Horrific play date

[SapphosRock]

I am mortified. DD is 5 and in year 1. She is quite highly strung and has the occasional meltdown but otherwise just a normal 5 year old.

Obviously there have been no play dates due to lockdown so this was her first proper one. A lovely little girl in her class bubble (let’s call her Lily) invited her over after school.

I arranged to collect DD after an hour as I know she can get overtired so thought this would be enough. Had a big talk with DD about manners, playing games Lily wants to play as well as her own (she struggles with this), being kind. DD can be sweet and charming and was confident the play date would go well.

Well, I’ve never been so embarrassed in my life. Lily’s dad was clearly very ready for DD to leave. Apparently they couldn’t agree on what game to play and she’d kicked Lily’s bookcase over. She was wearing one of Lily’s dresses and refused to take it off. She then refused to leave. Had a full on meltdown when i tried to help get the dress off, screamed, shouted, ran into Lily’s Dad’s bedroom, pulled his curtains and tried to get in his bed, shouting ‘no no no no’ the entire time and ‘worst play date ever’.

I would have physically carried her out but I had baby DS with me too so couldn’t carry them both. I asked if we could return the dress at school tomorrow to make a quicker exit but this made Lily cry so I had to get it off DD.

No exaggeration DD kept up the meltdown for over half an hour with Lily and her dad staring at us with shocked faces. I was apologising profusely and trying to calm
DD down enough to leave. In the end I had to leave DS with them, carry DD to the car with her kicking, screaming and clawing at my face, lock her in the car and go back to retrieve DS. It was hideous.

How should I have handled that? She’s lost her screen time for a week and no more play dates for the foreseeable. When she calmed down she said she didn’t know why she got so angry and she made Lily a card to say sorry (unprompted).

I don’t know how that could have been avoided? I made sure she had a snack after school before going to Lily’s so she wasn’t hungry. Other kids just don’t behave like that.

How can I make sure that never happens again?

Playdates can be utterly horrific, shows the best (but usually the worst) in your own and other kids.

Am I the only one who NEVER had a child leave a playdate at this age without some form of tantrum? Fortunately, it was rarely mine because he wouldn't go to playdates at anybody else's house (horrified at the thought). I think the best collections by parents consisted only of the guest child shouting no I'm not going and running away and hiding. The worst, the child's dad had to wrestle him into the car and he spat in his dad's face!!

I honestly don't think Lily's dad will have been as horrified as you think. He probably looked horrified because it's difficult to know what to do with your face when somebody else's child is playing up.
As others have said, she's still very little and they've had such a disrupted year. She'll be tired and a bit overwhelmed.

I have had so many children to play here over the years, I would classify the playdate without a meltdown to be the exception rather than the rule if was an after school playdate at five years old. There would always be at least one child screaming or being unreasonable. After all, they have had to contain themselves all day at school.

Don't punish her op, she is too young to know better. Just reassure her that no real harm was done, she has done a good job of writing the card of apology to her friend, and let her forget about it. Next time stay with her, and be on hand if she is getting over tired/overwhelmed, and have some strategies for getting her home - a reward if she leaves nicely and says thank you that kind of thing.

This brought back memories for me. One of mine struggled to handle overwhelming emotions, and used to have infrequent but epic meltdowns that went on and on and on. It went on til she was about 7! Way beyond toddler tantrums. The rest of the time she was lovely and quite quiet, but once the trigger had been pulled, the only option was a quick removal and to let it burn out. I have carried her more than a time or two from the dinner table, she once kicked a teacher at school who got too close during one of these- it was so mortifying.

We did wonder if she was on the spectrum, as she also had slightly obsessive qualities, but as time has gone on, it's clear she isn't. Funnily enough she's a very calm and well-mannered teen! Still gets very upset now and again, but perfectly ok.

I did't let mine go to parties or any playdates alone til age 6 at least, My other daughter isn't like this at all.

I don't see this as 'naughty' though, more getting out of control and once you have reached that stage, a very firm removal is probably the only way as they have gone beyond reason.

My 5 year old had an epic meltdown this week. As with your DD, I honestly think it’s a) tiredness due to going back to school b) stress due to the change of routine and being back at school after lockdown and in a new school year c) their bodies getting used to a new routine re food and drink rather than being at home and having them when needed.

Children that age can’t really verbalise their stress and I think such meltdowns are their way of letting it out. Mainly, I’ve learnt to never ever underestimate the effect tiredness can have on behaviour.

