Horrific play date

[SapphosRock]

I am mortified. DD is 5 and in year 1. She is quite highly strung and has the occasional meltdown but otherwise just a normal 5 year old.

Obviously there have been no play dates due to lockdown so this was her first proper one. A lovely little girl in her class bubble (let’s call her Lily) invited her over after school.

I arranged to collect DD after an hour as I know she can get overtired so thought this would be enough. Had a big talk with DD about manners, playing games Lily wants to play as well as her own (she struggles with this), being kind. DD can be sweet and charming and was confident the play date would go well.

Well, I’ve never been so embarrassed in my life. Lily’s dad was clearly very ready for DD to leave. Apparently they couldn’t agree on what game to play and she’d kicked Lily’s bookcase over. She was wearing one of Lily’s dresses and refused to take it off. She then refused to leave. Had a full on meltdown when i tried to help get the dress off, screamed, shouted, ran into Lily’s Dad’s bedroom, pulled his curtains and tried to get in his bed, shouting ‘no no no no’ the entire time and ‘worst play date ever’.

I would have physically carried her out but I had baby DS with me too so couldn’t carry them both. I asked if we could return the dress at school tomorrow to make a quicker exit but this made Lily cry so I had to get it off DD.

No exaggeration DD kept up the meltdown for over half an hour with Lily and her dad staring at us with shocked faces. I was apologising profusely and trying to calm
DD down enough to leave. In the end I had to leave DS with them, carry DD to the car with her kicking, screaming and clawing at my face, lock her in the car and go back to retrieve DS. It was hideous.

How should I have handled that? She’s lost her screen time for a week and no more play dates for the foreseeable. When she calmed down she said she didn’t know why she got so angry and she made Lily a card to say sorry (unprompted).

I don’t know how that could have been avoided? I made sure she had a snack after school before going to Lily’s so she wasn’t hungry. Other kids just don’t behave like that.

How can I make sure that never happens again?

Oh god, sorry I just read a load of other answers which are the same as mine. Sorry. Hope other playdates more successful. Your DD sounds lovely.

Can i just say, sometimes mumsnetters are sooooo over the tipop and dramatic, dont let anyone make you feel bad about it. I was smiling reading it (not in a laughing at your pain way) but because ive been through it, shes only 5 bless her, melt downs are normal.
They have all this emotion and dont know where to put it.

I agree that punishing for a week prob wont help as in my experience once things have calmed down it ends up being punishment for you because you feel bad for doing it.

This prob didnt help with your problem but i just wanted to say it as its important ❤️❤️❤️

It does sound like she may have ASD/some ASD traits. I don't find using the term wrong if that's what we're consideriing. I have ADHD with autistic traits, so I know there can also be a big crossover between the two.

Either way, it's worth going back to your doctor or other professionals, or going private for a short time for a diagnosis.

It can take a while to get professionals to take your concerns seriously. Keep plugging away xxx

I hosted a playdate that went pear shaped and ended with the child and mum going home in tears - child because she was overtired and cross that the fun had ended and mum because she was embarrassed and hurt by child's behaviour. Twenty plus years later the "children" are no longer friends but mum and I are. It happens and I was always relieved when it wasn't happening to me.

With my kids they were more likely to cause problems if they were at our house. I ended several playdates early because of my kids' behaviour.

Sounds a rough situation for everyone. Pull back as others have said and give your daughter a few months before trying a play date again.

OP, we had a visiting child take a dump in my son’s bed once. Nightmare play dates happen. Reassure yourself that this will one day be an anecdote you laugh about.

We had a couple of humdingers at that age - both my DD at other people's houses, and children at ours. 5 year olds can be awful! And they haven't learned not to carry on like that yet - coupled with the stress of being in a strange house without Mummy/Daddy or a familiar teacher. And when you're tired after school and stressed out, you're not going to have as much self control.

I take the point upthread about potential underlying issues, but honestly I would just say she's very little, it was a first go, and you know now to stay and carry out an early extraction if she gets overtired.

