Horrific play date

[SapphosRock]

I am mortified. DD is 5 and in year 1. She is quite highly strung and has the occasional meltdown but otherwise just a normal 5 year old.

Obviously there have been no play dates due to lockdown so this was her first proper one. A lovely little girl in her class bubble (let’s call her Lily) invited her over after school.

I arranged to collect DD after an hour as I know she can get overtired so thought this would be enough. Had a big talk with DD about manners, playing games Lily wants to play as well as her own (she struggles with this), being kind. DD can be sweet and charming and was confident the play date would go well.

Well, I’ve never been so embarrassed in my life. Lily’s dad was clearly very ready for DD to leave. Apparently they couldn’t agree on what game to play and she’d kicked Lily’s bookcase over. She was wearing one of Lily’s dresses and refused to take it off. She then refused to leave. Had a full on meltdown when i tried to help get the dress off, screamed, shouted, ran into Lily’s Dad’s bedroom, pulled his curtains and tried to get in his bed, shouting ‘no no no no’ the entire time and ‘worst play date ever’.

I would have physically carried her out but I had baby DS with me too so couldn’t carry them both. I asked if we could return the dress at school tomorrow to make a quicker exit but this made Lily cry so I had to get it off DD.

No exaggeration DD kept up the meltdown for over half an hour with Lily and her dad staring at us with shocked faces. I was apologising profusely and trying to calm
DD down enough to leave. In the end I had to leave DS with them, carry DD to the car with her kicking, screaming and clawing at my face, lock her in the car and go back to retrieve DS. It was hideous.

How should I have handled that? She’s lost her screen time for a week and no more play dates for the foreseeable. When she calmed down she said she didn’t know why she got so angry and she made Lily a card to say sorry (unprompted).

I don’t know how that could have been avoided? I made sure she had a snack after school before going to Lily’s so she wasn’t hungry. Other kids just don’t behave like that.

How can I make sure that never happens again?

It sounds awful but to be honest my 2 dds have had friends round and it has descended into arguing about games/dresses - was the dad doing anything to distract etc..

I'd be putting it down to tiredness, new sibling etc

I wish I had stayed. The original plan was to go to the playground but as it was raining it was decided DD would go to Lily's.

I wouldn't even punish for this - I think a 5 year old - (who wouldn't even be in school in most European countries for another year or two) and has a new baby sibling is just having a bad day.

Of course they shouldn't behave like that but clearly they had lost control.

TBH - If I was the other parent I would have said - keep the dress on and picked her up for you and helped you leave.

Nothing much to add, but just wanted to say a "me too" in solidarity. My 5 year old can have epic meltdowns like this, usually with playdates at our house rather others. He very much goes from 0 to 60 in a few seconds and coming down too heavy handed with him just escalates things. I just end the playdate there. The only other thing I do, in addition to suggestions above, is, once he's calmed down, ask him to think of and tell me how he would have behaved differently, as that seems to reinforce the good behaviour. I make any punishment match the bad behaviour, hence ending the playdate rather than restricting screen time.

You poor thing. I don’t think you did anything wrong. Keeping the play date to an hour was a good thought.

I’d do a week of no screens too and would try and talk it through with her. Ask her how she could do it differently next time, ask her about her choices and what she thought other people were thinking. Try and get her to see it as a one off incident that she can learn from (sounds cringey but hopefully you know what I mean) She probably frightened herself.
Also, OP, maybe you could shift a little ‘blame’ to the hosts parents. 😅. Maybe they weren’t managing the play date very well ?

Good luck. I would keep an eye on her (obviously!) and see what happens. It might just be a one off and it might be signs of a bigger problem. You can’t tell.

Just wanted to add my 5 year old had a meltdown like this once at a dance class I was pregnant at the time, kicking screaming at me wrestled her out and into the car! I was shattered! She is now a calm teacher! It's just they are very young!

Adhd/autism starts about now

What the actual fuck

I don't understand why the dad was just standing there staring at you. How unhelpful! He could have held the baby so you had two hands to manage your daughter. Or he could have helped defuse the situation with the dress somehow.

Sappho. What a nightmare.

In practical terms, I'd suggest several things. First - stay with DD for playdates. She's still young, and also (thanks to lockdown) out of practice with social interaction. A bit of parental support (you on hand to step in, just take her to one side and calm her before things get out of hand) may help.

The other option is neutral territory - harder now the weather is getting crap, but maybe suggest a few meet-ups in the park while she gets used to social interaction again.