Don’t blame yourself but don’t be too harsh on your DD. The fact she’s doing a card to apologise is great. I’d think it all got too much for her rather than she chose to be naughty.

Play dates after school are convenient but I avoid them with younger children or go along myself.

Gosh that sounds mortifying for you, but I wouldn’t keep reminding your daughter of it, as it’s not going to change the outcome.

I also think it’s unkind to harp on about mistakes as it sets her up to a negative pattern of behaviour instead of praising good behaviour.

I’ve no other helpful advice really other than to say after a particularly eventful play date where the visiting child was a nightmare, I decided not to leave mine at a play date alone until about 7yrs old.

Sadly, like animals, children can be unpredictable when the parents aren’t around, both your child and the host child.

OP - I feel for you. Others will have better advice than me, but I can tell you that I once felt I had to leave a £20 tip in McDonalds due to the melt down one of my sons had. It was shocking! Drink, ketchup and food everywhere. It only happened a couple of times - the other being Pizza Express Chiswick and I've never been back (ended up leaving a large tip and having to pay someone's dry cleaning bill!) He was about 5 yo, he's 18 now and he's turned out fine and is actually lovely now!!

Oh goodness, we've all had things go sideways on us (DS2 being fireman carried out of the themepark yelling 'WORST DAY EVER', DS1 flat refusing to leave the softplay, and escaping to the very top where I couldn't get him (had to do a full on, right, I'm leaving.. even go out the door). The time DS2 locked himself in a playdate's bedroom and they had to break down the door to get in, or a playdate who came to us, didn't like any of the food, and just sat in a wardrobe on DS's ipad.

These things happen, the playdate-host really could have helped a bit too! I know if mine, or my friends kids were having meltdowns all would be forgiven, and we'd all just be trying to help get the child home and calm safely.

5 is still quite young for unaccompanied play dates. Is she ready? Had she been on others that have been more successful?

Another tip for future playdates.

If one of mine is tired but has a playdate scheduled, I always say to the other parent that DC is tired, and if things start to go a bit wrong please feel free to call me to pick up early or to put the DC in front of the TV. Other parents say the same to me.

The TV option is particularly useful as it means the other child hasn’t lost out on having a friend over but it avoids all the difficult social interaction and compromise. It turns into a “movie playdate” which is fun, especially if you have some popcorn available.

I would not have put up with that for 30 minutes. Baby in arms or not I would have put her under my arm and marched off.

That was exactly my plan but unfortunately she had her friend's dress on and they weren't happy with me leaving with it.

Some excellent advice on here, thank you. I'm just heading out so will read again and reply later.

@LimitIsUp

"Ignore the SEN comments"

This is just such a dim thing to say.

Nobody is attempting to diagnose this child, but some posters are quite appropriately flagging that ASD could be a possibility - and why would they do that? - because if this is an issue for this child then she could be receiving appropriate support.

Why are some posters so resistant to the notion that ASD should be considered (as a possibility) - its almost as if they consider ASD to be something shameful

Saying "Have you considered she may have additional needs" is one thing but throwing out acronyms like ASD & ADHD do not help. Labeling a child without a specific diagnosis is harmful and can cause tunnel vision for parents and teachers when dealing with SEN.

Although I may get flamed for this, parents saying their child has autism because some teacher/school nurse/nursery assistant mentioned it is one thing that genuinely angers me. Only a medical professional such as a Clinical Psychologist can diagnose ASD following a Specialist Autism Assessment Report. Throwing out ASD as the possible reason for every nuance of negative behavior in a child is why SEN help in education is so hard to get and the reason wait lists for assessment are so long.

She was overwhelmed, poor little mite, and didn't know how to handle it. You mentioned a new sibling and lockdown has been crap for everyone, adults included.

She is only five. I wouldn't punish her. I wouldn't keep rehashing it with her either.
Put it behind you and arrange to stay with her for any future play dates.

She just did a full day of school. You have no idea what might have happened to your child during the day. They might be stressed, upset, confused, worried, anything. They are learning how to socialise with others and can't always cope. That's what grown-ups are here for - to help. Before primary schools became the fashion we had 'infants' schools because you know what, these kids are tiny and we expect them to behave like little adults going for coffee or something, and it is not fair on them at all. All children learn how to communicate at different rates. Your child is having a meltdown because she not yet able to communicate what she is feeling or needing. And a five year old at that time of day isn't rational. I'm sorry that happened, for her as well as you. I would have been mortified too for what it's worth. Well done for just making it out :) I wouldn't bother with the no screen time for a week. She was madly upset. She won't even realise what she's done wrong and won't connect the punishment to the meltdown which was effectively her crying out to you for help.