The Dad sounds a bit wet though. Why on earth didn't he just stick them in front of the tv when it went pearshaped? And I would have whooshed you out the door even if she was clutching the family silver, and just got it back from you later!

Treat it as a one off, lots of changes at the moment for wee ones.

Full sympathy @op! My Dd is the same age and sounds similar. I've posted about things on here before and people have been quick to say asd. I've spoken to friends who know her who have some relevant skills. They've said they don't think so, but she's definitely got quirks, some of which I recognise in myself but are more pronounced in Dd. Her younger brother is a breeze in contrast. Anyway just last week I was saying how Dd has really matured in yr1. So yesterday the teacher pulled her up on using too much paper, and Dd went nuts, throwing toys, screaming insults and stuck her tongue out at the teacher! She was in floods of tears at home time, clearly ashamed and had said sorry. When I looked in her bag she hadn't eaten any lunch and she was yawning her head off, so I'm chalking it up as being hangry?! No advice really I'm just here for the solidarity!!!

Op I've been there too (((hug))) It's an awful feeling when your child is kicking off to an extreme extent and the other parents/kids you're with look at you with shock and horror like you're the family from Mars. Yes, the behaviour is unacceptable and DD needs to be helped not to do it - but some DC are like this for various reasons.

Both of mine were still having massive, awful meltdowns and awful behaviour at 5. My DD is now 10 and it's been a long, long process of talking, listening, trying various methods to help her avoid it. Lots of parenting classes for me, including special ones for managing challenging behaviour. Involvement from lovely Ed psych helped too.

My DD has tried SO hard. She knows this behaviour doesn't help her and upsets others. Your DD's remorse and making the card is familiar to me. She doesn't want to be like this and feels terrible about it, even at 5. But they lose control and the anger and other extreme emotions burst out. My DD describes it as a volcano that's almost always brimming full and it doesn't take much to make her explode. It's to do with anxiety, stress and being constantly highly strung. But she can now manage it well, because she's made so much effort to understand it and spot the early warning signs and do what she needs to to calm down.

And my older child is a lovely, calm teen – for him a lot of it was just the need to be in control of his own life.

I'd explain that you acted hastily with the punishment and instead of that you'd like to talk to her about her feelings and see if she can help you understand what it feels like, and if you can help her with techniques to avoid it, like deep breathing, going to the toilet to be alone and calm down, etc. Meanwhile you could see if you can get an appointment to discuss with an ed psych at school.

Re ASD/autism, you will have a lot of people mentioning this but I would hesitate to jump to conclusions. I'm aware that both my DC and I tick some of the boxes for ASD traits, but also very much don't in other ways (and I do know that it can present in many ways). Professionals have advised me that anxiety can present in a similar way to ASD, and that in my DC case it might not be helpful to pursue a diagnosis, because the traits are relatively mild and having a view of themselves as having a special condition might hinder rather than help - I think that's probably very true for my DD.

Oh and you can't make sure it never happens again! But you can make life easier for her, learn to avoid the triggers, let her know you're there to help her manage it, and that this is not "who she is" but a challenge you can deal with together.

@TomNookTheHustler

OP what you have described is the way that autism presents in girls.

Don't hesitate to have this investigated further. I know a few autistic women that have struggled terribly with anxiety their whole lives, she can access lots of extra support with a diagnosis.

She probably 'masks' at school and melts down when she can't hold it together any longer.

I had to pay for DS1's diagnosis because the waiting list is 2 years in our area.

Thank you.

Yes, she may not have autism or ADHD or whatever else, and it may be a one-off, but the reason different people are saying this is that this IS the way that autism can present in young girls but it's dismissed. And as an adult who was a girl like this and - obviously - is on the spectrum for the long haul, please believe that overwhelm is very distressing indeed. The 'morning after' feel of a meltdown is likewise very distressing indeed, especially when you wonder whether the best thing might just be not to socialise at all and not to get close to people as you cannot trust yourself, and the adults who were present were angry with you. And that feeling is a massively hard one to challenge whether at 5, 15, or 45 and in a workplace. It affects so much else.

Masking at school, the discipline it demands for hours, then losing it in a safe place straight after is quite usual.

