her to say? Children use this term about themselves and I think it encourages them to aspire to be a ‘big boy/girl’ in their growing sensibility.

I understand that she's gutted about being told off as it happens so infrequently,

Ime people use "big girl" as an incentive when teaching girls how to become more independent. Most kids like being mistaken for being older. Say you and your dd came round for dinner and she helped load her plate and glass into the dishwasher afterwards I might use it as a compliment. She's more likely to do it in future and she'd be pleased that I didn't think she was a little girl (baby)

Putting a hairband round a tap isn't naughty really (I'm assuming that it didn't cause plumbing problems) and in my experience loos are often places where kids might misbehave by blocking sinks, getting water on the floor etc which is "naughtier" than what your dd did.

Unfortunately at pre-school and later school, good deeds aren't noticed as much as "bad" so when she messes up it will be pointed out. She could do with reassurance that as long as she doesn't repeat that behaviour then it's no big deal.

I hate stupid arbitrary rules

I very much doubt that 'Don't put your hairband on a tap' is an actual rule! I would imagine the teacher just thought it was silly.

I work in primary across all age groups and at the lower end it can be very busy with 30 children wanting attention at once. Her choice of language may not have been ideal but it’s far from inappropriate.

Gosh you need to build some resilience for both of you. She's going to encounter a lot worse at school so please don't encourage this. Brush it off with something like it was a bit silly. Maybe you aren't getting the word for word example either. We often say in primary one that's a certain behaviour isn't what we do in p1/what a big p1 does. I lmagine it's similar in nursery with the older pre school dc. Big non issue that you are helping become an issue

Honestly, such an overreaction! Maybe she didn't want to be negative but also wanted to reinforce that it's not allowed. How can you seriously be bothered by this?!