Help! I have a gender non-conforming DS, and feel like the rubber is hitting the road.

[WankmasterBastardDeLaShithead]

DS (10) has been "gender non-conforming" since he was a toddler, and able to choose clothes and toys. We've generally just let him get on with it, not making a big deal about it, and letting him know that it's fine to be a boy and wear a dress/play with dolls etc. He's navigated his own way through all sorts of situations with ingenuity, and grim determination .

Anyway as he's getting older we're encountering more and more tricky situations. Toilets have been a sticking point, although we've mostly got round that by encouraging him to use "neutral" loos where possible. The school organised a meeting for us to discuss this, after an incident where he wet himself (after feeling uncomfortable/unwelcome in the boys' loos, but discouraged by me to use the girls' loos). He now uses the neutral loos at school.

Today though, I've come up against two dilemmas to do with sex /gender identity, and I'm just not sure what position to take. Firstly he goes to gymnastics in a mixed class. His teacher spoke up me after the class, referring to him as 'she' and taking about putting him forward to a (sex segregated) competition at some point in the future. I had registered him for the classes as a boy (obviously), but haven't had an explicit conversation about his gender. He does look "girly" (longish hair) so I completely understand why they're mistaken. I didn't correct the teacher in the moment, as it was in public and this is one thing (correcting people on his gender) that DS finds embarrassing. He doesn't mind being called he or she, but he does mind any "fuss" about it.

I then got home to find an email from his school about an initiative aimed at encouraging girls' confidence, and his teacher feels that he would like to do it. Argh. It's well-meaning, and I know comes from an understanding that his friends are nearly all girls, he looks like a girl, and he will feel left out if he isn't included. Obviously I'm very uncomfortable about this, but my heart is also aching for DS, because this will probably be difficult for him.

Basically if there wasn't such weird gender stereotyping in our society, I'm pretty sure DS would be happily rocking out as a girly boy, but because there is, he's being made to feel that to do the things he likes doing, he has to "be" a girl. It's so shit.

Anyway, I just feel so stuck as to how to do the right thing by DS. Any advice?

He has a penis. He is male.

He can wear whatever the fuck he likes.

He cannot compete in gym with females.

He can wear a leotard and stay in the boys squad.

For fucks sake.

What @LonginesPrime said. Tread with care, OP

As to why ds isn't being more assertive about correcting people, I suspect that he quite likes being mistaken for a girl.

He can like being mistaken for a girl yet not want to be a girl. Yet earlier you said he doesn’t like to correct people only because he doesn’t like the fuss it entails.

I also think you need to ensure you and your child are on the same page here.

What you have written sounds confusing. Perhaps that is just the way you have expressed it in your posts or perhaps it is still evolving.

Just for clarity, there's no way I would be allowing DS to compete in a girls' competition. And I'm pretty sure the gymnastics instructor wouldn't be suggesting it if she realised DS is a boy! I have no qualms about setting them straight on that, but in the moment I was in a hurry and somewhat taken by surprise, so didn't correct her.

Pattiprice, yes you're quite right. He can like being mistaken for a girl without wanting to be a girl. And you're right about it being confusing, and that is evolving. I think I've got a clearer head about it for now though :-)

But surely you filled in a form stating he was a boy when he started gym?!

These two positions don’t sit well together for me.

Surely, if he was truly relaxed about it, and comfortable with who he is, he would also be comfortable telling people who he is?

This.

Trans women absolutely do compete in competitive sport in the women's category. google Rachel McKinnon.
Here's a link
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/46453958

OP I do wonder if DS actively encouraging use of female pronouns?

It might be conceivable that gym coach didn’t realise he’s a boy and hence mentioned the comp but school do know and so the fact they offered a place on a girls confidence course might make you think DS is asking to be seen as female at school?

Odd and wrong if they haven’t spoken to you directly about this though.

Elfdragon, yes this inconsistency (about what he says and what he feels) is becoming clearer to me, and definitely needs more discussion and guidance from me.

Ruffle row - yep.

Odd and wrong if they haven’t spoken to you directly about this though

But shockingly, in line with many schools' policies on this. Parents aren't informed if child in question requests that they are not.

it's been more like clumsy curiosity, or mild challenging eg "why you wearing girls shoes" etc (before I get any grief, they are dark blue flat ankle boots with my little ponies on, not stilettoes or anything).

this struck me. Surely these kinds of questions happen outside the loo too? I wonder if there is something more going on in the boys' bathroom that is making him intimidated. I think you should delve into this a bit more.

The school staff are lovely. I definitely don't think they're trying to push a "trans agenda" or that they'd be "going behind my back" with any of this.

I'm amazed that there are so many people in your ds' life who've never heard of gender-nonconformity! What decade would you have had to have grown up in never to have seen either: Prince, Bowie, Annie Lennox, Little Richard, Suede, Hendrix, Skunk Anansie, Grace Jones, Kurt-Cobain-in-a-pretty-dress etc etc even once on tv when you were growing up? Or even as an adult?! I can't even imagine what it's like to honestly believe that clothes are intrinsically linked to genitalia and chromosomes! Weird.

I think you need to do as you have been doing but gently correct people who state he is a girl. I know he doesnt want a fuss, but you as the adult understand the bigger picture. He hasn't said he wants to be referred to as 'she' and so I dont think he should be pushed down that route just because a few adults are misreading the situation. If he had asked to he referred to as she, that would be different.

I dont think its sensible for him to compete with girls. He might look like a girl but once puberty hits he will be built differently to them. If he were to stick with gymnastics there might come a point where other competitors weren't ok with it or he felt uncomfortable.