Just to say that if a 5 year old acted like that in my house, I might find it very difficult and upsetting, but I'd be sympathetic rather than horrified so I hope that Lilly's dad isn't making you feel worse.

Suggestions that she might have some challenges are all worth keeping in mind. However, I'd argue that at 5, especially after 6 months of lockdown, it's not actually that weird that she wasn't comfortable being left alone for a playdate.

DD is the same age and pretty confident but I only started leaving her for stay-without-me/DH playdates fairly recently, and only with her besties' who she knows well. In one case, DS goes with her as he's friends with her friend's brother, in the second, she's having her first such play date next week but is mostly happy to be left alone as the choice was between going to her friend's house alone after school or coming with me and DS to his OT appointment..... Her next playdate with a relatively new friend will inevitably involve me and the friend's mum having coffee as I don't think either one of the girls is ready to be left at a "stranger's" house.

A week's screen time removal seems way too excessive for this age. Especially as it's clear that she was not in control of herself. She needs tools to manage her fear and stress.

She's been naughty, you need to discipline - don't worry about it. Make this an incident she remembers - is my advice that it doesn't happen again. Remind her every time she goes anywhere, talk about how she embarrassed herself, upset Lily, big girls don't behave like that etc

Please, please don't do this OP. How would you feel if you had messed up in a meeting and every time you were about to go into another meeting, your boss reminded you of how you had humiliated
yourself before, and how you needed to be a professional now? Wouldn't that compound your sense of shame and have you focussing on your inadequacy when you went into the new meeting? Wouldn't it raise your anxiety?

Now how would you feel if instead your boss reminded you of past successes before you went into another meeting, and expressed confidence in you, and said he would be there for back up if you needed it?

Your daughter has not been naughty. She has been overwhelmed by a situation that was too much for her. She needs your support to boost her up not knock her down.

I've got 3 dc. Honestly I've had similar with perfectly normal dc.

End of school, they're tired, probably over excited because they've built it up all day and they're thoroughly wound up. I remember carrying all three of mine out of playdates (not at once)-and have seen parents doing the same at ours.

Yes, it's embarrassing. Yes, it's a pity to have one like that. Move on.

I wouldn't go for major punishment. I'd just sit her down, and talk to her how now she's "big" she's got to be sensible about playdates, and if she doesn't behave then she can't do them.
She knows she behaved badly, so she's done apology card for Lily, that's fairly mature. Explain to her that Lily may not want her back.

Next time suggest you go to the park. Give her plenty of notice of going. One of mine I would do a half hour warning, 10 minutes, 5 minutes, 2 minutes, and a 10 second count down.
One of my others as long as she was told what time she had to leave, and she was shown a clock she was happy to go.
Different things work.

Really, I have seen worse the important thing is the acknowledgement that it wasn't right (which she's done) and moving on not to do it next time.

Oh and re punishment, I'm not opposed to consequences at all, and do use them, but the thing about meltdowns is the child has lost control in a way that is very hard to just "not do". It makes sense to have consequences and rewards for specific behaviours, as well as positive reinforcement, but not to punish for a meltdown as I think it just makes the child more powerless and stressed and so the anxiety is ramped up more.

Oh God, I think any parent has had similar at some point in their parenting "journey." Unfortunately kids are like this occasionally! They have meltdowns and embarrass you. Don't worry about it. It happens to us all!

I remember taking one of my sons to a playgroup where they had some pushalong cars, and one particular car he got fixated on and wouldn't get out of. I'd never been to this particular group before so didn't know any of the other mums. He hit two other children who even came close, and in the end I literally had to drag him screaming and kicking out of it so that someone else could have a go. I thought he'd calm down after 10 minutes looking at something else but no, he howled and bellowed and threw himself on the floor, arching his back, drumming his heels, throwing any toy within reach across the room.

Tried to pick him up, he tore at my hair, threw my glasses on the floor, screamed in my face. Was conscious that the hall had just gone deadly silent. It was hell, I could feel everyone's eyes burning into me.