Children's personalities are so variable, and it's so hard to tell where normal childhood behaviour shades into a bigger problem (one of my closest friends had this - her older DD did indeed turn out to be on the autistic spectrum, but it wasn't really till she had a second, neurotypical child she realised something was wrong. On the other hand, there are some neurotypical children who are just slower to get social interaction than others. And sometimes we as adults just project onto children a level of social abilities that their age group just can't manage).

I remember when DS was that age, I had a really tough year where another friend suggested an "after school swap", where I took the boys one afternoon and she took them the other, and we did after school club the rest of the time. It was hell - because shifting from "parent hosting other child in your house and expecting your own child to be welcoming as a one-off" to "neutral referee who is providing childcare and has to treat all of them equally" on a weekly basis for a whole school year was just tough beyond anything I could have imagined. It changed the whole social dynamic of the situation, and made it so much harder.

SEN can't be ruled out at this stage, but it doesn't have to be the first thing we jump to either.

She's been through lockdown, gained a new sibling, back at school full time, strange house, tired etc. All of this could have contributed to how she behaved. Especially if she isn't misbehaving in school. If she doesn't know Lily's dad very well then maybe she didn't feel comfortable telling him when she had a problem and as a result it escalated into a full blown meltdown.

Oh OP, I'm cringing for you! If it's any consolation, this story will be hilarious in ten years.

Ignore the SEN comments, she's sounds overwhelmed, overtired and out of her depth.

She's five, that's tiny. Especially when it comes to social etiquette and 'how' to behave. Let's not forget she's lost 6 months + of social development when it comes to other kids so they're all going to have regression.

I bet Lily has her little shit moments too.

It sounds a tantrum like she would have at home, the getting into his bed etc. sounds as though she's used to having stomping ground at home, at grandparents' etc. and doesn't really understand the concept of boundaries at friends' houses - which of course she won't, she's five.

She's been naughty, you need to discipline - don't worry about it. Make this an incident she remembers - is my advice that it doesn't happen again. Remind her every time she goes anywhere, talk about how she embarrassed herself, upset Lily, big girls don't behave like that etc. Also, I wouldn't recommend unsupervised playdates for a while.

Maybe try again in a year or two. Chip up and have a big glass of wine.

First play dates are hard work, there are exceptionally high expectations from overly excited kids who have probably spent the days leading to the play date planning exactly what they were going to do. My 4 yo and his BF were devastated that I wouldn't let them wander off camping for the weekend and proceeded to fist fight in the garden because my DS wouldn't swap shoes. They are still BFs 12 years later and have calmed considerably.
My DD used to fall out with every single friend in the lead up to half term because she was massively over tired.
As others said, apologise to the host, but I wouldn't rule out play dates altogether. Perhaps the next play date could be a more low key meet up in a park, where you and "Lily's" mum supervise.

Oh bless you, you will laugh about this one day, I promise!

Drop some flowers or chocolates around to the other parents with a note saying how sorry and mortified you are, skip play dates for 6 months or so, then try one at your house.

My DC are a bit older now, but used to have lots of friends over, some whom would kick off at home time as children sometime do. The most successful were the parents who’d give them a clear warning, then in case of non compliance scoop them up and manhandle them out. They’d often ask me to help by holding a younger sibling, or carrying shoes/bags/coats out behind them. The only ones that annoyed me were the parents who would spend 40 minutes pleading, bribing and trying to reason with a child who was beyond reasoning. Those who were told “oh ok, you can return XYZ tomorrow” would without fail try the same thing next visit, so you definitely made the right call on the clothes!

Just to add to other's comments; I think we've all had a time with small children where they've completely humiliated us with a huge tantrum of some sort.

You're not alone in feeling a bit mortified. I have given up trying to reason and man handled my children out of situations when they were small feeling red faced, sweating and thinking Fuck I've forgotten how to parent.

You're not a bad parent at all

I agree I wouldn’t worry or be looking for a diagnosis! I agree with everything @neversayalways has said.

5 year olds are allowed to have a bad day. I’d write it off and try not to feel embarrassed ( totally wasted emotion when you have kids). I’d say most other parents would understand. Everything is new and it’s the first play date so you are learning what she can/ can’t handle. I agree if I were *lilys dad I’d probably just let your DD keep the dress on so you could all leave especially if you were trying to deal with a baby at the same time!

Honestly, OP, at five, and on a first playdate, I would have expected you to go with her and stay the full hour, especially if she's a highly-strung child. That way you could have nipped your DD's behaviour in the bud at the outset, and taken her away if it was clear it was escalating.