It sounds like her sibling is too young to be an actual playmate yet, so she really needs to learn how to play, especially after the last 6 months. In nursery and school the teacher is probably leading the activity a bit, not just free play where kids have to negotiate.

Accompany her to playdates until you know she can behave, invite people over and stay nearby correcting her and repeatedly saying "you won't get to have playdates if you can't be nicer to your friend." That makes the direct link between her behaviour and an outcome. After, have a calm chat along the lines of "How do you think friend felt when you kicked her furniture...?" My DD was bad at playdates in a different way (shy - once hid in someone's wardrobe) and I eased her in by having things prepared, like painting or treasure hunts. She is 9 now and a delight - whereas some of the people who at 4/5 rolled their eyes at a playdate being anything other than completely hands off are now finding their child isn't invited anywhere.

Oh goodness, we've all had things go sideways on us (DS2 being fireman carried out of the themepark yelling 'WORST DAY EVER'

That's just reminded me of an epic tantrum my dd threw in a water park, refused to change and had to be carried out (I got very wet) past all the queuing parents. She was about 8! Hadn't had one for months, didn't see it coming.

I wouldn't continue to punish her this week, she said sorry, you are going to manage the situation better going forward, all is ok.

Sorry OP but that did make me laugh, only because I can totally relate and I’m out the other side too (no SEN diagnosis).
I’ll tell you what works for us but please no judging.
And a disclaimer upfront I am not a monster....but the only thing that worked with me was to find my DD’s weakness. To find what she really cared about and then use that as the punishment. Use it the first time and enforce. Then the threat afterwards was enough.
My DD wouldn’t have cared about losing screen time at 6. But what she really hated was being left alone. Not just alone but she has massive FOMO. So as her punishment I would send her to her bedroom and then do something very fun with her sibling.
I know that sounds rotten. Doing something fun with her brother was never part of the ‘punishment’ but I made sure she could hear us doing it to really make an impact.
I only had to do it twice before the threat by itself was enough.

CharityDingle put it better than I did! :)

More empathy here from the mum of a (now) totally laid back, polite and articulate 15 year old boy.

This has brought back all the memories of a very early years playdate when he was about five. The screaming tantrum when he had to stop playing on the hosts Wii console, the kicking and crying and clinging to the controller and not letting it go. The looks of horrified judgement from the host parents - complete with 'x has never behaved like this' comments.

Oh God, it brings it all back.

In our case he was just overwhelmed and totally obsessed with the Wii (we didn't have any computer games back then, it was the first time he'd seen such delights).

He grew up, chilled out, learnt to cope. It can just be about being overwhelmed and losing it.

It could have been worse, Ds2 was 8 when I was collecting him from a friend's house who was always so lovely, the friend came at me and Ds with a dinner knife because he didn't want Ds to leave and his Mother stood there passively whilst he was walking toward us and telling us we weren't going anywhere.

I was genuinely terrified. Needless to say, he never went back again and was never invited here.

I thought I was the only one who dared to think this. My kids feet wouldn't have touched the floor pulling that crap

Mine is autistic and his feet wouldn't have touched the floor. I don't usually have a hold of a baby though.

She's too young emotionally for whatever reason to be left on a playdate OP. Maybe sack them off for a while rather than her do a long punishment.

My kids aren't angels and can be a bit mental at home, but at school and other people's houses they know how to behave.
I'd not have stayed half an hour with her behaving like that, I'd have had her in the car right away.
One of my boys friends comes over now and then (when his mum asks me for a favour) and he is just utterly bonkers. Climbs on everything, gets everything out and refuses to leave when she finally comes. I dread it tbh!

OP what you have described is the way that autism presents in girls.

Don't hesitate to have this investigated further. I know a few autistic women that have struggled terribly with anxiety their whole lives, she can access lots of extra support with a diagnosis.

She probably 'masks' at school and melts down when she can't hold it together any longer.

I had to pay for DS1's diagnosis because the waiting list is 2 years in our area.

My ds then 5 suffered from bad constipation when he was younger and sometimes when he did eventually go he had little control over it. Unfortunately for his friends poor mum he had a massive 'accident' when she took him and a couple of other kids to soft play. I was utterly mortified when she handed me a bag of shitty clothes back at the end of the play date.
These things happen op.

Why don’t you ask about her behaviour at school and if they have any issues so far ?