Then he wriggled free and rushed back over to the car, wrenched the door open and (still crying) just sat down on the kid in the driving seat. God knows how I managed to get him out and then into his buggy. I think the experience was so humiliating and awful I've blocked it from my memory! I was a shell of a person that day.

I didn't return!

DS 2 has a complete shitfit once in the supermarket, by the vegetable section after wanting to play with the mushrooms. I had a herculean fight to get him back in his buggy (he was usually a good boy in the shops!) Again, clawing at my face, my hair.

The screaming was so loud it literally brought people to a halt with their trolleys. I abandoned that trip too but had to pay for three mushrooms.

Agree with pp above. Children shouldn't be punished for meltdowns and losing control. They should be taught coping strategies instead.

It also doesn't sound like she was being "naughty" as such, so I don't think any punishment is actually appropriate here. And I say that as a strict Mum!

I just don't think it will "help". The screen time thing won't actually change what happened, or how she will handle it next time. She's just too small, and was too tired to manage her feelings. Certainly ignore the advice above to drag out the humiliation by reminding her of it and turning it into a big deal!

I would just be aware and prepared to avoid it happening in the first place - exactly as you have said you are - for next time. You sound like a lovely, sensitive and kind Mum.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the issue of a 5yo having regular enough screen time that removing it seems like a standard kind of punishment. I'm not judging. It all sounds mortifying and I'm sure we've all been there or somewhere similar and can empathise. You also have your hands full. But it's worth thinking about what she's doing during her screen time and how long it goes on and how frequent it is. We see a lot of threads here about excessive or inappropriate tech consumption having an appalling effect on behaviour even in older children with more mature brains. The slightly casual way you reference 'screen time' for a child this young makes me wonder if it's a contributory factor.

Children shouldn't be punished for meltdowns and losing control. They should be taught coping strategies instead

This * 1,000

I don't think she was being naughty and I wouldn't be leaping towards her having a SEN either. I think she's a completely overwhelmed 5 year old who was tired after a long day and it was all just too much for her. Especially after so many months of oddness.

Chalk it up to experience, apologise to the parents but hold your head up high. You won't be the first to be humiliated by your kid and you certainly won't be the last.

As a primary school teacher I’d say it’s over tiredness and personality. Some kids get spaced out when tired, some get emotional. Honestly I don’t think you should overthink this. If this had happened and I was hosting I would have chalked it up to over tiredness and arranged to meet at a playpark another time when it’s less stressful. I wouldn’t think you are a terrible parent or she has some deep seated issues beyond being 5 and exhausted. Bless you

Hasn't everyone had a nightmare playdate?

DS, when he was 6 years old, took all his clothes off at a birthday party, and kept running away like a game of tag, DD1, when she was 5, curled herself in a ball saying she was a turtle and wouldn't move.

What was the dad like? It sounds as if they weren't sure what to do, rather than your DD being, 'naughty,' or whatever.

@crosspelican

It also doesn't sound like she was being "naughty" as such, so I don't think any punishment is actually appropriate here. And I say that as a strict Mum!

I just don't think it will "help". The screen time thing won't actually change what happened, or how she will handle it next time. She's just too small, and was too tired to manage her feelings. Certainly ignore the advice above to drag out the humiliation by reminding her of it and turning it into a big deal!

I would just be aware and prepared to avoid it happening in the first place - exactly as you have said you are - for next time. You sound like a lovely, sensitive and kind Mum.

Absolutely agree.

I had this behaviour with my dd sometimes year 1. I think the build up and excitement is too much plus ( and i don't mean to criticise the big talk about behaviour beforehand might have been overwhelming).
My dd is 17 now and a delight btw. Holding down a job, loads of friends, uni next year.
In your shoes i would avoid any more playdates for a while and next time be more casual, don't big it up and don't mention this one again once punishment finished.
Move on and give her a chance.
You may well look back and laugh.

It sounds to me that she's just a bit too little to have a playdate without you being there. It's a big thing going home to someone's house with a parent you don't properly know and if your DD has a tendency to be emotional then it's a tough ask to expect her to show exemplary behaviour. I would apologise again to the dad and in future only have playdates where you can be there too.