This. Reading your OP brought back some ghastly memories for me. Playdates were always difficult for my two highly strung lads, who coped fine with after school clubs and with school itself, but were so excited about having playdates, it brought out behaviour I never saw in other situations. It was a real catch 22 - the fewer playdates they had, the more exciting they were, the more likely they were to behave bizarrely.

In the end, I organised lots of after school club based activities, and then encouraged as many playdates at our house as I could stand, made sure they had lots of carbohydrates at the start - crumpets are great - and lurked, ready to intervene if things went wrong. And apologised a lot to parents when things went wrong.

They grew out of it eventually/found friends who they were more relaxed with, and are both reasonably civilised adults now, who don't scream or have random tantrums anymore, honest!

At that age mine were always so tired after school. If I tried to put them in an after school activity/play date, then they would start to cry 30 minutes in! Dont be too hard on her. Perhaps next time invite her friend over at the weekend, and keep a close eye on her! Dont feel bad op.

Adhd/autism starts about now. I know I'll get shouted down for this but I'm sure as you add more info (you've already made it clear you've been managing her behaviour) it will be more obvious on here.

I've taught SEN kids for 20 years and my youngest has additional needs. I think it's really unhelpful to try to diagnose a child over the internet.

Any 5YO who is tired, in a new social situation which has been hyped up, without their main carer, processing the arival of a new sibling, looked after by someone they don't know well, frustrated at not getting their own way and feeling embarassed at an argument will have a melt down. Christ my neurotypical, emotionally inteligent 6YO only needs 2-3 of those triggers to turn into a demon child.

The other kids Dad will be very lucky if he's never experienced one of these- he will get it.

Op, I don't want to make you feel worse, but I generally stayed with my dc for playdates until around the age of 8/9. Some parents stayed until their children were 10. It varies depending on the child.

What you don't know is what happened before you came to collect her, what kind of day she has had, and at just five she is completely unable to regulate her emotions and exhaustion. I too would write it off as a bad day. After school playdates are always fractious, everyone is tired, cranky and needing some downtime.

Why don't you try again, this time at your house or at soft play on a Saturday afternoon when she is not so tired, and watch how she plays and how she copes quietly.

My dd regularly had meltdowns at the end of the day, as school is often too much for some children.

We have all had our fair share of playdates from hell. Trust me you will laugh about this one day! Drop the other parent a message saying you are sorry and that she was over tired.

I wouldn't let a child that young go to someone else's house unless I knew the parents and that they were able to handle poor behaviour in a kind and appropriate way. Lily's dad sounds a bit clueless. Children are not mini-adults and sometimes they need to be 'managed', especially if tired and overwhelmed. If a playdate is going wrong, the adult should needs to diffuse the situation, either by setting up a different game, offering a snack or, if it really is going all wrong, turning on the TV. Simply watching your tired and overwhelmed DD lose control when he's in loco parentis seems a bit poor, actually.

I agree this will be a story with which to embarrass your dd in 20years’ time!

My dn was very similar to this - got over-excited about things and had meltdowns, ran away from people’s houses, wanted to take toys home etc etc. I can confirm that she grew up to be quite ordinary!

I would say that dn’s behaviour took a turn for the worse when her sibling arrived. It is hard work being the “sensible big sister” and sometimes the frustration bursts out in the worst of places (eg on a play date).

OP this, to me, sounds completely normal for an overwhelmed/over excited 5 year old. I say this a mother of 3 daughters 11, 9 & 5 and the youngest being in an SEN school with low functioning ASD.

All of them have had tantrums like this at some point. My eldest's most epic one was in an aisle of ASDA on a Saturday when she was 6 (absolutely mortified). Chances are the parents of the friend are sympathetic towards you and, if they are nice people, won't judge as they have more than likely been there themselves at some point.

Why is all the blame on your DD, maybe some blame lies with the other parents inability to manage the playdate? I think it's a bit weird that he couldn't distract and step in for just one hour? If a child has a tantrum about leaving my house I step in and help the other parent. Kids usually listen to other parents better. I have very often waved off kicking and screaming kids wearing our fancy dress outfits they refused to take off and held younger siblings or helped to strap kicking kids into car seats or reassured the parents it's fine to go in/upstairs and grab them. The dad just standing there aghast and not offering to help sounds hugely unhelpful and maybe a bit telling of how he did/didn't manage their play.

"Ignore the SEN comments"

This is just such a dim thing to say.

Nobody is attempting to diagnose this child, but some posters are quite appropriately flagging that ASD could be a possibility - and why would they do that? - because if this is an issue for this child then she could be receiving appropriate support.

Why are some posters so resistant to the notion that ASD should be considered (as a possibility) - its almost as if they consider ASD to be something shameful