I'm with the other posters who suggest the simple answer to this is a good short hair cut. If he wants long hair later on, it'll grow again. But, for now, maybe it's better to shave his head and stop all this chatter.

Yes, I've RTFT, and I've heard all the stuff about regressive stereotypes, he should be what he wants to be, blah blah, but there's no reason why it has to be your son who's the social justice warrior/trailblazer. Let somebody else do all that. Cut his hair. Stop buying him 'girl's' boots. problem solved.

The school staff are lovely. I definitely don't think they're trying to push a "trans agenda" or that they'd be "going behind my back" with any of this

Fair enough, but for it to have got to a point where they're suggesting he does courses for girls, he's clearly being regarded as a trans child by at least some of the staff.

If they haven't already sought advice on how to support your DS, they will do so, and regardless of how nice the school staff are, the resources that are currently considered 'best practice' for schools with trans kids probably won't align with your thinking on gender, given what you've said.

I would check out Stonewall's and Mermaid's resources for schools so you can understand the kind of advice the school might be following. Forewarned is forearmed, and all that.

Then we'll see you over on the feminism board!

I tend to agree with @niceclock, TBH. If there is confusion then perhaps some subtle changes in appearance (shoes, etc.) would help clarify matters. It may also help if there is a suggestion of bullying from other boys. Perhaps sad that it's necessary.

I do feel strongly that he shouldn't be competing in a female sports classification, and shouldn't take the place of a female student on the initiative that school mentioned.

In with inwood.

Nice and simple.

Or is that just me

My DD (8) is a competitive gymnast and the boys and girls train separately. The only mixed classes are for the under 5s who don't really do "proper" gymnastics. The girls don't do the pommel horse or the rings, they do the high beam. And their floor routines are completely different with dancing incorporated into them. Gymnasts work so closely with their trainers that there's no way the trainer wouldn't know the sex unless they were very unobservant. What does he wear to gymnastics?

OP you sound like you are being so thoughtful and trying to steer the right path. The comments on the thread just show what a minefield this is at the moment.

I have an unconventional, creative, flamboyant DS who is in his teens now. When he hit puberty it became obvious he is gay (he says so too in case anyone thinks I’m making assumptions).

In primary he did a lot of dance and was the only boy there. Now he does another hobby which is majority female. Fine.

He sometimes wears nail varnish (fine) but not to school if I spot it as I did same with other D.C. I did post on the deleted thread that we have tried to support his love of colourful clothes by expanding his vintage clothes collection. He enjoys the positive attention for his rather fine fashion sense. We are trying to help him see that he doesn’t need to “be a girl” to enjoy the stuff he likes doing.

Not sure if that’s any help with your dilemma. It is hard if your child does not fit the narrow stereotypes and it is head spinningly difficult to know what to do for the best never mind try to manage everyone else.

Hmm, his feelings on the matter don’t actually sound very clear. And as ‘nice’ as the school staff are, they may be misguided and following guidelines you aren’t aware of.

My son was/is this way to some extent. Long blonde ringlets, joined the school dance group, is a gymnast and chooses pink and purple clothes occasionally. He’s twelve now. When mistaken for a girl, he would just make it clear that he’s a boy. He loved dancing and competes in gymnastics. He seemed to particularly love being the only boy in the dance group as it guaranteed him lots of attention from girls!

But he is a very confident child and I suspect he likes being seen as ‘different’ to other kids and having a no shits given attitude. Though I know he sometimes does care... We needed to buy him a pair of wellies in a hurry and he had limited options. He chose a pair of pink, sparkly ones. He recently wore them on a trip with children at school he didn’t know that well, but originally got upset and worried about it and said he wanted some normal ones. He then kind of tested the water by jokily mentioning them and decided to wear them after all. He can be quite attention seeking and likes to be thought of as a bit mad, I think. Quite difficult for me to navigate at times.

But I could also imagine a child being very uncomfortable with correcting an adult. I was very much like that as a child, hated to draw attention or speak out in front of people. I even used to wear my coat I doors at all times because I felt embarrassed to take my coat off and have people look at me. My coat was my safety blanket!

My husband occasionally gets mistaken for a woman, even though he has facial hair. He has long hair and is very slim and sort of graceful looking. He doesn’t have that... physical arrogance? that many men seem to give off. Not sure how to describe it. He has been referred to as a lady from the beck or when seen out the corner of an eye. He just looks confused and they usually spot the beard and look embarrassed. At some point, your son will go through puberty and there will be no confusion.

Do you register him with his gender neutral nickname or "masculine" full name?
The toilet issue is the biggest problem that I can see. The other 10yo need to be told that it is completely unacceptable to make your son (a boy) feel uncomfortable in the boys loos.
Is it possible that he's asked some adults to use she?
I would be correcting everyone on the pronoun thing because I think you're steering your son to declaring himself non-binary or trans in the future when it's more likely he's a boy who likes feminine things. (I say more likely as I suspect that feminine boys outnumber boys/men who are non-binary or trans

OP, I appreciate that you are taking in the messages you are getting here--that is really brave and hard to do, so kudos to you. It does indeed sound as if a significant amount of the confusion that people are having about your son is coming from him directly. And because this is an era where people can lose their jobs for "misgendering" a student, teachers and other adults would be very likely to go out of their way to be careful around a child who had an ambiguous gender identity. This could give a child a subtle but gratifying sense of power over the adults in his life. Being different is fine, but there's no reason that kids should be rewarded for being "different" any more than they should be rewarded for being conventional. They all deserve decent treatment for being themselves. Right now, we live in a world where switching genders gives kids all kinds of extra perks, and that is not healthy.